Having A Cat PTS vs Hospice Care

[cataan]

I would appreciate opinions on, rather than euthanasia, providing buprenex or another opioid and allowing a dying cat to pass away on its own, without pain (or at least much pain). I'm not suggesting overdosing the cat, rather, giving small amounts to ameliorate the pain as the cat becomes weaker over time, eventually losing consciousness and eventually dying. Basically, like hospice care for people. This would, of course, depend on the illness - for example, I wouldn't do this for congestive heart failure, since drowning on your own plasma wouldn't be affected by opioids. Kidney disease, however, could be appropriate for this, as would certain cancers.

I'm bringing this up because I know of three cats who were euthanized. Only one had a pain free, easy passing. Each of the other two endured the most painful last second of their lives, not the way the cat, or the cat's human, wants it to go. I happen to be one of those humans, and while I cannot take back the choice I made, I know that at some point I'll have to make the choice again, and I want to start thinking about it now.

 

[game misconduct]

i would want a fast clean death for myself i just watched my gf mom die in hospice few months back. i wouldnt want to put graycie through that either better to just give her or any of my pets a fast clean death.i also know of and used a vet that makes house calls to euthanize your pet so it can die peacefully in your arms at home my family was able to be there with our lab petting him until he drew his last breathe

 

[Mamanyt1953]

OK, think of it this way...wouId you rather endure the most painfuI Iast second, or have that second drag on and on and on? Cats are masters at hiding pain. Whatever pain you see, you may be sure that their reaIity is far, far worse. And it does not have to be. Cats exist in an "aIways now" state. What is, wiII be forever. So, their misery is, for them, forever. Why proIong that?

I know what I want for myseIf, and that is to have the abiIity to make the decision to go, to NOT Iive in pain and misery. My sons have promised me that, shouId it be necessary, they wiII move me to a state where assististed suicide is IegaI, and Iet me go. I wouId want nothing Iess for a beIoved pet. And, as my own girI is now fifteen, with severaI heaIth issues, it is an issue that I wiII face in the foreseeabIe future. I wiII thank her for her Iove and devotion, and hoId her cIose up untiI the end.

 

[FeebysOwner]

You will get tons of responses I am guessing based on the situation with each cat and its particular illness(es). And I would also guess it won't get you anywhere closer to an answer. There is no answer.

But I personally know what you are talking about. I am dealing with this dilemma with my current cat, she is terminal, but holding her own so far. I have thought long and hard about what you are saying, as I do know from personal experience how what you are suggesting is used with humans. I do want to say that even with humans, depending on the disease/illness involved, using opioids doesn't always give them a peaceful death - at least not in terms of what I have experienced from when they are dying.

Every case is so, so different, and aside from using the mostly useless QOL tests, it is going to be very personal and individual in choice.

I wish you the best - as I wish for Feeby and myself.

 

[catloverfromwayback]

All my cats who were euthanised had blink-of-an-eye passing. The only one I regret is Katie, who did die of congestive heart failure - I wasn't quick enough to recognise it and euthanise her, even though I knew she was near the end (rapid, aggressive cancer). As game misconduct said, I'd much rather my cats, and I, go that way than a lingering death.

 

[cataan]

Since I haven't been specific about my cat, he received three drugs via IV: 1) anesthesia, 2) a solution to clear the line, 3) the drug that stops his heart. Before the anesthesia was given I said that he had to be unconscious before being euthanized, and if that means we need to wait a few minutes for full effect then we need to wait a few minutes. After the anesthesia was given I said he doesn't seem to be unconscious we need to wait until he is unconscious, and I began petting him. I looked back, then I heard him squeal. While it was over in half a second it was anything but painless.

Before I brought him in for euthanasia we was laying quietly on a pillow doing one of his favorite things - just being near me. I am not anthropomorphizing - he really loved just being near me or even better on me. I am sure many of you have the same bond with your cat. I am also sure my cat felt poorly since his creatinine was 6.7 and he was no longer able to walk (he was able to walk earlier in the day but was rapidly deteriorating) and clearly getting more and more tired. Opioids would have relieved the pain he was feeling to allow him to eventually just fall unconscious -- or heck, with sufficient quantity, I could have just overdosed him while he was laying on his comfy pillow. He would have fallen asleep, then unconscious, then died.

I absolutely do not want something like this to occur again.

 

[game misconduct]

all you can do is what you feel is best in your situation

 

[Furballsmom]

This is still not really an answer to your question but I thought I'd mention that somewhere along the line I came across this, to make sure that isoflurane or sevoflurane is used, and not ketamine or halothane gas.

 

[iPappy]

Since I haven't been specific about my cat, he received three drugs via IV: 1) anesthesia, 2) a solution to clear the line, 3) the drug that stops his heart. Before the anesthesia was given I said that he had to be unconscious before being euthanized, and if that means we need to wait a few minutes for full effect then we need to wait a few minutes. After the anesthesia was given I said he doesn't seem to be unconscious we need to wait until he is unconscious, and I began petting him. I looked back, then I heard him squeal. While it was over in half a second it was anything but painless.

Before I brought him in for euthanasia we was laying quietly on a pillow doing one of his favorite things - just being near me. I am not anthropomorphizing - he really loved just being near me or even better on me. I am sure many of you have the same bond with your cat. I am also sure my cat felt poorly since his creatinine was 6.7 and he was no longer able to walk (he was able to walk earlier in the day but was rapidly deteriorating) and clearly getting more and more tired. Opioids would have relieved the pain he was feeling to allow him to eventually just fall unconscious -- or heck, with sufficient quantity, I could have just overdosed him while he was laying on his comfy pillow. He would have fallen asleep, then unconscious, then died.

