Malabsorption

[FeebysOwner]

Have you found out any results on Feeby? do you know how a PARR test is done. I tried to read about this but it didn't make sense to me. If this is a definite way to determine lymphoma why wouldn't the vet suggest this ?

I don't want to repeat information that you've received above but do want to talk a little bit more about the PARR test. It is essentially analyzing the tissue obtained from a FNA, via an ultrasound, and is looking for specific abnormal cell markers that can point to cancer. When the results of an ultrasound and subsequent FNA indicate conditions conducive to cancer the PARR is done to further assess the actual tissue obtained through the FNA. I am not an expert, but I do know the SCL (small cell lymphoma) forum considers this to be a stellar test for determining cancer. While there obviously can be negative tests that will not allow the medical world to entirely discount lymphoma, it seems to be a very helpful tool overall.

Feeby, btw, did not have the PARR done, as the specialist said that the FNA analysis didn't warrant it - meaning not enough reason to think the cells they collected were abnormal to the degree to point toward cancer. However, they still would not rule out lymphoma.

Are you sure she is allergic to chicken, and not some other product(s) in the foods you have tried? Maybe it would be worth it to try human chicken and see. There are supplements to add to human meats to make them nutritionally complete for a cat (EZ Complete is one of them). Nonetheless, there are limited ingredient canned foods that primarily consist of meats such as rabbit, lamb, venison, beef, and duck to name the main ones. Check this food chart out and see if that might help you select some possible options.
Check This Out.... Chart For Cat Food Ingredients | TheCatSite

 

[daftcat75]

If you’re in the US or Canada, Rawz makes excellent single protein pates that are free of chicken. I would also avoid fish if you can since that’s also a common trigger. Fancy Feast turkey has “poultry byproducts” and my IBD kitty told me on numerous occasions that “poultry by-products” include chicken. I would look at the Rawz turkey pate first. No hidden chicken and it will be easier to source than the rabbit. Krista did well on Rawz turkey until she didn’t. Then we switched to rabbit and that was hard to find a lot of the time. But it was as good as it got from a can.

If your girl is able to maintain or even gain weight, it’s probably not lymphoma. Yet. I recommend picking up a baby scale and weighing her no more frequently than once a week (for everyone’s sanity!) Preferably same time and place each week. Easy to do if she’s still readily interested in food or treats. When the weight loss is relentless and no amount of food or B12 seems to help, that’s a good indication that it’s become lymphoma.

In the meantime, food trials may still be helpful. Dry food has too many chicken, fish, and other nonsense and irritating ingredients to be useful for food trials.

Chicken is chicken. There’s no cat food chicken that’s different from human food chicken. This can make for an easy food trial if you can get Alnutrin and either fresh or freeze dried chicken liver. Combine chicken meat (boiled or raw) with chicken liver (fresh or freeze-dried at 1/3 the called for fresh amount) with the Alnutrin with Calcium (for meat without bones) to make a balanced and complete food without all the other gums and nonsense in commercial canned food. Feed that exclusively for a few weeks. If things get better, keep going. If they don’t, you can keep using the Alnutrin powder but switch the protein. You can get freeze dried liver in several different proteins usually in the dog training or dog treat section. As long as the only ingredient is the liver, it doesn’t matter that the label is dog.

 

[buffy2011]

I don't want to repeat information that you've received above but do want to talk a little bit more about the PARR test. It is essentially analyzing the tissue obtained from a FNA, via an ultrasound, and is looking for specific abnormal cell markers that can point to cancer. When the results of an ultrasound and subsequent FNA indicate conditions conducive to cancer the PARR is done to further assess the actual tissue obtained through the FNA. I am not an expert, but I do know the SCL (small cell lymphoma) forum considers this to be a stellar test for determining cancer. While there obviously can be negative tests that will not allow the medical world to entirely discount lymphoma, it seems to be a very helpful tool overall.

