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Terriorists and Communists

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
In the Death Penalty therad, Zessou's Mom and Icklemiss21 brought up the valid question of whether or not treason should be prosecuted with the death penalty.

I feel the modern complexities make it very difficult to prosecute treason as a black and white issue, since we no longer have a single enemy or even a single "axis of evil".

Lately everytime AP published pictures of some weapon cache I have become quite disturbed by the images I see, which often feature some Chinese characters on the packaging. It almost makes me wonder if the Communist party in China is selling armory to terrorists.

The concept terrifies me. Communist China is evil enough without banding with such bandits.

Do you think terriorists and Communists have the potential to eventually work together against the U.S.? Some editorial articles suggest that the newest missiles filed from North Korea were actually a demonstration to entice Muslim terriorists to buy their missiles.
post #2 of 10
The terrorists' small arm of choice has long been the Chinese-made AK-47. Prior to the breakup of the Soviet Union, Russian-made AK-47s were found in the arsenals of Muslim jihadists, IRA cells, Latin American rebels and any other terrorist group, you can think of. When China began making a cheaper knockoff, the terrorists switched to buying from them.

Back in the '70s and 80s, the Soviet Union sold Moammar Khaddafi innumerable tanks, planes, guns and missiles. I'm sure they had a good laugh, at his expense - the SAMs (surface-to-air) missiles were defective and couldn't hit anything (just like North Korea's missiles), his pilots couldn't hit anything, either and the tanks were designed for Eastern Europe, NOT the desert.

After Khaddafi threw all of the foreigners out of Libya, he decided to invade his next-door neighbor, Chad. The tanks broke down, in the Sahara Desert and all of the instruction and repair manuals were written in RUSSIAN. I think those tanks are STILL out there, buried under the shifting sands

In short, there have been long-standing ties, between Communist countries and terrorist groups.
post #3 of 10
It has nothing to do with the country being Communist or not. The political ideology of the countries on the one hand and the religious beliefs of the other (at least the countries mentioned so far) are not what cause terrorism or violence.

Rather, people with very bad intentions have used the socioeconomic plights of the people in the countries involved to convince them that ideas that sound not-so-good to us sound good to them. If you are so poor that you are eating your dirt floor, and someone tells you that they will take money from the rich and give it to you, it sounds like a good idea. If you have nothing to look forward to in your life and are unable to take care of your family, and someone offers to financially care for your family and make you a hero if you join their "army", it sounds like a good idea.

My point is, when countries are weak from socioeconomic problems, they are vulnerable to dictatorships and rogue, borderless "nations" that can bring down a very tight control. In general, such dictators tend to loosely band together against their perceived enemy.

There has never existed a true Communist large-scale society, nor has their ever existed a country with the officially-stated goal of terrorism, just a whole lot of loosely-banded groups with a common enemy, namely us.

There was a "representative" of Iran at the launching of N Korea's missile, yes, but with the overwhelming failure of his missile tests that particular bond isn't much of a threat compared to the other ones, such as the officially-legitimate governmenst of certain countries in the Mid East using terrorist groups in other countries as a proxy army with no responsibility to go by anyone's rules.

What you get when you declare a war on "terror" is in fact a war with the majority of the rest of the world. Wars with no clear objectives and undefined enemies are destined, and have in the past, been miserable, heartbreaking failures.
post #4 of 10
Originally Posted by shengmei View Post
In the Death Penalty therad, Zessou's Mom and Icklemiss21 brought up the valid question of whether or not treason should be prosecuted with the death penalty.

I feel the modern complexities make it very difficult to prosecute treason as a black and white issue, since we no longer have a single enemy or even a single "axis of evil".
SO what is so hard to see what is Treason?, if you give infomation to state or group that wants you dead cause you are american its treason. Those people should face the death penalty.

during the cold war some of the information that was sold got people killed.Not only people working for the West , but also US service people.

It is not Difficult, What makes it that way is the bleeding heart judges and people who do not see the real issues.

This it is not a case of will they work together, they already do.

US business has sold out america along time ago, we do not control or own are ports
the canal was handed over to the chinese.

If they do not handle this well, or just give in then it will get much worse.
such as the US moves into iran, i would be willing to bet a million dollars that if the us does that china will have the opening it needs to move into Taiwan,and with the US so weak form dealing with iraq and iran there will be nothing we can do to help.

