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post #31 of 42
I think the fantasy that Islam is a religion of peace is slowly being replaced by reality. I certainly don't mean that all Muslims are hateful murderers. However, day after day, year after year, the violence of the radical Muslims increases. And where are the peace loving Muslims? Are they taking steps to change the violence? I hear little glimmers here and there, but for the most part there is silence from the Muslims. Or more anger and hate.

Much of this hate is taught in the schools and churches. You cannot say honestly that Islam is a religion of peace. Not when the leaders of the religion teach hate and murder.

Certainly the Pope should not be fanning any flames. But the fault in this situation is not primarily his. It is the media for slanting the news of his speech. And mainly the Muslim radicals for using it to fan the violence they eagerly seek.

Just replace "Pope" with "black man", and "Muslim" with "KKK", and you will quickly see that the words do not justify the acts of violence.

Again, I do not think all Muslims are violent or wish to continue this hate. But unless truly peaceful Muslims will stand up for peace for all people, this will never end.
post #32 of 42
It's unfortunately a matter of education - the less educated a person is, the more more likely that that person will listen to radical teachings. We in malaysia do try to practise what we preach, unfortunately, just like everywhere else, not everyone listens!

After all, Islam is really a peaceful religion and unfortunately, radical muslims have a penchant for taking things out of context and acting on unwarrented behaviour.

What do you expect us Moderate muslims to do Beckiboo? (No, this in not a personal jibe, you were just the bravest person to voice your opinion!) I for one do not expect my premier to go around declaring war against fanatics! When Malaysia learns of radical teachings in the country, we shut it down quick...but not all radical teachers are so public in their opinions...so, how?
post #33 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckiboo View Post
And where are the peace loving Muslims? Are they taking steps to change the violence?
What are we supposed to do to the majority of these people we are just as much sinners as everyone else. How can I end the violence? Everyone I know is liberal like me. We don't know any ultra-conservative people and if I even tried to talk to them they would try and kill me.

Talking to the is like talking to a brick wall they would just tell that I am a scummy western sympathizer who is going to Hell.

I hate what these fanatics are doing but I don't consider them Muslims as they don't follow what is in the Quran. They target illerate fools who don't have much going in their lives and follow them blindly like sheep. Or students who go abroad for college not knowing anyone are targeted much like a cult.

The media covering these people irresponsibly also boosts their popularity. Abu Hamza (Hook hand) in the UK was known a weirdo who handed out flyers after prayers outside of the mosques. Pople though he was a loser and laughed at him media become interested in him suddenly all these yeenagers are flocking to him.
post #34 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abymummy View Post

What do you expect us Moderate muslims to do Beckiboo? (No, this in not a personal jibe, you were just the bravest person to voice your opinion!) I for one do not expect my premier to go around declaring war against fanatics! When Malaysia learns of radical teachings in the country, we shut it down quick...but not all radical teachers are so public in their opinions...so, how?
Certainly shutting down radical teachings is a great start. And it is different for people living in countries where they will be murdered for speaking up. But what about American muslims? From what I hear, the hateful teachings are going on here in America, too. Why don't American muslims speak up? And report the radicals to the authorities.

I am no longer convinced that Islam is a religion of peace. From what I have heard, the Koran teaches that women should have no rights, and it is good to kill Jews and Christians. Maybe moderate muslim's denounce that teaching, but if it is in the Koran, isn't it part of the religion? (Please let me know if I am wrong about this. I have never read the Koran myself.)
post #35 of 42
Becky, one of my Muslim students got me this book (in German) as a Christmas present: http://www.amazon.com/Koran-Dummies-...e=UTF8&s=books
I had asked about a good English or German translation, and she thought "The Koran for Dummies" would be an easier introduction to Islam.
post #36 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Becky, one of my Muslim students got me this book (in German) as a Christmas present: http://www.amazon.com/Koran-Dummies-...e=UTF8&s=books
I had asked about a good English or German translation, and she thought "The Koran for Dummies" would be an easier introduction to Islam.

The koran for dummies is a good introducation. but it leaves out the really good parts.
post #37 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckiboo View Post
I am no longer convinced that Islam is a religion of peace. From what I have heard, the Koran teaches that women should have no rights, and it is good to kill Jews and Christians. Maybe moderate muslim's denounce that teaching, but if it is in the Koran, isn't it part of the religion? (Please let me know if I am wrong about this. I have never read the Koran myself.)
Again, misconceptions and misinterpretations, unfortunately. Far be it for me to quote actual passages of the Quran to you, and I wont but, personally, it really would be best for you to read it for yourself. It is also fact that when people read, they only remember the things they like, like parts of sentences without going through and remembering the whole sentence.