Feeby, btw, did not have the PARR done, as the specialist said that the FNA analysis didn't warrant it - meaning not enough reason to think the cells they collected were abnormal to the degree to point toward cancer. However, they still would not rule out lymphoma.

Are you sure she is allergic to chicken, and not some other product(s) in the foods you have tried? Maybe it would be worth it to try human chicken and see. There are supplements to add to human meats to make them nutritionally complete for a cat (EZ Complete is one of them). Nonetheless, there are limited ingredient canned foods that primarily consist of meats such as rabbit, lamb, venison, beef, and duck to name the main ones. Check this food chart out and see if that might help you select some possible options.
Check This Out.... Chart For Cat Food Ingredients | TheCatSite

My cat just vomited again, so I got on the internet and started reading articles. I had thought she tolerated food better when it was cold. but I just read not to refrigerate her food. So that is one mistake I made. Also I am cutting out the dry, had problems with dry all her life. Not sure about the food allergies but she never liked the chicken fancy feast, but after this spell we had months ago when she started turning up her nose at the food she always ate, her two favorites she would not eat anymore. If she ate it she really got sick. So I even called the company at the time thinking they changed things because of the pandemic. So I started feeding the other flavors. So mostly it was the chicken and turkey, that we are down to. But once in a while I throw in the fish and salmon. Not sure really what makes her sick, I am trying to really find out. I just don't want to stress her out with so many tests that she goes down hill. Right after she vomits she sits by her bowl and wants food again. If I don't put something in the bowl she will go around and eat things off the floor. I have to really watch there are no leaves from a plant or something that she will eat. Not sure if this makes sense but I look at the color and try to figure out which food she ate, thinking maybe eliminate that one. Not sure. I just gave her human chicken, I keep it cooked all the time for her, and she really wants it , so does that mean she isn't allergic to chicken if that goes down ok. I do refrigerate the chicken, so should it be room temp also? This is what I don't understand. She eats her food, everything is ok. Later that night she is laying on my lap and all of a sudden she jumps up and vomits. Why so long after she eats. After that I know she is going to have diarrhea. They come at the same time. I am going to buy some rabbit, duck, something on that order as soon as I get to the pet store. I will check out the chart you sent.

 

[buffy2011]

If you’re in the US or Canada, Rawz makes excellent single protein pates that are free of chicken. I would also avoid fish if you can since that’s also a common trigger. Fancy Feast turkey has “poultry byproducts” and my IBD kitty told me on numerous occasions that “poultry by-products” include chicken. I would look at the Rawz turkey pate first. No hidden chicken and it will be easier to source than the rabbit. Krista did well on Rawz turkey until she didn’t. Then we switched to rabbit and that was hard to find a lot of the time. But it was as good as it got from a can.

If your girl is able to maintain or even gain weight, it’s probably not lymphoma. Yet. I recommend picking up a baby scale and weighing her no more frequently than once a week (for everyone’s sanity!) Preferably same time and place each week. Easy to do if she’s still readily interested in food or treats. When the weight loss is relentless and no amount of food or B12 seems to help, that’s a good indication that it’s become lymphoma.

In the meantime, food trials may still be helpful. Dry food has too many chicken, fish, and other nonsense and irritating ingredients to be useful for food trials.

Chicken is chicken. There’s no cat food chicken that’s different from human food chicken. This can make for an easy food trial if you can get Alnutrin and either fresh or freeze dried chicken liver. Combine chicken meat (boiled or raw) with chicken liver (fresh or freeze-dried at 1/3 the called for fresh amount) with the Alnutrin with Calcium (for meat without bones) to make a balanced and complete food without all the other gums and nonsense in commercial canned food. Feed that exclusively for a few weeks. If things get better, keep going. If they don’t, you can keep using the Alnutrin powder but switch the protein. You can get freeze dried liver in several different proteins usually in the dog training or dog treat section. As long as the only ingredient is the liver, it doesn’t matter that the label is dog.