I absolutely do not want something like this to occur again.

These things can be traumatic for us, and I'm so sorry you had such an upsetting experience.
Have you looked into this to see if it's offered in your area?
https://www.lapoflove.com/our-services/veterinary-hospice

 

[FeralHearts]

This is rather a raw one for me. Mia just passed on July 19 and it was not a good death. At least not that I feel.

Masters of hiding pain is an understatement. I'm honestly unsure if the bupr had a hand in her passing, the pred, the cancer, or what. I can tell you, and I will write a thread about it ....is that part of this has to do with how palliative care is done - and it makes me angry. It's a subject I think needs to be discussed and things changed about it.

What I can tell you is that she had an appointment on the Friday (21st) to be assessed , although they were looking more at euthanised at that point. On the Monday she had walked and then kind of laid down / fell down gently - at that point I knew she had to be in pain. We thought it was her leg. They gave me bupr for her. I gave it to her that night and Tuesday morning. Tuesday night she stopped drinking water and was getting weaker - I didn't know what it meant at the time when a cat leans over a water dish and hovers over it for a 3-5 minutes - I do now sadly. So now she wasn't eating or drinking - I watched her closely and wednesday morning called the vet. In my mind we were going to assess her still and see what the issue was. They couldn't see her until 3 pm. She was looking weak around 1 pmish. I gave her 1/2 a dose of gab to try to help her with panicking in the car - which she does - and I didn't want to put more stress on her. Within 30ish minutes she turned and it went bad fast. I knew I wasn't going to make it to the ER with her. So I made the choice to wait with her to go to her doctor.

She died in my arms in the parking lot from what we sorted out. It was awful. It makes me sick. She deserved better.

I think the trouble with anything we do is that we can never know for sure what's best because they can't talk. We could easily make a bad call one way or the other... and I scream this at the top of my lungs .. IT SUCKS. (and that's an understatement too.)

Here is the other thing... now luckily for me I knew Mia's reaction to any form of sedation. She would fight it. One thing I discussed with the vet after her cancer diagnosis was that when the time came it was something we had to be mindful of - otherwise even euthanasia would have turned into a bad death. Not everyone will have had that experience with their kitty to know that.

I have three more at home that one day I'll be faced with this again and even after what happened with Mia... I haven't a clue. We can only do what we think is best at the time.

A wise person here said to me about Mia's cancer that they could guarantee me one thing... that anything I did I would have guilt over and question any choices I made. They were right. Not one choice I made I wouldn't change if given the chance. That includes even having her lump biopsied - I even question doing that at this point.

My point to you is this... as much as we would like to try to plan for things and have them come out right. We can't. You can only do what you think is right at the time. Until we can get these wee and absolutely special creatures to speak - we are feeling around in the dark often.

I am so incredibly sorry that you had to experience a less than peaceful passing for two of yours as well. It's a hard thing to forgive and it's something that stays with you - I think for a long time - I doubt that even in time it's a pain that ever completely goes away from your heart.

XOXOXOXOXO

 

[catloverfromwayback]

I am so sorry Mia passed like that. It's similar to how Katie passed in 2009 - diagnosed with cancer and we were told she had maybe two weeks to live. I didn't know what congestive heart failure looked like, Mum rang me at work to say Katie was in distress, I got home as fast as I could (90 minute trip on public transport), rang my sister to ask her to meet me so I could get Katie to the vet to euthanise her. Got home, she was unconscious, and as we got into my sister's car she gave an almighty kick and died in my lap.

 

[FeralHearts]

Thanks. I'm so sorry you had to experience similar. It not an easy thing and there is no real 'book' to follow. The approach to palliative care needs work too IMHO - at least here.

I hate cancer in both humans and animals. It's a brutal. merciless and evil illness.

 

[Purrfect Meow]

When one you love becomes a memory, the memories become the treasure. - Unknown Author.

All any of us can do is love them, which we do. We do our best with the information we have at the time. That is all we can do.

 

[catloverfromwayback]

Thanks. I'm so sorry you had to experience similar. It not an easy thing and there is no real 'book' to follow. The approach to palliative care needs work too IMHO - at least here.

I hate cancer in both humans and animals. It's a brutal. merciless and evil illness.

It is. Horrible illness in any species.

 

[neely]

My point to you is this... as much as we would like to try to plan for things and have them come out right. We can't. You can only do what you think is right at the time.

After having gone through this with multiple animals you're absolutely right. My heartfelt sympathies go out to you on the passing of Mia. Please accept my sincere and deepest condolences.

With each cat or dog we based our decision on their behavior and diagnosis but most of all their quality of life. Our last cat, Neely, had an incurable cancer and even on a painkiller from a compound pharmacy we knew she was still in pain and suffering so we gave her the best gift we could, for her not for us, i.e. to keep her dignity and end her torment.

As others have said, this is entirely a personal decision. You know your cat best and whatever you decide to do you have to live with your decision. It's not an easy one and by no means should be taken lightly which I know you will think through carefully. Special thoughts and prayers going out to you. And please remember you have all of us for support.

 

[FeralHearts]

Special thoughts and prayers going out to you. And please remember you have all of us for support.

Thanks Neely. It means a lot.

I haven't been able to post about her yet in the Rainbow Bridge area as when I do - I want it to be about her as much as I can... and not all of the horrible.

XOXOXO