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What will they be?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
I have a Seal Point Snowshoe named Annie Rose she's 2 (will be 3 in Dec.). 2 weeks ago she was bred. Here's a link to the story since its complicated and dont want to write it all out. http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97057
I've asked the breeder what the kittens will be. She said half seal and half blue. But that doesnt make since to me since Frosty (male) is a lynx point Snowshoe/Siamese mix. I know that Annie mostly has just Seal points in her lines. I think only 3 or 4 blues. But Frosty from what the breeder said has mostly blue. He also has quite a bit of Siamese mixed in thruout his whole pedigree. She showed me it while I went to pick up Annie Rose. What will we most likely get fom the breeding? Will most of them have the typical Snowshoe markings or will all of them. I know nothing at all about genetics.
post #2 of 12
Wow, that is such a sad story. I read your other story. You are right - Annie is NOT a show quality snowshoe and should have been spayed - she is mismarked. Without knowing what the father looks like, the chances of getting properly marked snowshoes is very small.

Snowshoes are very tricky breeding and you have to know genetics and know what you are doing - sounds like the breeder is not a good one and a byb too with that kind of contract. Plus you shouldn't be breeding a 1/2 snowshoe anyway - you are just getting poor quality mixed breed cats. NOT pedigree snowshoes.

From talking to snowshoe breeders you may be lucky to get one or two properly marked cats in a litter and that is from QUALITY parents. Its very hard to control the white spotting gene, which is what the snowshoes have. You can have a perfectly marked face and front paws and one hind leg....and the other hind leg will be mismarked - which makes the cat pet quality!

As far as the colors (snows only come in seal or blue points), you'd get about half and half like the breeder says. But I seriously doubt that they will be properly marked. If she is breeding to a lynx-point she is NOT an ethical snowshoe breeder!

After this litter, are you free to get her spayed? If so, I'd take her in right away. Does the breeder have control over the litter - do you give her back all the kittens or what? I'd like to see a copy of the "contract" and see just what would hold up in court.
post #3 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Wow, that is such a sad story. I read your other story. You are right - Annie is NOT a show quality snowshoe and should have been spayed - she is mismarked. Without knowing what the father looks like, the chances of getting properly marked snowshoes is very small.

Snowshoes are very tricky breeding and you have to know genetics and know what you are doing - sounds like the breeder is not a good one and a byb too with that kind of contract. Plus you shouldn't be breeding a 1/2 snowshoe anyway - you are just getting poor quality mixed breed cats. NOT pedigree snowshoes.

From talking to snowshoe breeders you may be lucky to get one or two properly marked cats in a litter and that is from QUALITY parents. Its very hard to control the white spotting gene, which is what the snowshoes have. You can have a perfectly marked face and front paws and one hind leg....and the other hind leg will be mismarked - which makes the cat pet quality!

As far as the colors (snows only come in seal or blue points), you'd get about half and half like the breeder says. But I seriously doubt that they will be properly marked. If she is breeding to a lynx-point she is NOT an ethical snowshoe breeder!

After this litter, are you free to get her spayed? If so, I'd take her in right away. Does the breeder have control over the litter - do you give her back all the kittens or what? I'd like to see a copy of the "contract" and see just what would hold up in court.
I do know what the dad looks like the breeder sent me a pic a couple days ago and another one this morning. She's very proud of this cat. But all I can say now is Frosty is in no way shape or form a full siamese or snowshoe or even a mix bewteen the two. Here's the first pic she sent. I was willing to believe her give hr the benefit of the doubt.

Very nice looking cat but I wasnt sure. He didnt look like a snoeshoe or that he even had snowshoe in him to me. So I asked for another pic. She sent me this one and a note that said doesnt he have pretty markings? LOOK AT HIS MARKINGS!



He's no way a Snowshoe/Siamese mix. What a load of crap! Now I'm going to have a litter of mix breed kittens that will turn out looking like who knows what! She will probably accuse me of letting her mate with another cat. Yes after this litter we can have her spayed. The kittens are supposed to be kept here with us but she will find all the homes. But if they dont turn out to look like she expects then I dont know if she will. Because of this I'm not able to foster kittens that need homes. Annie is not my cat. She is my parents. I lived with her and them until she was 6 months old. At which time I moved out with my cat Lily. I later got Kitten and Bagheera. Annie up until 2 weeks ago was living with my parents. They werent taking care of her to well. Having money problems which I understand. I offered to take Annie until they could get things worked out again. They refused up until now. But with her being pregnant because they werent being smart they no longer want her at their house. So now she is here. She doesnt like other cats because she hasnt been around them. She is tolerating Kitten and Gheery. Lily does not like her at all. So I have a new cat (Annie) and will be having kittens soon. I will see if I can get the contract from my parents. I dont know if they know where it is. I dont have it here with me.
post #4 of 12
NO WAY is that male a siamese, snowshoe or any other breed - its a mixed breed cat - not a purebred at all. In fact its not even a POINTED cat - its a classic tabby. Not sure of the color - its an odd shade, but that lady is a backyard breeder of the worse kind. How she can even claim her cats are purebred I'll never know!

Personally, I'd have the mother spayed as soon as you can after the kittens are weaned, and I'll be d**mned if that breeder would get any of the kittens; or find homes for them. I'd get every single kitten spayed/neutered and find my own homes. What's the breeder gonna do about it? She can't enforce anything IMO.

And you won't even get any pointed kittens at all - let alone seal/blue - you might get some unusual marked kittens but they would not be purebred.
post #5 of 12
In all honesty, the cat has yellow eyes (blue cat eyes reflect red) and looks nothing like either breed.