So your saying to get fresh or freeze dried chicken liver, boiled or raw boneless chicken, and to buy Alnutrin with Calicum. I'm confused about what the 1/3 means. So do I grind this all up and put this Alnutrin in? How much Alnutrin do I use? I am going to try anything. The last time we were at the vets she weighed. 6.90 and then she started this issue now, and went down to 6.22. So now she is getting the B12 shots and hopefully less vomiting and diarrhea and she went to 6.26 and then 6.56 her last visit, this week. So she can gain weight if she doesn't have the vomiting and diarrhea. She is weighed every week there along with her shots. So I have been trying to figure out what is causing this for a long time. The vets work with me, but they want to just test, test, test. She will never make it if we do all these test. Thanks for the information.

 

[FeebysOwner]

My cat just vomited again, so I got on the internet and started reading articles. I had thought she tolerated food better when it was cold. but I just read not to refrigerate her food. So that is one mistake I made.

Never heard that one - and actually don't even agree at all! Ever since Feeby has been on canned food, she will gladly eat it right out of the fridge - with no problem. A lot of cats won't do that, but I can't imagine what the issue would be for those cats who will.

If I don't put something in the bowl she will go around and eat things off the floor. I have to really watch there are no leaves from a plant or something that she will eat. Not sure if this makes sense but I look at the color and try to figure out which food she ate, thinking maybe eliminate that one. Not sure. I just gave her human chicken, I keep it cooked all the time for her, and she really wants it , so does that mean she isn't allergic to chicken if that goes down ok. I do refrigerate the chicken, so should it be room temp also? This is what I don't understand. She eats her food, everything is ok. Later that night she is laying on my lap and all of a sudden she jumps up and vomits. Why so long after she eats.

Again, it varies by cat and the reason behind the vomiting, but I do feed Feeby right after she has thrown up, because her stomach is empty, and she is hungry. But, Feeby's vomiting spells are few and far between, so I just consider them to be flukes.

A cat can be allergic to a food that they like. But If your cat does not vomit when fed human chicken, then chicken is probably not the issue. I can't explain the delay between eating and vomiting. And, as I said, it will vary by cat and the reason for the vomiting, but when Feeby has thrown up it is generally a few hours after she has eaten and the food is essentially 'digested'.

 

[daftcat75]

My cat just vomited again, so I got on the internet and started reading articles. I had thought she tolerated food better when it was cold. but I just read not to refrigerate her food. So that is one mistake I made. Also I am cutting out the dry, had problems with dry all her life. Not sure about the food allergies but she never liked the chicken fancy feast, but after this spell we had months ago when she started turning up her nose at the food she always ate, her two favorites she would not eat anymore. If she ate it she really got sick. So I even called the company at the time thinking they changed things because of the pandemic. So I started feeding the other flavors. So mostly it was the chicken and turkey, that we are down to. But once in a while I throw in the fish and salmon. Not sure really what makes her sick, I am trying to really find out. I just don't want to stress her out with so many tests that she goes down hill. Right after she vomits she sits by her bowl and wants food again. If I don't put something in the bowl she will go around and eat things off the floor. I have to really watch there are no leaves from a plant or something that she will eat. Not sure if this makes sense but I look at the color and try to figure out which food she ate, thinking maybe eliminate that one. Not sure. I just gave her human chicken, I keep it cooked all the time for her, and she really wants it , so does that mean she isn't allergic to chicken if that goes down ok. I do refrigerate the chicken, so should it be room temp also? This is what I don't understand. She eats her food, everything is ok. Later that night she is laying on my lap and all of a sudden she jumps up and vomits. Why so long after she eats. After that I know she is going to have diarrhea. They come at the same time. I am going to buy some rabbit, duck, something on that order as soon as I get to the pet store. I will check out the chart you sent.

