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How do I tell?

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
Hello I'm new here. I was searching for info on pregnant cats and came upon this board. A little about me before I get started. My names Amber I have 4 cats. Tiger Lily 9 year old (10 next month) torbie spayed, Annie Rose 2 year old (3 in Dec) Snowshoe, Kitten 9 month old Black and White DSH spayed and last but not least the only boy Bagheera 4 month old Black Siamese mix Neutered. Bagheera was a foster failure. The keep em fairy hit hard with him. He's such a good boy and fit in so well we had to keep him.

Now my problem. Annie Rose as you could probably tell is the only one who isnt spayed. She is my parents cat technically. They bought her from a breeder. Well apparently I dont know any details really. I just found out about this little detail when Annie was shipped off. Anyways getting back to the problem. Apparently in the contract with the breeder (supposed to be show breeder) said that she had full rights to take Annie back until she was bred and reared a litter of kittens that she would have most of the control over. I had been begging my parents to fix Annie ever since she was 4 months old. They never would give me a good reason why not. Now I know they knew I would have had a fit and I did. I dont know what they were thinking signing soemthing that said that.

Anyways. Two weeks ago Annie went into heat. The breeder called around the same time and asked when her next heat would be. Mom told her she was in heat. Breeder said mom and dad had to bring Annie over for a few days so she could breed her to her new male. She said they were a perfect match blah blah blah. I got home from work noticed Annie was gone and they tell me what was going on. So 2 days later the breeder calls. She's not sure if Annie got bred but she was beating the crap out of her other cats. We needed to come and get her. So I drive up there (over an hour away) and get Annie. I cuss out breeder telling her Annie is not show quality so therefore should not be bred. Plus her temperment isnt great and niether is her health. She got mad at me and said I better not do anything to her or she will take her away from us.

Day after I contacted the vet about getting her spayed (behind parents back). There's no way I would willingly bring kittens into this world. Vet said she doubts she was bred but that its not a good idea to get her fixed. She asked if I really wanted to chance getting her taken away. Vet said the breeder would know if Annie was bred. Apparently they make alot of noise?

Fast forward 2 weeks to now. Annie Rose who has always been way to thin (would not gain weight for nothing) is filling out. She now looks like a slightly thin cat instead of a skeleton almost. You can see her nipples. They look fairly large. They are much larger then the other girls. I never noticed them before. I hadnt felt any reason to inspect them so to be honest I dont know if they were always more visible then the other cats or not. She's gotten alot sweeter. She never liked me and was very independent with every one. She would except attention every once in a while but preffered to be left alone. All of a sudden she is Miss Sweetheart. She's come out of hiding and is giving head butts and rubbing all over everyone.

Basically I am wondering if she sounds pregnant. We are waiting hopefully for her to come into heat soon. (She's already late by 4 days) I am unsure of what steps to take. I honestly never thought I would be put into a position like this. Any advice would be appreciated.

Here are a few pics of the cats.

Bagheera


Llily


Kitten


Annie Rose
post #2 of 12
hiya,
What an amazing story, that breeder needs to be taught a lesson she obviously has no passion when it comes to cats and just wants the credibility and money. My cat, Misty has just had a litter of three, to which two have fabulous homes to go to (we will keep one) future owners are relatives, in any other case we wouldnt of allowed her to breed.
You seem extremley dedicated to your cats, by the sound of Annie Rose's behaviour I would say she is showing signs of pregnancy, but i would get her to a vet to make sure. Misty showed all of these signs in early weeks, she began to sleep alot more too. I hope some of this has helped, and i wish you the best of luck, sadie x
post #3 of 12
What you have described sounds as though it is an agreement between your parents (future owners of Annie Rose) and the Breeder (current owner of Annie Rose). While this type of arrangement is not horribly common, it is sometimes made. I have offered it myself once. My gently given advice to you is to stay out of it. This girl belongs to the breeder until a litter is produced and weaned from her - and from the sounds of it, your parents made that agreement whether you agree with it or not. If you go behind everyone's back and alter this girl, you leave yourself open to civil litigation from the Breeder/Owner. The breeder will take care of the litter and place them and then transfer ownership of Annie Rose to your parents at which time she can be spayed. If you feel as strongly about it as you seem to, please just let me ask you to ponder the following question ...

