Is Low phosphorus food bad for Kittens?

[JavierG]

I ask the above question as I have an older cat the is pre-Kidney disease and is on a prescription diet. But was told that I cannot have the Kitten eat it as they include some things to help with Kidney function that could over time be harmful to kitten. Unfortunately older cat is a grazer and often leaves the food and the Kitten gets at it.

while we try to pickup the food before kitten gets to it, we are not perfect and it’s stressing me out. So was looking for some alternative food that may be helpful to older cats situation but does not harm the kitten if she gets to it. I read low phosphorus foods is what I should be looking for. But is that ok for a kitten to eat?

 

[FeebysOwner]

As I understand it, kittens need a higher level of phosphorus than adult cats, much less ones with kidney disease. But what is sad about that is most companies don't list the phosphorus in foods regardless.

However, the general rule of thumb is not really needing to place a great emphasis on lowering the phosphorus for a cat with kidney disease until the level in their blood work is considered too high. And that can vary depending on the degree of the kidney disease. I would highly recommend that you begin to read what I call the 'bible' of all things related to kidney disease in cats - Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat (felinecrf.org). It is comprehensive and extensive, but worth every ounce of effort it takes to read through it over time. My cat has Stage 3 CKD, and I still - after thoroughly reading through this web site - reference it often.

In the meantime, is your older cat microchipped? If so, you could buy a feeder that only opens to the chip code, so your kitten could not get to your other cat's food.

I do want to add that many of the prescription foods for kidney disease, while lower in phosphorus, are generally lower in protein. Most cats that have CKD are older and already losing muscle mass from natural aging alone, and so a lower protein count isn't always the best approach, especially in the early stages of kidney disease. Also, not a good thing for a growing kitten.

If you have your cat's blood work, showing the kidney values, including phosphorus, I would be happy to take a look and assess it from what I have learned as a layperson whose cat has kidney disease.

 

[JavierG]

As I understand it, kittens need a higher level of phosphorus than adult cats, much less ones with kidney disease. But what is sad about that is most companies don't list the phosphorus in foods regardless.

However, the general rule of thumb is not really needing to place a great emphasis on lowering the phosphorus for a cat with kidney disease until the level in their blood work is considered too high. And that can vary depending on the degree of the kidney disease. I would highly recommend that you begin to read what I call the 'bible' of all things related to kidney disease in cats - Tanya's Comprehensive Guide to Feline Chronic Kidney Disease - Everything You Need to Know to Help Your Cat (felinecrf.org). It is comprehensive and extensive, but worth every ounce of effort it takes to read through it over time. My cat has Stage 3 CKD, and I still - after thoroughly reading through this web site - reference it often.

In the meantime, is your older cat microchipped? If so, you could buy a feeder that only opens to the chip code, so your kitten could not get to your other cat's food.

I do want to add that many of the prescription foods for kidney disease, while lower in phosphorus, are generally lower in protein. Most cats that have CKD are older and already losing muscle mass from natural aging alone, and so a lower protein count isn't always the best approach, especially in the early stages of kidney disease. Also, not a good thing for a growing kitten.

If you have your cat's blood work, showing the kidney values, including phosphorus, I would be happy to take a look and assess it from what I have learned as a layperson whose cat has kidney disease.

Thank You for this detailed response. I don’t have access to the bloodwork, what the Vet told me was she is Pre kidney disease. But I guess to clarify the kitten eats all her kitten food. But after she finishes that she also steals from the kidney diet of Lola, which at times can be another 3 oz cans worth over a day since Lola hates the food and leaves it there to occasionally graze on. So is it harmful to the kitten to eat the diet food on top of her normal kitten food?

 

[FeebysOwner]

So is it harmful to the kitten to eat the diet food on top of her normal kitten food?

How old is this kitten? I guess I would have to think the kitten is not getting enough to eat with her own kitten food alone. Most kittens can, and should, eat however much they want until about the age of 1yo or so, and often that means not only canned food, but dry food left out as well. So, I can't really answer your question but to say the kitten is apparently not getting enough to eat and will eat anything else she comes across.

As far as Lola, if she doesn't like the food and isn't eating enough - what is the point in giving her the kidney food? Most cats don't like the prescription foods, either for very long or not at all. I see no value in giving a cat food that they don't like. Ultimately, they lose weight and muscle mass just because of that alone. Think about eating a food you don't care much about and told that is all you are getting. You will eat some of it when you are hungry, but you sure aren't going to enjoy it, or likely eat enough.