If she isn’t throwing up the homemade chicken, it may not be the chicken that’s upsetting her gut. You can pick up a vitamin premix powder like EZ Complete or Alnutrin to make a nutritionally balanced and complete food out of homemade chicken. EZ Complete will be easiest as you can portion it down to a single meal and you don’t have to deal with fresh or freeze dried liver. EZ however has green lipped mussels which can upset a cat’s tummy. So if EZ doesn’t agree with her, chicken still might be okay. Alnutrin with calcium will be more flexible. If you do suspect a chicken allergy/intolerance, you can use Alnutrin with other proteins.

A lot of the time it isn’t the protein that’s the problem but all the other non-animal nonsense in cat foods: grains, starches, gums, fruits (pumpkin excepted), veggies, gums and thickeners. Yes I mentioned gums twice because they are often overlooked. Guar gum will be the most benign with agar agar and carrageenan being the most irritating. Xanthan gum makes smooth foods smooth. And for cats (and people) who are sensitive to it, it also makes their poops smooth. It is entirely possible that xanthan gum (or carrageenan/agar agar) is the source of all her grief. If you can try chicken with Alnutrin or another protein with Alnutrin, that would cut out a lot of nonsense and get straight to the point of whether it’s chicken to blame or not.

 

[daftcat75]

So your saying to get fresh or freeze dried chicken liver, boiled or raw boneless chicken, and to buy Alnutrin with Calicum. I'm confused about what the 1/3 means. So do I grind this all up and put this Alnutrin in? How much Alnutrin do I use? I am going to try anything. The last time we were at the vets she weighed. 6.90 and then she started this issue now, and went down to 6.22. So now she is getting the B12 shots and hopefully less vomiting and diarrhea and she went to 6.26 and then 6.56 her last visit, this week. So she can gain weight if she doesn't have the vomiting and diarrhea. She is weighed every week there along with her shots. So I have been trying to figure out what is causing this for a long time. The vets work with me, but they want to just test, test, test. She will never make it if we do all these test. Thanks for the information.

A lot of folks don’t like dealing with fresh liver because it’s kinda slimy. If you don’t want to deal with fresh liver or you can’t source it easily or you just want a convenient option, you can use freeze dried liver at 1/3 the amount the Alnutrin recipe calls for. If the Alnutrin asks for 45 grams of fresh liver, use 15 grams of freeze dried instead. The 1/3 is accounting for the loss of water weight in the freeze drying process. Alnutrin website and package will detail the amounts to use. I believe it is typically 1 lb of meat to 45 gram of liver (or 15 grams freeze dried) and a measure of the Alnutrin powder. Even though you are starting with cooked chicken, I recommend freezing it and the liver if you are using fresh. Freeze it for a couple of hours or longer. The reason for freezing is that if you try to grind the meat and liver while it’s room or fridge temp, it will turn into an unappetizing pink slime. Freezing it first makes for a better grind. You can use a food processor to grind. A meat grinder can also be used. I recommend purchasing a manual grinder like this one before spending hundreds of dollars on an electric meat grinder. Grow into the need of an electric grinder by proving it out a few times on the manual. Make sure homemade will work for her before spending ultrasound money on a grinder.
Weston #10 Manual Tinned Meat Grinder and Sausage Stuffer , 4.5mm & 10mm plates, + 3 sausage funnels,Silver https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQSW44/?tag=thecatsite

 

[daftcat75]

Some other helpful tips in case you don't already know:

1. Warm food aka "prey temperature" (lukewarm) is tolerated better than cold food. If your girl has problems with leftovers from the fridge, you can scoop the portion into a baggie and press it flat before sealing (the flatter you can press it, the faster this next step goes.) Either submerge the flat and sealed baggie into a hot water bath or run it under hot/warm water while pressing out all the cold spots. I like to just stick it in the hot water bath and give it a few minutes to soak and then get the last of the cold out under a warm water stream.

