New Food For Theodore

[GaryT]

Theo was having bouts of diarrhea (not fun with a long hair cat ...) and was not eating much of his dry food (Taste of the Wild) so I decided to try a different dry food. A Petco staff person suggested I try this food. He LOVES this new food and his stools are solid again. Have any of you tried this from Petco. It says grain free but it does have veggies & fruit in ingredients. He also gets raw beef (Blueridge Beef") and pate.
"Regional Red"
ORIJEN Regional Red Cat Food | More Than Just Grain-Free

 

[verna davies]

Glad Theo likes his new food, hope it cures the problem.

 

[daftcat75]

Blue Ridge Beef products aren't nutritionally complete and balanced foods. You'll need to take care to either limit how much he gets (no more than 10% of his diet should be unbalanced) or you can buy a premix to balance it yourself. If it's boneless beef, EZ Complete is probably the easiest as you can balance it one meal at a time. If the beef has bones, you'll need to look for a mix that doesn't provide a calcium supplement. You may have to add liver to some of these mixes.

Boneless:
Food Fur Life - EZ Homemade raw food for pets!

Better in the Raw for Cats

A Guide To A Balanced, Homemade Cat Food - Alnutrin Supplements
(You will need to add liver. Fortunately beef liver can be found in the frozen section of many supermarkets.)

TCfeline products
(They have with and without liver formulas. You will need to add liver to the one that doesn't include it.)

For meat and bone:
A Guide To A Balanced, Homemade Cat Food - Alnutrin Supplements
(Liver needs to be added)

 

[KarenKat]

I think it looks great! I think the fruits and veggies provide some of the supplements and vitamins that are normally added straight, and they are very low on the ingredients list along with peas. No potatoes at all, which I love. Glad Theo likes it!

 

[GaryT]

This is what is in his beef. He gets the "Kitten Grind". He also gets the dry and pate (1/2 a small can).Oh, and his diarrhea is gone now that he is on the new dry food.
Ground Beef
Protein- 20.41%
Fat- 3.01%
Fiber- .43%
Ash- 1.33%
Moisture- 76.53%
Calcium- 9.06 mg/100g
Phosphorus- 208 mg/100g
926 kcal/kg

 

[daftcat75]

This is what is in his beef. He gets the "Kitten Grind". He also gets the dry and pate (1/2 a small can).Oh, and his diarrhea is gone now that he is on the new dry food.
Ground Beef
Protein- 20.41%
Fat- 3.01%
Fiber- .43%
Ash- 1.33%
Moisture- 76.53%
Calcium- 9.06 mg/100g
Phosphorus- 208 mg/100g
926 kcal/kg

That’s just ground beef. That needs to be balanced. For starters, it has no taurine and not enough calcium.

EZ Complete will be the easiest. But he may not like the taste. It has chicken liver in it.

Or you can get beef liver at the grocery store (fresh or frozen) and use an Alnutrin with calcium to make a balanced cat food.

 

[Azazel]

This is what is in his beef. He gets the "Kitten Grind". He also gets the dry and pate (1/2 a small can).Oh, and his diarrhea is gone now that he is on the new dry food.
Ground Beef
Protein- 20.41%
Fat- 3.01%
Fiber- .43%
Ash- 1.33%
Moisture- 76.53%
Calcium- 9.06 mg/100g
Phosphorus- 208 mg/100g
926 kcal/kg

Are you feeding supermarket ground beef raw? Pre-ground supermarket meat should never be fed raw to cats as it contains a high amount of bacteria. Any raw meat should be from whole cuts without added sodium or spices.

If you're cooking the beef, then this would be considered a treat and shouldn't make up more than 10% of the daily diet as it is not nutritionally complete.

 

[GaryT]

Are you feeding supermarket ground beef raw? Pre-ground supermarket meat should never be fed raw to cats as it contains a high amount of bacteria. Any raw meat should be from whole cuts without added sodium or spices.

If you're cooking the beef, then this would be considered a treat and shouldn't make up more than 10% of the daily diet as it is not nutritionally complete.

I feed him what the breeder started him on. Blueridge Beef.
Kitten Grind | BlueRidgeBeef
He also gets the dry and half a small can of pate

 

[daftcat75]

Have you sent for samples or ordered some vitamin mixes yet?

I know "beating a dead horse", "broken record", etc, but that kitten grind is not a complete food.

 

[Azazel]

I feed him what the breeder started him on. Blueridge Beef.
Kitten Grind | BlueRidgeBeef
He also gets the dry and half a small can of pate

Oh I see. It's a kitten grind so it should be fine it terms of bacteria load since it's not supermarket ground beef. Not sure about it being nutritiously complete though. I think people who feed these kinds of grinds usually feed a variety of different proteins and follow the philosophy that feeding a bunch of different whole animals should meet nutrition standards. Just feeding this beef grind alone though would leave a cat malnourished because it's not clear that it is nutritionally complete for a cat and the Ca-P ratio is not good at all. I would also worry that the bone content is too high.