 

[JavierG]

How old is this kitten? I guess I would have to think the kitten is not getting enough to eat with her own kitten food alone. Most kittens can, and should, eat however much they want until about the age of 1yo or so, and often that means not only canned food, but dry food left out as well. So, I can't really answer your question but to say the kitten is apparently not getting enough to eat and will eat anything else she comes across.

As far as Lola, if she doesn't like the food and isn't eating enough - what is the point in giving her the kidney food? Most cats don't like the prescription foods, either for very long or not at all. I see no value in giving a cat food that they don't like. Ultimately, they lose weight and muscle mass just because of that alone. Think about eating a food you don't care much about and told that is all you are getting. You will eat some of it when you are hungry, but you sure aren't going to enjoy it, or likely eat enough.

Agree that’s another reason for trying to find other low phosphorus food or an alternative. Have already tried a few different types of diet food. None work as Lola doesn’t want it. The kitten is 5 months old. And when I leave out her dry food Lola eats it.

 

[JavierG]

I’ll probably have to suck it up and get the microchip feeders.

 

[JavierG]

How old is this kitten? I guess I would have to think the kitten is not getting enough to eat with her own kitten food alone. Most kittens can, and should, eat however much they want until about the age of 1yo or so, and often that means not only canned food, but dry food left out as well. So, I can't really answer your question but to say the kitten is apparently not getting enough to eat and will eat anything else she comes across.

As far as Lola, if she doesn't like the food and isn't eating enough - what is the point in giving her the kidney food? Most cats don't like the prescription foods, either for very long or not at all. I see no value in giving a cat food that they don't like. Ultimately, they lose weight and muscle mass just because of that alone. Think about eating a food you don't care much about and told that is all you are getting. You will eat some of it when you are hungry, but you sure aren't going to enjoy it, or likely eat enough.

About Lola not eating you are correct about the problem with Lola not eating. It’s quite frustrating as have already spent some money on different foods, and they are all $56 just to try them. I have already exhausted the 4 renal and kidney diet options options the Vet has on hand. So was looking for other options that maybe are better than normal cat food but that she will eat. Was thinking of trying Weruva or such. Looking at the website you provided (lots of good info btw, Thank You!) I see lots of food options. Am I aiming primarily for low phosphorus And low Sodium? I agree about your comment about protein. Interesting I read an article that pointed out that what’s most important is that the cats eat, as in some cases Cats with Kidney disease actually starve themselves to death. I do not Think Lola is eating enough. I don’t think she even eats 3 ounces, so I have supplemented periodically with some normal food she would eat. But need to find something better. Even if not perfect but that is closer to what she needs for kidneys. My problem is the amazing amount of money waste. I can’t just buy 2 or 3 cans to try. I have to buy a whole case only to find out she hates it.

 

[JavierG]

So am now at Vet with Lola for another reason, and Vet said she has lost 1.5 lbs in just 2 months. So we are getting meds to stimulate appetite and she said to go off diet for now as she is not guilt in kidney disease yet she said creatin is at 1.6 and phosphorus is within normal range but on high side. She said more important that Lola eats. So instead will look to other foods that will not contribute to kidney problem down the road like Weruva, or she said Dave’s. I shared with her the website provided above and she said she never saw it but on the surface it looks quite good with good info and together we looked at the foods listed and selected a few options for Lola to try. So THank you! your info has had an immediate help I read of me just having some high level discussion, was able to get right to meaningful details

 

[FeebysOwner]

My cat is not into much of any of the low phosphorus foods - but she is a pate-only eater and most of them are a bit higher in phosphorus. However, I only buy what I can find from local pet stores so that I don't buy cases that will go to waste or be donated. It does limit my options, but I can buy one or two cans of select items - enough to last 1-2 weeks each time. I do this because Feeby has to have a rotation of foods to keep her eating. She cannot eat the same thing within the span of a week or so, or she will stop eating it.

She rarely gets through 3 oz a day. So, I supplement her intake with baby food meat (Gerber Stage 2 or Beechnut). I even add EZ Complete to it to make them nutritionally complete for a cat. EZ Complete will work with all but the chicken baby food meat, due to a calcium conflict. She seems to be able to consistently eat these compared to the canned foods. A 2.5oz jar can add anywhere from 50-80 calories. And all it takes is 1/2 tsp of the EZ Complete added to each jar. I also just recently found out that the phosphorus level in this supplement is 0.8% on a dry matter basis, which is pretty good.

Feeby is much further along with her kidney disease than Lola, but I now add a phosphorus binder to her canned foods since she won't eat the ones that are lower in phosphorus. Something you can consider down the road for Lola. Phosphorus binders can cause a bit of constipation, and there are those who use Miralax to offset that if it happens to their cats. Knock on wood, so far,.that hasn't happened to Feeby. However, having said all that, if Lola's phos level is over 6.0 mg/dl, starting a phos binder now wouldn't be a bad idea. The goal is to keep the phos level below 4.6 in the early stages of CKD.