The war that is going on now has been in a long time coming. and it will be here for long time.
post #5 of 10
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post

What you get when you declare a war on "terror" is in fact a war with the majority of the rest of the world. Wars with no clear objectives and undefined enemies are destined, and have in the past, been miserable, heartbreaking failures.

I don't understand, what are you saying, shall we wave the white flag to the terrorists? I don't think so. I believe in fighting.
post #6 of 10
The problem is that "terrorist" is very subjective. Its often true that terrorists become freedom fighters if they win. One thing I have trouble with is understanding why Iran can't have nuclear technology. America seems so worked up about it but they have nuclear weapons and have used them as well.
I think that invading other people's countries, bombing schools and mosques and killing peaceful civilians by the dozen is Not the way to handle things so I could easily understand if the west has a few more people who hate it. If someone killed your child or mother and dismissed it as necessary casualties wouldn't you hate them?
I am of course not condoning terrorist actions or suicide bombers, just saying that their point of view is very extreme as opposed to completely alien.
I guess in short, I agree with Zissou'smom, particularly the last paragraph.
post #7 of 10
Thread Starter 
I consider all violent anarchiests terriorists, but that is just my personal definition. Only countries with stable, elected governments should have nuclear weapons. No matter how much people hate the U.S.......everybody can agree that it is still the most politically stable country in this world.

It is difficult for the U.S. to be the most prosperous country without other people hating the country. In a way I kind of understand it because I lost some of my own friends (including Christina, who had become my enemy) when I won a fellowship two years ago.

It is difficult for other people to stomach the fact that we are the most prosperous people in the world. It is difficult for others to not harbor resentment towards us. It is just unfortunately the way things are. The terriorists and communists are very much like the Nazi government who envy the developed countries because they live in despair.
post #8 of 10
I agree with Zissou's mom for the most part.
there is a difference from communism and terrorism, and for a while communism worked over there in the far off lands where the government comes before god. What we arent aware of is how amazing China's Navy is becoming, and how much terrorist doings get plotted each day and what we do as a country to inflate those big nasty plans (ya know what the media doesnt get a hold of)and what we cant quite get is how for many many many years those religious wars have been going on and a few US guns are not going to end it. We love pointing fingers and we love finding someone to blame, its a human thing, kinda like how animals lick their butts. what this has to do with anything...I dunno...

anyways, I believe countries will always openly dislike America (duh) and I believe they might even have sleepovers and bash the US while making popcorn and watching leo dicaprio movies, but i think there will be to much to lose if they ever got together and wiped us off the face of the earth.
post #9 of 10
Luxembourg and Norway have a greater GDP per capita, based on purchasing power than America, and when listed by GDP (nominal) then Luxembourg, Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Ireland, Denmark and Quatar are greater.
I don't see people hating on Norway or Iceland.
Also England has a very stable government, which in one form or another has existed in relative stability (execpt for the odd war and beheading ) for about 1000 years and almost certainly more than that- I forget. Taking your first president to be when your government came into being it has existed for a little over 200 years.
While there is always someone ready to complain about the government at least my country has never had serious yet never fully investigated allegations of ballot fraud during a general election.
The Nazi government had to a large extent made germany prosperous again before WWII. If they had known when to stop (ie before the mass murder and the trying to take over the world) then they would have rebuilt a country from depression to relative economic success. On the whole there wasn't much despair, and alot of people were at first very happy with the Nazis and thought they were doing a good job.
The US does also have a history of selling its weapons to the middle East (such as Saddam Hussein), which is one of the reasons everyone was surprised when we didn't find any.
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
I was watching Futurama last night and they had an episode making fun of the "butterfly" ballots.....that episode was made in before the election......so maybe if they were making fun of the ballots before the election, the ballots were already a problem before the election? I am not sure.....

Coming from Taiwan (where elections are always extremely close and there are always less than 1% of difference between winners and losers).....I have always thought it is always prudent to have an election recount in close elections anyway....That was simply no big deal for me.

In fact, I kinda wished we had simply reran the election instead giving people excuse to challange the legimacy of the government for eight years. It couldn't possibly cost more than the loss of the government's credentials.

Right now I am hoping that people could hold the presidential elections in Mexico again .....settle the dispute once and for all.....instead of handicapping Caldron's entire presidency.
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