And from the sound of that contract, it seems as if the breeder's just seeking to sell kittens without having to feed or otherwise take care of them herself (100% profit), and your parents just got suckered along for a fairly wild ride...

I could understand if she wanted to strengthen her lines with one of Annie's offspring, but that doesn't seem to be the case if all she wants to do is breed Annie and sell all of her kittens while you ante all of the care, space and costs.
post #6 of 12
And on top of that, breed a pet quality Snowshoe too. You can't get the right markings with a cat that has the wrong ones!
post #7 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
NO WAY is that male a siamese, snowshoe or any other breed - its a mixed breed cat - not a purebred at all. In fact its not even a POINTED cat - its a classic tabby. Not sure of the color - its an odd shade, but that lady is a backyard breeder of the worse kind. How she can even claim her cats are purebred I'll never know!

Personally, I'd have the mother spayed as soon as you can after the kittens are weaned, and I'll be d**mned if that breeder would get any of the kittens; or find homes for them. I'd get every single kitten spayed/neutered and find my own homes. What's the breeder gonna do about it? She can't enforce anything IMO.

And you won't even get any pointed kittens at all - let alone seal/blue - you might get some unusual marked kittens but they would not be purebred.
You dont think the contract would hold? I think (not sure) that I felt the babies last night. She wasnt to into me touching her belly. The last few days she's attacked me for even trying. But last night I got her into a really loving mood and she let me touch her belly a little. I felt about 3 or 4 little bumps. I checked the other cats just to make sure they didnt have those. And they dont. I'm bringing her to the vet today. Bagheera is sick with something. He sounds like a rat with myco. Which is like a weird wheezing noise. I cant really describe it but its loud and the poor boy is miserable. I had to take off the morning for work. I figured I might as well take her in too. So we shall see what the vet has to say about Miss Annie Rose. I dont want her to have the kittens if I can get out of it I will. Thanks!
post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonOddity042 View Post
In all honesty, the cat has yellow eyes (blue cat eyes reflect red) and looks nothing like either breed.

And from the sound of that contract, it seems as if the breeder's just seeking to sell kittens without having to feed or otherwise take care of them herself (100% profit), and your parents just got suckered along for a fairly wild ride...

I could understand if she wanted to strengthen her lines with one of Annie's offspring, but that doesn't seem to be the case if all she wants to do is breed Annie and sell all of her kittens while you ante all of the care, space and costs.
My parents stuck me with a mess to clean up. I hope they dont expect to get Annie Rose back after this. They arent even cat people. What a mess I'm in!
post #9 of 12
I'd give the cat back SPAYED to your parents - that way she won't be bred again.

I haven't seen the contract, but I would bet you don't have to give any of the kittens back or let her find homes. Have a paralegal look over that contract - seems unenforcable to me on the breeder having control over the kittens.

Plus, if there is nothing in the contract about the kittens being unspayed/unneutered, I'd go ahead and get all of them done. Even if the breeder was insistant on finding homes, those kittens would not become breeders!
post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I'd give the cat back SPAYED to your parents - that way she won't be bred again.

I haven't seen the contract, but I would bet you don't have to give any of the kittens back or let her find homes. Have a paralegal look over that contract - seems unenforcable to me on the breeder having control over the kittens.

Plus, if there is nothing in the contract about the kittens being unspayed/unneutered, I'd go ahead and get all of them done. Even if the breeder was insistant on finding homes, those kittens would not become breeders!
Thanks. My mom went with me to the vets (to pay for Annie's bill) and afterwards she came here. She played with Annie for a while. I could tell she wanted to tell me something. Her and my dad decided they dont want Annie any more and were wondering if I wanted her. If I didnt my mom would keep her but they just didnt think they had the time,money and energy to deal with her any more. I told her I would keep her here. But that at any time they changed their mind I would bring her back to them in a heart beat. I told them when they first got her that they didnt need and probably couldnt handle a new kitten. They had just lost our 16 year old cat. I think they thought a kitten would magically be an adult cat and behave itself. They just weren prepared for a kitten/young cat. This is the first time my parents have ever even thought about getting rid of one of their animals. Poor Annie at least she will be able to see them. I will definatly have them spayed and neuterd it said nothing about that in the contract. It just said they couldnt spay Annie. Said nothing about the kittens. I think I need to talk to the breeder. I just dread doing it. I know she will get ticked off at me for accusing her of lieing about the male. But I know I have to talk to he eventually. I just dont know what to say! The vet said Annie has about 3 weeks left. She felt a full uterus. She said it was to early to tell how many yet or even to guess. Annie has gained 1 lb already. But she was always extremely thin.
post #11 of 12
Personally, I would NOT contact the breeder at all. Maybe she will forget about it; let her be the one to contact you. And have someone look at that contract before she calls so you have a leg or two to stand on.

How close does this breeder live? Would she actually come and look at the kittens? If she's out of state or many hours driving time, I'd almost lie to her and tell her none of the kittens survived and you took her in to be spayed. Anything to prevent Annie from being bred again
post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Personally, I would NOT contact the breeder at all. Maybe she will forget about it; let her be the one to contact you. And have someone look at that contract before she calls so you have a leg or two to stand on.

How close does this breeder live? Would she actually come and look at the kittens? If she's out of state or many hours driving time, I'd almost lie to her and tell her none of the kittens survived and you took her in to be spayed. Anything to prevent Annie from being bred again
The breeder is like an hour and 10/15 minutes away from where I live. My parents live farther away from her. I dont think she would come down here just to look at the kittens. She's not to involved. The only time she ever called was this last time apparently. I know when I was living at home she never called. I might just tell her that
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