I use Mirataz, a transdermal gel form of appetite stimulant that I rub into the pinnae of Feeby's ear. I like it because it allows me to adjust the dose as I see fit. Something else for you to consider if that is not what the vet gave you.

 

[JavierG]

My cat is not into much of any of the low phosphorus foods - but she is a pate-only eater and most of them are a bit higher in phosphorus. However, I only buy what I can find from local pet stores so that I don't buy cases that will go to waste or be donated. It does limit my options, but I can buy one or two cans of select items - enough to last 1-2 weeks each time. I do this because Feeby has to have a rotation of foods to keep her eating. She cannot eat the same thing within the span of a week or so, or she will stop eating it.

She rarely gets through 3 oz a day. So, I supplement her intake with baby food meat (Gerber Stage 2 or Beechnut). I even add EZ Complete to it to make them nutritionally complete for a cat. EZ Complete will work with all but the chicken baby food meat, due to a calcium conflict. She seems to be able to consistently eat these compared to the canned foods. A 2.5oz jar can add anywhere from 50-80 calories. And all it takes is 1/2 tsp of the EZ Complete added to each jar. I also just recently found out that the phosphorus level in this supplement is 0.8% on a dry matter basis, which is pretty good.

Feeby is much further along with her kidney disease than Lola, but I now add a phosphorus binder to her canned foods since she won't eat the ones that are lower in phosphorus. Something you can consider down the road for Lola. Phosphorus binders can cause a bit of constipation, and there are those who use Miralax to offset that if it happens to their cats. Knock on wood, so far,.that hasn't happened to Feeby. However, having said all that, if Lola's phos level is over 6.0 mg/dl, starting a phos binder now wouldn't be a bad idea. The goal is to keep the phos level below 4.6 in the early stages of CKD.

I use Mirataz, a transdermal gel form of appetite stimulant that I rub into the pinnae of Feeby's ear. I like it because it allows me to adjust the dose as I see fit. Something else for you to consider if that is not what the vet gave you.

Mirataz is what the vet gave us for Lola. Though she said that is a short term med, only a few weeks as it could cause liver damage for ling term continuous use.

I am switching Lola back to her normal food for now to see if we can get her weight up again. And then will work to see how we can manage diet better.

 

[FeebysOwner]

Mirataz is what the vet gave us for Lola. Though she said that is a short term med, only a few weeks as it could cause liver damage for ling term continuous use...I am switching Lola back to her normal food for now to see if we can get her weight up again. And then will work to see how we can manage diet better.

Mirataz, like most any med, carries cautions relative to possible impacts on various organs. That said, my cat has been on a low dose for 2 years now, and thankfully, there has not been - so far - any impact on her liver. You'd be amazed at how many CKD cats take this med for the duration of their remaining lifetime. Hopefully, Lola will only be on it for a short while at this point!

If for some reason, you don't get the results the vet is looking for, ask them about adding an anti-nausea med too. Mirataz does have some anti-emetic properties, but there are some cats who need to have it supplemented with an anti-nausea med. Feeby has been prescribed ondansetron in case she experiences nausea, but most of the time I can't get her to take it, so it seems for her the anti-emetic in Mirataz might be enough.

Good plan, IMO, about Lola's food for now!!

 

[Furballsmom]

Am I aiming primarily for low phosphorus And low Sodium?

With my Poppycat, I had a cat who wouldn't eat anything other than Fancy Feast for most of his life. After we adopted him when he was about 4.5 years old, I left that for a long while but then I started working -- for years and before he was diagnosed with kidney disease, to get him to accept another brand. We eventually came to a compromise where as long as he got some FF, he'd also eat one or two other brands for another meal or two during the day.

After his health became compromised I wanted low-ish phos and low sodium. I used some Weruva because after several conversations with their rep the brands they have under their umbrella seemed good items to have on his menu. For example, another ingredient that can become a problem for older cats is iodine (regarding the thyroid), and Weruva maintains the lowest level of iodine in their foods that the AAFCO allows, where a lot of other brands are not only higher in iodine but quite a lot higher. Additionally, Weruva WX is extremely low in phosphorus, to the point that the AAFCO required them to put a statement on their cans that the food is not complete. However, other than the phos content every other ingredient meets regulation standards.