2. If you make homemade food like above, I recommend measuring out the portions into plastic baggies, pressing them flat as you can before sealing them, and then freezing the whole batch. Using the hot water method above, it adds another minute or two of soak to go from freezer to plate. But it makes the batch last longer if you aren't keeping it in the fridge. It also allows you to skip days without throwing out thawed portions if homemade isn't all she gets. I am currently running into this issue with my nibbler, Betty. Many times she won't eat more than a quarter to a half ounce at a time. So I portioned commercial raw (Lotus) into half ounce baggies and can go from freezer to plate in just a few minutes soak plus maybe another 30 to 60 seconds of actively pressing cold spots out under warm/hot water.

3. Older cats but also cats with digestive issues (like yours) will do better with smaller meals, fed more often. If she got fed twice a day all her life, it may be time to spread the same amount of food across four or six meals a day. Having less food to digest each meal will also increase the odds that it will stay down.

4. You can use timed feeders to cover meal times you won't be around or awake for (daytime/overnight.) I prefer the clamshell feeders over the wheel feeders as you can set individual schedules for each individual feeder. Whereas a wheel, if the cat doesn't eat a portion in the prescribed time, it is rotated away back inside the feeder. If you want to enforce time limits on portions, that's what the wheel is good for. But if you don't want your girl to sleep through meals, you should use the clamshells that remain accessible once opened.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075PPCPJL/?tag=thecatsite

5. Optagest digestive enzymes. Try this in the spirit of "might help, probably won't hurt." It's not going to cure anything. But it could provide a helping hand.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002YGORPW/?tag=thecatsite

6. With supplements like above and any others you may try, it's helpful to start low and slow. These nip-smidgen-pinch-dash spoons help you measure amounts smaller than 1/8 tsp. I think the nip might be 1/32 or 1/64 with each larger spoon doubling the one before it. I have a three spoon set (no nip) that starts at 1/32 for the smidgen, 1/16 for the pinch, and 1/8 for the dash. Anything new that went into Krista's food (and now Betty, she gets some digestive enzymes and egg yolk powder), I always started with the smallest spoon and gave it a poop or two to make sure it's not making things worse before going to the next larger spoon.

 

[buffy2011]

Some other helpful tips in case you don't already know:

1. Warm food aka "prey temperature" (lukewarm) is tolerated better than cold food. If your girl has problems with leftovers from the fridge, you can scoop the portion into a baggie and press it flat before sealing (the flatter you can press it, the faster this next step goes.) Either submerge the flat and sealed baggie into a hot water bath or run it under hot/warm water while pressing out all the cold spots. I like to just stick it in the hot water bath and give it a few minutes to soak and then get the last of the cold out under a warm water stream.

2. If you make homemade food like above, I recommend measuring out the portions into plastic baggies, pressing them flat as you can before sealing them, and then freezing the whole batch. Using the hot water method above, it adds another minute or two of soak to go from freezer to plate. But it makes the batch last longer if you aren't keeping it in the fridge. It also allows you to skip days without throwing out thawed portions if homemade isn't all she gets. I am currently running into this issue with my nibbler, Betty. Many times she won't eat more than a quarter to a half ounce at a time. So I portioned commercial raw (Lotus) into half ounce baggies and can go from freezer to plate in just a few minutes soak plus maybe another 30 to 60 seconds of actively pressing cold spots out under warm/hot water.

3. Older cats but also cats with digestive issues (like yours) will do better with smaller meals, fed more often. If she got fed twice a day all her life, it may be time to spread the same amount of food across four or six meals a day. Having less food to digest each meal will also increase the odds that it will stay down.