 

[daftcat75]

Oh I see. It's a kitten grind so it should be fine it terms of bacteria load since it's not supermarket ground beef. Not sure about it being nutritiously complete though. I think people who feed these kinds of grinds usually feed a variety of different proteins and follow the philosophy that feeding a bunch of different whole animals should meet nutrition standards. Just feeding this beef grind alone though would leave a cat malnourished because it's not clear that it is nutritionally complete for a cat and the Ca-P ratio is not good at all. I would also worry that the bone content is too high.

The trouble I have with feeding an unbalanced food is that it is taking up a certain volume of his daily calories that a balanced food can occupy. 25%? 50%? I don't know. But if it's more than 10%, the other 90% probably cannot make up the difference without over-supplementation (which has its own problems and why we talk about "balanced" and not just "complete".)

 

[Azazel]

The trouble I have with feeding an unbalanced food is that it is taking up a certain volume of his daily calories that a balanced food can occupy. 25%? 50%? I don't know. But if it's more than 10%, the other 90% probably cannot make up the difference without over-supplementation (which has its own problems and why we talk about "balanced" and not just "complete".)

Yeah, in order for the philosophy of feeding a variety of proteins to work I think you really need to feed a lot of variety. It's basically the same philosophy that we use as humans to feed ourselves. We don't formulate 'complete meals' for ourselves, we just eat a lot of different nutritious things and assume that in the long run we will be getting all the nutrients we need. It's harder to do that with cats because they are obligate carnivores and most people don't want to feed things like dead mice. The other problem I see with the whole prey philosophy is that cats probably don't eat the entire prey in the wild. They leave a lot of the skin, fur, and bones and only take what they need. But when a manufacturer takes an entire chicken or rabbit and grinds it into a chub they have no choice but to eat the whole thing. They likely get way too much bone. Heck, even big cats like lions and tigers don't eat all of the bone in their prey.

But, the same malnutrition can happen in humans that restrict their diet to a few things and don't receive all proper nutrients. I think I read a new story this morning about a teenager losing his eyesight because he refused to eat anything but fries, sausage and pringles? Yikes.

 

[GaryT]

I was hoping he would get enough of what he needs from the dry and the can food. I also add a chicken flavored powder to his raw every morning (Angel's Eyes). I had some cheese flavored vitamin powder but the cheese affected him. He scratched off fur. so I stopped it and the mother's milk replacement powder. He seems in good shape and his fur is gorgeous. Good stools. VERY active.

 

[Azazel]

I was hoping he would get enough of what he needs from the dry and the can food. I also add a chicken flavored powder to his raw every morning (Angel's Eyes). I had some cheese flavored vitamin powder but the cheese affected him. He scratched off fur. so I stopped it and the mother's milk replacement powder. He seems in good shape and his fur is gorgeous. Good stools. VERY active.

If you're just giving a small amount of the beef chub every day I think it's fine. It's really about what portion of his overall diet it constitutes. What kind of vitamins are in the powder?

 

[daftcat75]

I was hoping he would get enough of what he needs from the dry and the can food.

Unless the unbalanced portion of his diet makes up no more than 10% of his daily calories, you cannot be sure that the rest of his diet will make up the difference. Especially because it is not all about topping off levels of missing nutrients but also getting them in the correct ratio. Cats should be getting roughly (a little less "roughly" with kidney disease) equal parts Calcium and Phosphorous. That grind is all phosphorous and almost no calcium.

The easiest way to fix this is to add a vitamin mix that is specifically designed for balancing boneless meat. Again, it's not about giving your cat a vitamin powder and hoping that's good enough. Either reduce the beef to no more than 10% of his calories, or commit to doing it right and balancing it correctly.

Your easiest would be EZ Complete which includes liver that's also missing from your chub of just beef. But cats are picky and EZ Complete also contains digestive enzymes which is not tolerated by all cats. Order a sample here:
Samples

And if that doesn't work, pick up some beef liver and order some samples of Alnutrin with calcium.
Know What You Feed Your Cat - Alnutrin Supplements - Free Samples

 

[CatLover49]

Yeah, in order for the philosophy of feeding a variety of proteins to work I think you really need to feed a lot of variety. It's basically the same philosophy that we use as humans to feed ourselves. We don't formulate 'complete meals' for ourselves, we just eat a lot of different nutritious things and assume that in the long run we will be getting all the nutrients we need. It's harder to do that with cats because they are obligate carnivores and most people don't want to feed things like dead mice. The other problem I see with the whole prey philosophy is that cats probably don't eat the entire prey in the wild. They leave a lot of the skin, fur, and bones and only take what they need. But when a manufacturer takes an entire chicken or rabbit and grinds it into a chub they have no choice but to eat the whole thing. They likely get way too much bone. Heck, even big cats like lions and tigers don't eat all of the bone in their prey.

But, the same malnutrition can happen in humans that restrict their diet to a few things and don't receive all proper nutrients. I think I read a new story this morning about a teenager losing his eyesight because he refused to eat anything but fries, sausage and pringles? Yikes.

I read that somewhere also....about the teenager....

 

[Talien]

One thing to watch for is mixing different kinds of foods can possibly leave a Cat with an upset stomach or digestive issues resulting in vomiting and/or diarrhea, especially if mixing dry with canned or raw. If a Cat is already prone to digestive issues that can make it worse, so if you notice his diarrhea returning you may want to consider taking him off dry food entirely and just feeding him canned to see if that makes any difference.