The last couple of years after a bout of triaditus in 2019, since Poppy also was one of those cats who absolutely Would. Not. Touch. food with any kind of supplement in it, I had to handfeed him two-three times a day. My vet told me about using a popsicle stick, and it works much better than syringing. We managed to keep his weight up except for a couple brief stretches. He made it to 17.5 years old and the various things he had going on (liver, pancreas, gallbladder, kidneys, thyroid) didn't impact him much until right at the end, a year ago this past October.

Thank you for inadvertently giving me a chance to talk about him again. I love doing that, he was such an incredible gentleman of a cat

If/When you get to the point of either adding low phos foods into your cat's menu and/or looking at handfeeding, keep Weruva in mind, keep doing research by checking other brands' websites that you might be interested in, and emailing and calling since manufacturers change their recipes often and they don't have to update the labels for six months as I understand it.

Also definitely don't consider handfeeding a last resort. It can literally be a lifesaver.

 

[JavierG]

My cat is not into much of any of the low phosphorus foods - but she is a pate-only eater and most of them are a bit higher in phosphorus. However, I only buy what I can find from local pet stores so that I don't buy cases that will go to waste or be donated. It does limit my options, but I can buy one or two cans of select items - enough to last 1-2 weeks each time. I do this because Feeby has to have a rotation of foods to keep her eating. She cannot eat the same thing within the span of a week or so, or she will stop eating it.

She rarely gets through 3 oz a day. So, I supplement her intake with baby food meat (Gerber Stage 2 or Beechnut). I even add EZ Complete to it to make them nutritionally complete for a cat. EZ Complete will work with all but the chicken baby food meat, due to a calcium conflict. She seems to be able to consistently eat these compared to the canned foods. A 2.5oz jar can add anywhere from 50-80 calories. And all it takes is 1/2 tsp of the EZ Complete added to each jar. I also just recently found out that the phosphorus level in this supplement is 0.8% on a dry matter basis, which is pretty good.

Feeby is much further along with her kidney disease than Lola, but I now add a phosphorus binder to her canned foods since she won't eat the ones that are lower in phosphorus. Something you can consider down the road for Lola. Phosphorus binders can cause a bit of constipation, and there are those who use Miralax to offset that if it happens to their cats. Knock on wood, so far,.that hasn't happened to Feeby. However, having said all that, if Lola's phos level is over 6.0 mg/dl, starting a phos binder now wouldn't be a bad idea. The goal is to keep the phos level below 4.6 in the early stages of CKD.

I use Mirataz, a transdermal gel form of appetite stimulant that I rub into the pinnae of Feeby's ear. I like it because it allows me to adjust the dose as I see fit. Something else for you to consider if that is not what the vet gave you.

So just saw Lola Lab, her phos is 4.3 mg/dl

 

[JavierG]

With my Poppycat, I had a cat who wouldn't eat anything other than Fancy Feast for most of his life. After we adopted him when he was about 4.5 years old, I left that for a long while but then I started working -- for years and before he was diagnosed with kidney disease, to get him to accept another brand. We eventually came to a compromise where as long as he got some FF, he'd also eat one or two other brands for another meal or two during the day.

After his health became compromised I wanted low-ish phos and low sodium. I used some Weruva because after several conversations with their rep the brands they have under their umbrella seemed good items to have on his menu. For example, another ingredient that can become a problem for older cats is iodine (regarding the thyroid), and Weruva maintains the lowest level of iodine in their foods that the AAFCO allows, where a lot of other brands are not only higher in iodine but quite a lot higher. Additionally, Weruva WX is extremely low in phosphorus, to the point that the AAFCO required them to put a statement on their cans that the food is not complete. However, other than the phos content every other ingredient meets regulation standards.

The last couple of years after a bout of triaditus in 2019, since Poppy also was one of those cats who absolutely Would. Not. Touch. food with any kind of supplement in it, I had to handfeed him two-three times a day. My vet told me about using a popsicle stick, and it works much better than syringing. We managed to keep his weight up except for a couple brief stretches. He made it to 17.5 years old and the various things he had going on (liver, pancreas, gallbladder, kidneys, thyroid) didn't impact him much until right at the end, a year ago this past October.

Thank you for inadvertently giving me a chance to talk about him again. I love doing that, he was such an incredible gentleman of a cat

If/When you get to the point of either adding low phos foods into your cat's menu and/or looking at handfeeding, keep Weruva in mind, keep doing research by checking other brands' websites that you might be interested in, and emailing and calling since manufacturers change their recipes often and they don't have to update the labels for six months as I understand it.

Also definitely don't consider handfeeding a last resort. It can literally be a lifesaver.

Thank you for the great info, and sharing you Poppy stories with us.