4. You can use timed feeders to cover meal times you won't be around or awake for (daytime/overnight.) I prefer the clamshell feeders over the wheel feeders as you can set individual schedules for each individual feeder. Whereas a wheel, if the cat doesn't eat a portion in the prescribed time, it is rotated away back inside the feeder. If you want to enforce time limits on portions, that's what the wheel is good for. But if you don't want your girl to sleep through meals, you should use the clamshells that remain accessible once opened.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075PPCPJL/?tag=thecatsite

5. Optagest digestive enzymes. Try this in the spirit of "might help, probably won't hurt." It's not going to cure anything. But it could provide a helping hand.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002YGORPW/?tag=thecatsite

6. With supplements like above and any others you may try, it's helpful to start low and slow. These nip-smidgen-pinch-dash spoons help you measure amounts smaller than 1/8 tsp. I think the nip might be 1/32 or 1/64 with each larger spoon doubling the one before it. I have a three spoon set (no nip) that starts at 1/32 for the smidgen, 1/16 for the pinch, and 1/8 for the dash. Anything new that went into Krista's food (and now Betty, she gets some digestive enzymes and egg yolk powder), I always started with the smallest spoon and gave it a poop or two to make sure it's not making things worse before going to the next larger spoon.

Saccharomyces boulardii, Optagest, egg yolk powder, which one is the better to give, I have a probiotic from Chewy, I hate to keep wasting money. But I would rather start with the best. I heard about this egg yolk and was going to make some. Can you buy this? I do have a grinder, and I do have a programmable bowl for her. I just can't figure out how to use it yet. Also she never had a feeding time. There was always food out for her. When the bowl was empty and they starting hollering I would give them more. So now she wants to eat non stop, but the B12 is giving her an appetite too. I spread her food all over the plate today for her. She's probably wondering what the heck is this. She does eat fast I do know that. I did buy a bowl with nubs inside and use to put her dry food in but she could get it out pretty fast. I am going to look into the spoons too. If these things have a taste to them she knows it and won't eat the food.

 

[daftcat75]

Saccharomyces boulardii, Optagest, egg yolk powder, which one is the better to give, I have a probiotic from Chewy, I hate to keep wasting money. But I would rather start with the best. I heard about this egg yolk and was going to make some. Can you buy this? I do have a grinder, and I do have a programmable bowl for her. I just can't figure out how to use it yet. Also she never had a feeding time. There was always food out for her. When the bowl was empty and they starting hollering I would give them more. So now she wants to eat non stop, but the B12 is giving her an appetite too. I spread her food all over the plate today for her. She's probably wondering what the heck is this. She does eat fast I do know that. I did buy a bowl with nubs inside and use to put her dry food in but she could get it out pretty fast. I am going to look into the spoons too. If these things have a taste to them she knows it and won't eat the food.

I'm not familiar with that product.

Egg yolk powder is a mild laxative used for hairball control. I don't know that you should be using egg yolk powder here.

s. boulardii will help if she's taking an antibiotic or has a gut bug. You can certainly try it for IBD/lymphoma or use it on the regular. If it helps, keep using it. This one has a bready taste to it. But many cats enjoy the taste.

Optagest is probably going to be the easiest to add to her food. It doesn't have a taste, as far as I know. I actually haven't tasted this one. But it also doesn't get rejected when I mix it with food.

If you already have the s. boulardii, I would start there at about 1/4 to 1/2 capsule twice a day. Mix it with food if she'll eat it. Otherwise you can buy gelatin capsules and re-pack them into something easier for a cat to eat. If you get the tiniest capsules, you may be able to hide them in the food and see if she'll eat the capsule straight. There's nothing in that capsule that can't be eaten on its own.

Some pet food stores sell Optagest in sample packs. If yours does, pick up a few packets and see what she thinks. If she'll eat it, you may have to give it regularly for awhile for the pre-biotic to do its thing (colonize good bacteria.) This one won't be a miracle cure. But it could be a helping hand.

Finally, there's lithothamnium which is a calcium supplement that will help absorb water in her stools. It may help dry up the diarrhea. But it doesn't fix the underlying condition. It's also easy to overdo this and cause constipation. So get the small spoons and start with the smallest spoon. Give it a full poop cycle before you adjust.

Calcium Supplement for Cats | Lithothamnium, Sea | Vitality Science

These are just assists. She still needs an ultrasound to know what we're really dealing with.