Cat Keeps Trying To Kill Kitten

[Squivie]

Current cats:
Stella: Female, 8 years old, adopted 2 years ago. Stays at both my place and family home. First year only at family home.
Luna: Female, 2 years old, rescued at 2 weeks. Always stays at family home.
Leo: Male, 7 months old, adopted 6 months ago. Stays at both my sisters place and family home. Main living place is my sister's.

Luna and Leo get along so well. Stella keeps trying to kill Leo.

So Stella keeps trying to kill Leo. She didn't have this problem at first. They mainly only interact at the family home that they both frequently visit (at least once a month for a week+ at a time). The first few times they were at the family home together they were totally okay! Got along well, ignored eachother. After the first few times something just changed, I don't know if it's because Leo reached a certain age? They come to the family home on their own without eachother at times, too, but they inevitably have to be together at points so separating isn't an option.

Stella will be fine in the same room with him. Sometimes she will stare at him and then if he goes to move/run somewhere she will chase after him which turns into her attacking him, tons of hissing, growling, screaming, and tons of fur clumps everywhere. They'll be in a ball together. We haven't been able to see who really attacks first, though. We don't know if she chases and then he stops and attacks out of fear? But it seems likely to be her attacking. At first he wasn't scared until the first or second fight, and now he'll hiss and growl at her. It sounds nasty and someone needs to intervene. Whenever that happens, Luna always runs in to defend Leo and protect him, which sometimes ends in Luna and Stella fighting instead. But Stella and Luna never fight on their own. Maybe they did when they first got to know eachother.

They both adjust very well to switching from the 2 places (family home and mine or my sisters place). They don't show any stress and fit right back in no problem. It's only at points when Stella gets in the random mood to go and chase and attack him. It's not every time though.

I can't remember what their introduction was like but I believe it was rushed.


What can I do to fix this issue? I know it's not just playing because the sounds are intense, it's so hard to separate them, and there is a ton of fur everywhere after.

Besides the Leo thing, Stella is such a sweetheart. She's the quiet scared, extremely affectionate and cuddly, and like I said just the sweetest cat ever. So I'm so confused.

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! Welcome!
wow. So is everybody spayed and neutered? Have they all been in to the vet lately?

Assuming yes, (if not, they need to be) here are a few articles that might help, they aren't lengthy and have a lot of info;
How To Deal With Non-recognition Aggression In Cats
How To Successfully Introduce Cats: The Ultimate Guide
How To Fix An Unsuccessful Cat Introduction
How To Safely Break Up A Cat Fight
Is Your Cat Stressed Out?
Six Surefire Strategies To Reduce Stress In Cats

There are a lot of calming products on the market, treats, collars, diffusers with a lot of different ingredients, and a lot of brands besides feliway. It's possible that a calming product might help her, as long as she's been to the vet and is healthy.
Hang in there!!

 

[Squivie]

Thanks!

Yes they are all spayed and neutered. I read about non-recognition aggression but she'll see him most of the day and be fine but then randomly go out for him, sometimes multiple times a day. But not every time she sees him.

Do you know of much success for cats getting along using feliway?

 

[Furballsmom]

Hi! It's an interesting product in that some cats really respond well and do much better with lowered stress, aggression etc, yet some cats like my Big Guy don't have a positive response to it, don't like it, or are utterly unaffected by it.
Products with different ingredients, as an example, are Thunderease and Sentry--for instance they have diffusers, Only Natural Pet and vetriscience among others have treats et al, and there are a lot more you could try if feliway falls flat with your baby

 

[ArtNJ]

Sounds like for real cat fights to be sure. I'd try a reintroduction coupled with Feliway or other calming product. The idea behind the reintroduction is to give them time to forget the bad blood. Not much else seems to work when you are at the fighting for real stage. Reintroduction is a PITA to be sure, but for real fights can sometimes do real damage -- cat bites tend to get infected, for example -- so the situation must be cured or the cats must be separated.

 

[susanm9006]

Since they are only together periodically, is it possible to leave Leo at your sisters when she visits? If she is only gone for a day or two she might be able to get by without a pet sitter.

 

[Squivie]

Since they are only together periodically, is it possible to leave Leo at your sisters when she visits? If she is only gone for a day or two she might be able to get by without a pet sitter.

They're going to have to be at the family home at the same time, there's no way to avoid it

 

[Furballsmom]

I happened to remember yet another calming product, it's called Calm-o-mile.
I'm sending lots of good thoughts of success, happy cats and happy you and everyone!!
You'll be ok, you've got this!

 

[ArtNJ]

On re-reading this, "at least one week a month" together jumps out. I'm not sure that is enough for a stable cat-cat bond. Cats have short memories. So you may well have stranger-danger sometimes no matter what you do -- it should be easier for them to forget the bad times, but also the good won't necessarily cary over either. Go ahead and try the OTC calming products, but if real fights continue, you may need to carve out a room in the family home for one to live separately for that one week a month. If you can't or don't? Well, getting an abscess from an infected bite wound drained can cost 500+ dollars -- not to mention how much it stinks for the cat (cone hat and all that). It seems like its not that common for real fights to lead to vet-level damage, but it does happen -- its playing with fire, sooner or later real fights means real damage.