An example: The phrase most commonly remembered on muslim polygamy is "A man may marry four wives"...a hah! Yay, men will remember this phase. But what the whole sentence reads is : " A man may marry four wives, in times of war, to keep her family whole and, if he can treat them ALL EQUALLY." Can you show me ONE man who can treat 4 women equally??? Not at all possible I'm afraid. Therefore, the sentence is actually saying - forget it, you should NOT have four wives!

I can't change your mind for you. All three religions (Judaism, Islam and Chritianity) are of the One God. I've read the bible cover to cover many times to look for the differences in the basic and frankly there isn't that many. Jesus Christ to us is not the son of god, but a prophet. We share the same prophets, same angels and archangels and we have the same Satan to abhor.

Religion isn't violent, Men are.
post #38 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abymummy View Post

Religion isn't violent, Men are.
Amen!
post #39 of 42
The Christian Bible says all people are children of God, loved by God. According to Christian teaching, it is as wrong to kill a fellow Christian, as it is to kill a Jewish person, or Muslim, or even an athiest. Is the same true of the Koran?

Are the fanatics twisting the Muslim faith? Obviously the answer is yes, but if it is written in the Koran that Jews and Christians are dogs, even if the enlightened Muslims choose not to follow that, and treat people of different religions fairly, it is hard to say the fanatics are twisting the faith.

The reporters captured in Israel/Palestine were forced to change to Muslim. Is that acceptable by the Koran? Forced conversions? By Biblical standards, that is not allowed. We try to lead people to becoming Christians, but it is not something that can or should be forced. And honestly, if I was in the position of those reporters, I would be dead, because I would not denounce my faith. Maybe it is easier for people of little faith or no faith to swear allegiance to another god, but for people (whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim or other) with a true belief and solid faith, that is impossible.

Thank you all for your patience with me. I just cannot get my mind around the fact that in the name of Allah, people are sawing other people's heads off! And burning churches and mosques, and spreading hate.
post #40 of 42
I have to say Christianity is not imune from its share of fanatics that have twisted the bibles wording. I don't think that fanatism is only in the Muslim faith. Even today with killing womens health practictioners in the name of Chrisitianity. Still killing. My father used to tell me that surely the devil was laughing because of all the people dying in the name of religon.

IMO the old testament a fairly bloodthirsty book. I would have to review it but to my recollection God turn Lots wife to a pillar of salt just for not having enough faith not to look back at Sodom and Gomorrah. Not the most loving thing that I have heard. Many of the people had multiple wives or they killed their own brothers. An eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth.

I like the new testament better but that is anouther story.

I really do not believe that the Koran teaches violence or that there is anything wrong with it. I haven't read it but I think that should be one of my goals in the coming year.

I do think that some people will use religon, any religon, to further their own agenda. I also believe that most people are good and just want to live in peace.

Tricia
post #41 of 42
Very true, but when a Christian fanatic kills, other Christians condemn the act. When a Muslim kills, many other Muslims celebrate with dancing in the streets. Not all Muslims to be sure, but the fact that many celebrated 9-11 is very concerning.

There are fanatics who claim to be Christians, but none of them have the goal of taking over the entire world by killing anyone who disagrees with them. Again, I'm not saying all Muslims believe in that, but the fact that many do is pretty scary.

The Muslim reaction to the Pope's speech...believing he accused them of being violent, so they kill a nun and burn some churches. Way to prove you are peaceful!
post #42 of 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by peachytoday View Post
I have to say Christianity is not immune from its share of fanatics that have twisted the Bible's wording. I don't think that fanaticism is only in the Muslim faith. Even today with killing women's health practitioners in the name of Christianity. Still killing. My father used to tell me that surely the devil was laughing because of all the people were dying in the name of religion.

IMO, the Old Testament a fairly bloodthirsty book. I would have to review it, but to my recollection God turn Lot's wife to a pillar of salt just for not having enough faith not to look back at Sodom and Gomorrah. Not the most loving thing that I have heard. Many of the people had multiple wives or they killed their own brothers. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.

I like the New Testament better, but that is another story.

I really do not believe that the Koran teaches violence or that there is anything wrong with it. I haven't read it, but I think that should be one of my goals in the coming year.

I do think that some people will use religion, any religion, to further their own agenda. I also believe that most people are good and just want to live in peace.

Tricia
Good points!
Also, there seem to be overreactions, if not paranoia, on both "sides", which is a word I hesitate to use. The cancellation of the performance of a Mozart opera in Germany is a prime example:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/28/wo...yt&emc=rss
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html
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