Is This Cruelty & Abuse?

[maggie101]

No.She is not nauseous that bad.
My battle is getting her to eat renal wet food. RC was the first..no joy. I have spent literally a few hundred dollars on renal variety packs and prescription 24 can orders only to either toss them out or sit in my pantry. Something is in those foods that makes her think there is poison in it. I have even hidden a tiny bit under her regular food ,she goes to the bowl,sniffs and turns away! Can't see it but picked up the scent. Then if I empty and wash her bowl and give her more of the Purina she eats it. I AM EXAUSTED.

I am so sorry you are going through this! When my vet thought she had ckd, he gave me a few cans of purina pro plan NF. She did not like it til I mixed in freeze dried orijen treats and weruva. I checked purina pro plan essentials and it is high in phosphorus. I found that out by reading reviews on chewy

 

[GranolaLouise]

I know. That is why I am frantic for her to get off the Purina pro and fancy feast and get on a lower phos food even if it is not prescription strength lower. But I have just about tried them all and she'd rather starve. That was the reason for my initial post. Thank God she eats the renal kibble with tuna. Now I have to figure out another meat or fish to cook and trick her into eating more of it. She pukes up toppers like Churu and even hates baby food. I am going to get some chicken breast and boil it and see if she will eat that shredded and ground up in the blended kibble wet mash. She likes chicken in the canned purinas.

 

[silent meowlook]

Why don’t you add a phosphate binder to her food?

 

[GranolaLouise]

I am just hearing about such a thing. I will search tomorrow when I am on my desktop .

 

[FeebysOwner]

Only add a phosphorus binder if her kidney values warrant it. You will also need to have to blood work redone about 3 weeks after starting them to make sure the phosphorus level is appropriate.

 

[GranolaLouise]

Creat 2.6
BUN 46
Phos 4.4

Does this warrant it in comparison with others who are giving it??

 

[FeebysOwner]

According to the IRIS (International Renal Interest Society) basic guidelines, not really (see below). She is nearly borderline, but you might want to wait until her numbers are a bit higher. You are already getting her to eat renal kibble, and the fact that you are adding water is good. I don't know how long she has been on this food, but you might want to have blood work done to see where her levels are before adding a phosphorus binder. If you are worried about the kibble swelling up in her belly, you could try to crush it before adding water. The crumbled pieces are less likely to 'swell'.

Stage of CKD​	Creatinine Level in mg/dl​	Phosphorus Goal​
IRIS Stage 2​	Between 1.6 and 2.8​	2.7 - 4.59 mg/dl​
IRIS Stage 3​	Between 2.9 and 5.0​	Below 5.0 mg/dl​
IRIS Stage 4​	Over 5.0​	Below 6.0 mg/dl​

I encourage you to spend some time reading all about CKD at Tanya's web site - Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat (felinecrf.org). It is loaded with so much good information about treating/taking care of CKD cats. Some people are intimidated by all the information; but trust me, it is worth it to get passed that and start taking a section or two at a time to look through. You can look at the topics covered and first read the ones that most interest you. Reading those will make you want to read more!

 

[lisahe]

I encourage you to spend some time reading all about CKD at Tanya's web site - Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat (felinecrf.org). It is loaded with so much good information about treating/taking care of CKD cats. Some people are intimidated by all the information; but trust me, it is worth it to get passed that and start taking a section or two at a time to look through. You can look at the topics covered and first read the ones that most interest you. Reading those will make you want to read more!

I so agree with everything FeebysOwner says here about Tanya's site. When we had a kidney cat I focused on two or three things, particularly the food charts. Our cat's blood tests results were also borderline so my goal was to reduce her phosphorus intake with commercial foods... however I could since Brooksie just didn't have much of an appetite. What was most surprising was that some of the foods I least expected her to eat (Weruva's Steak Frites, Wellness Core pate with venison, Merrick's Cowboy Cookout) were her favorites in her last months. I, too, spent a lot on a huge variety of canned food but was ultimately able to find things that worked. (Her digestive issues were much worse than her relatively mild kidney disease.)

 

[sivyaleah]

Tanya's site was invaluable to us.
I would never try to starve a cat for a day to force it to eat. That's a recipe (no pun intended) for possible disaster.
We never even went down the renal diet route. Just found lower phosphorous foods he would eat; the already mentioned Weruva, Merricks and regular Fancy Feast classics.
Being nauseous can make cats not want to eat either, so he was on 1/4 Cerenia for a few days at a time and then we'd stop for a week or so. Start again if he needed.
He was also getting regular fluids 2x a week.
There are other things you can add into the routine which can all be found on Tanya's site. We had pretty good luck with our boy keeping him going for several years, fairly stable for the most part.

 

[Mighty Orange]

Did the binder work to prolong life?

She lived 2 more years. In the end she died at 17 years old. Was from hyper thyroid. She would not take a pill the vet did not tell me about compounding the drug so we could add it to her ears.

 

[ailish]

O. I've written about it before. THE UNIVERSAL PROBLEM. Renal cats won;t eat renal foods.
I am at my whit's end and don;t know what to do after trying everything under the sun.
Today..another order from Chewy which she refused, but I thank God, got a refund. Chewy is good.
it seems the only food I can get her to eat is Hill's prescription kd dry, soaked in hot water , and blended in the bullet with tuna to make a mash. Then I sprinkle a little tuna and juice on top. She will eat it till she pukes,can't get enough. BUT tuna is horrible for cats and I can't her to eat it with anything else.

but,, I read this on Quora and am pasting it here and asking if you think it is abuse and if it will make my cat sick if I try it with renal wet I have in the house that she walks away from.?
What say You?
"
How to get her to eat? Simple. Offer the cat food. After 2 hours, pick it up. No kibble stays out for grazing. 3 hours later, try again. If she still refuses, remove the food.