We have had a few posters in similar part-time/moving around living situations, but I can't recall a single post where real fights were happening and cured. I'm not sure how well any of us can help/predict how this will go, but I do wish you the best.

 

[Furballsmom]

I'm not sure how well any of us can help/predict how this will go, but I do wish you the best.

 

[ArtNJ]

Just had an idea. Maybe do a blanket swap when you leave the family home, so that each cat (particularly the one you think instigates fighting) gets the blanket of the other. Cats are very scent based, so hopefully having the scent of the other cat around when they are separated should help get around the short memories issue. Scent swapping is also a traditional step in an introduction/reintroduction, so I'm just suggesting customizing this to your situation -- you'll scent swap EVERY time the cats separate, to get around the "your a stranger" hostility and hopefully preserve favorable memory of the other cat (once you can get some new favorable memories for them). Only thing is I don't know if a blanket is going to keep the other cat's scent for three weeks so see Hellenww 's detailed plan below.

 

[Hellenww]

To add to Artnj's idea. Use receiving blankets and zipped bags to keep in scents. They usually come in a 3 pack and you can easily fit 1 or 2 in a gallon bag. Each time you're together exchange blankets and use one a week.

 

[Squivie]

Thanks guys!

For:

On re-reading this, "at least one week a month" together jumps out. I'm not sure that is enough for a stable cat-cat bond. Cats have short memories. So you may well have stranger-danger sometimes no matter what you do -- it should be easier for them to forget the bad times, but also the good won't necessarily cary over either. Go ahead and try the OTC calming products, but if real fights continue, you may need to carve out a room in the family home for one to live separately for that one week a month. If you can't or don't? Well, getting an abscess from an infected bite wound drained can cost 500+ dollars -- not to mention how much it stinks for the cat (cone hat and all that). It seems like its not that common for real fights to lead to vet-level damage, but it does happen -- its playing with fire, sooner or later real fights means real damage.

We have had a few posters in similar part-time/moving around living situations, but I can't recall a single post where real fights were happening and cured. I'm not sure how well any of us can help/predict how this will go, but I do wish you the best.

The house is open concept so there's no way to block off any areas, sadly. Also (I'm gonna make an edit) That they're usually fine. If Leo is sitting, sleeping, or standing, Stella doesn't attack or go after him. It's only when he starts to walk or run somewhere that she chases him and then attacks. Sometimes she watches him, waiting for him to make a move, eyes wide.

 

[Furballsmom]

Oh, you just caused a lightbulb to go off in my head. What if you take a different approach - since you're very aware of your kitties and their body language.

What if, every time she gets ready to go after him, you HISS at her, and/or throw your jangly noisy keys on the floor near to her, to break that "Prey-mode" thinking she gets into. It might take some repeating, but this might be the thing to get her to quit it.

 

[ArtNJ]

Ah so I think your saying that Stella initially wants to play, but somehow it turns into fighting? I had that once, where the cat that didn't want to play would hiss, growl and swat and that would flip a switch in the playful cat and turn it into true aggression. Is that whats happening? Or do you think its territorial and starts out with intent to hurt?

The main issue is which cat you want to use calming products on. It may well be that Leo is a better target, if this is happening because he is too nervous to play. Or maybe just try them on both cats.

The scent swapping idea with the towels discussed above should be tried regardless, it can't hurt, but its always good to pin down the exact problem.

 

[Squivie]

I’m not sure if it’s Stella wanting to play. It could be but in a sense it looks like her kind of stalking him, waiting for him to move to pounce. I hope for the best of her that she’s chasing him to play but her demeanour seems more like she’s preying on him.

It also makes sense with Leo not wanting to play and possibly that flipping Stella off? Though Leo always plays with Luna. It’s just him and Stella where it’s isnt working out in some way. Leo now since the first fight always hisses and growls at Stella whenever he sees her or she gets too close.

 

[ArtNJ]

Thats a pretty normal way for cats to play. They practice hunting on each other. They stalk. They wiggle the butt. They pounce. They bite the neck playfully. If Stella started with intent to harm, there would be the sounds of stress or hatred before she got started -- growl, hiss, scream spit, fur standing up. Its also pretty normal for a cat to be ok to play with one cat but not another. Stella might be a little rougher with the play, might have hurt Leo accidentally, or it could just be that Leo didn't remember her, and she didn't wait until he was comfortable before getting into it. The rare part of this would be if Leo is triggering true aggression in Stella merely by being defensive and growling/hissing in response to play pouncing. I had that happen myself with one set of cats in the past, and I've read of it happening to others, but it doesn't seem common.

So my guess is that Leo's stress is as much or more the problem than Stella, and I'd try Feliway if you haven't, and other calming products for both cats, plus the scent swap.

 

[Squivie]

Thank you guys so much, so much great insight here.
Really good to know about the starting behaviour and how she lacks any signs of aggression beforehand. Aswell as how Leo's fear response in attacking back could have triggered the switch in Stella.

This is great to hear, aswell as resources to calming products, thank you all so much! Hopefully things will change!