If this is happening at night, she has until bedtime. Then she is S.O.L. until morning.

In the morning, offer the same food. Make sure it's warm. She has until you go to work. When it's time to go, bowl comes up and she goes without until supper. Try a different flavour. Same deal.

I guarantee she will eat before the week ends. She will cry and tell you how cruel you are. She is lying."

I never get this thing with giving cats artificial eating deadlines. My cat has meal times. I give her food at mealtimes, wet in three of her four meals. It sits there until the next mealtime, at which point anything left gets tossed and she gets a new meal. That sits there until the next meal, then gets tossed. I toss very little food because she pretty much finishes a meal over time and her bowl is clean before the next meal. Sometimes she eats it all when I give it to her. Other times she looks at it like I gave her poison and walks away. 99 times out of 100 she eats it eventually. Why do cats have to eat food in two hours (or whatever) or else?

There is no winning a power struggle with a cat.

 

[ailish]

One more suggestion you probably already heard. What do you do when you put down the bowl? Sometimes my cat will not eat unless I put down the bowl in front of her and will only eat if I'm right there. If I get up she walks away.
Fatty Liver Disease in Cats | PetM
Caused by a cat not getting nutrition

I have this putting down the food issue. At first I thought it was weird. I mean, my cat is on a feeding schedule that works very well for both of us. My presence throughout the meal is not mandatory and often distracts her, as she'd rather get petted than eat. Even if she goes downstairs with me at dinnertime to get the food, she has to come up with me and see me put the dish down, or IT'S NOT HER FOOD. If I put my hand on the dish after it's down, it magically makes it her food. If she is nowhere in sight and I put a dish of food down and go do something it is totally unacceptable and there's a good chance she simply won't eat it ever.

 

[treeclimber]

Why do cats have to eat food in two hours (or whatever) or else?

From a food safety perspective, wet food that’s sat out at room temperature for more than 4 hours is at risk of growing dangerous levels of nasty bacteria.

But I’ve extended that window by refrigerating food before I put out the overnight feeding so it doesn’t reach room temperature right away, and my cat has never shown any interest in eating food that’s been sitting out too long anyway.

 

[treeclimber]

Have you tried Science Diet foods yet? They’re the non-prescription foods made by Hill’s, and almost all of them are as low in phosphorus as you can get while still being palatable.

If you’ve got a tuna lover, try the Adult Tender Tuna food. The adults age 1-6 version is 0.52% phosphorus on a dry matter basis, and the seniors 7+ is 0.54%. Some cats prefer the adults one over the seniors one.

The nice thing about Science Diet is that it’s sold at mainstream pet stores like Petco and PetSmart - so you can buy a few cans to try rather than a whole case.

If you’re concerned about grains/gluten, Science Diet does make a grain-free line and their sensitive stomach food also avoids gluten. But if you’ve got a renal kitty who won’t eat, and Science Diet turns out to be a low-phosphorus canned food she’ll eat willingly, then I’d call that a win and not worry about grains/gluten as long as she doesn’t get diarrhea from them.

 

[GranolaLouise]

Update:
Yesterday I took my ckd cat to a specialist and she sat down with me and thoroughly explained and talked with me about the condition for an hour. I joined a renal listserve,bought book after book and heard so many people talk of THEIR journey in a complicated ,technical way it became confusing. I was not savvy enough to discern what would be good for my cat's stage. Injections, Binders,Home cooking,raw,regular food,renal food,sub Q,..all good advice, but what was right for the stage MY cat was in? So I went to a specialist for some direction.
With my GP vets, it was take a blood test, walk out with $60 worth of Hill's prescription renal foods and see ya in a few months.
(Of course the cat wouldn't eat the renal food and I was stuck with 23 useless cans. One set was returned to Chewy.)
But this specialist gave my kitty a thorough exam using state of the art machines at the hospital, meds as well as something to take home to administer topically which would enhance her appetite. She also gave me a shopping bag with a variety of renal food samples to try and see what would work.
Well today my kitty can't eat enough of the renal foods(a good thing since she needs to put on some weight). Sure , she is partial to certain ones, but is not eating the cheap junky foods which would exacerbate her condition.
I am so glad I got some direction after visiting this specialist and talking one on one rather than visiting my general in and out vet center.
I feel better equipped to face the long road ahead now.
Thank you ,all who shared their experiences in kind,warm and caring posts. I do thank you for your patience during the foggy time we went through.

 

[maggie101]

Great news!so glad things are better.

 

[danteshuman]

Have you talked to the vet about medication for your cat’s nausea? Also you can try baby food that is onion and garlic free.

I have no idea about the health but when Salem had kidney failure we would feed him lickable treats and fancy feast broths. The chicken vegetable broth (non creamy) might work for your cat’s smoothie. You could also try making your own homemade broth from turkey. My picky bastard loves turkey but mainly dislikes chicken.

 

[GranolaLouise]

Thanks for your reply danteshuman. Nauseated no longer. Lickable treats and toppers were a sure vomit trigger.I was giving her turkey Baby Food. I am trying to stay away from non prescription stuff like FF.
I surely will try the turkey broth once I get to the store. Do you skin it first to get all the fat off before boiling?
For the past 2 days it has been like a vacation for me now that she is on topical mirtazapine.
But when she poops..look out world!

 

[Alldara]

Wonderful news Louise. Im so glad the specialist was able to provide the in person support you needed