Is this ~really~ the hill you want to die on?

As for the signs of pregnancy, my educated guess would be to say probably so. If she was in heat (or even if she wasn't) and intact male cats had access to her, then definately yes.
post #4 of 12
Quote:
She's not sure if Annie got bred but she was beating the crap out of her other cats. We needed to come and get her. So I drive up there (over an hour away) and get Annie.
Gaye..I can appreciate your advice..but I do wonder about the statement above. It sounds as if the OP has Annie now and that neither her parents or the breeder is taking responsibility for her. Are you suggesting that the OP call the breeder and tell her about the fact that Annie looks pregnant and request that the breeder come and get Annie?? (Just trying to get clarity on what should be the "next steps").

Katie
post #5 of 12
Quickly, as I am on my way out the door to go to work now ...

The OP should contact the breeder and let them know of the cat's condition as it presents, offer the breeder access in the way of a time/day to come and observe the cat's condition for herself and then politely ask how she is to comply with the rest of the agreement.
post #6 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxMistyxX View Post
hiya,
What an amazing story, that breeder needs to be taught a lesson she obviously has no passion when it comes to cats and just wants the credibility and money. My cat, Misty has just had a litter of three, to which two have fabulous homes to go to (we will keep one) future owners are relatives, in any other case we wouldnt of allowed her to breed.
You seem extremley dedicated to your cats, by the sound of Annie Rose's behaviour I would say she is showing signs of pregnancy, but i would get her to a vet to make sure. Misty showed all of these signs in early weeks, she began to sleep alot more too. I hope some of this has helped, and i wish you the best of luck, sadie x
Thanks. I never did like this breeder. She always seemed just in it for the money. Now that she has decided to breed Annie at all makes me realize I was right from the begnning. I told my parents there were plenty of kittens in shelters that look like Snowshoes. Why not rescue instead of buying from a breeder. I know there's no way I will get her spayed until the breeder says ok. My mom got upset when I told her I had brought her to the vet to look into getting her spayed. She is sure the breeder will take her back and place her with someone else. So if Annie is pregnant and I think she is I hope things work out so we can get her spayed. The breeder sent a pic of the male she bred Annie too. I am shocked to be honest. He doesnt even look like a snowshoe. She said he is a Lynx Point Snowshoe/ Siamese mix. She said its perfectly ok to use siamese's in breeding Snowshoes? Is that correct? Here's a pic of him. My personal opinion is he doesnt even look full siamese. She told my mom not to worry that he is registered and that he will add size and subtance to Annie's kittens. I know nothing of breeding at all does that make sence?
post #7 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef View Post
The breeder will take care of the litter and place them and then transfer ownership of Annie Rose to your parents at which time she can be spayed. If you feel as strongly about it as you seem to, please just let me ask you to ponder the following question ...

Is this ~really~ the hill you want to die on?

As for the signs of pregnancy, my educated guess would be to say probably so. If she was in heat (or even if she wasn't) and intact male cats had access to her, then definately yes.
Well the kittens will be here with us. She will just place them in homes and do all that stuff. Annie isnt going any where. She was so stressed out when she came home. She hid for almost a week. I also think she is pregnant. I guess I a just going to hope she is so we can get her for good and not have to worry about the breeder swooping in and taking her.
post #8 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef View Post
Quickly, as I am on my way out the door to go to work now ...

The OP should contact the breeder and let them know of the cat's condition as it presents, offer the breeder access in the way of a time/day to come and observe the cat's condition for herself and then politely ask how she is to comply with the rest of the agreement.
Thanks I will do that. Knowing her I dont think she will come. She will want me to bring Annie to her. I will ask her to come over though and talk to her about how we go about this whole mess.
post #9 of 12
Lamb, you are right about one thing ... it is a mess. I am sorry you have to go through this but as it is, it is what it is.

In the way of answering your questions about the stud cat used to breed Annie Rose, yes, it is acceptable for a Siamese to be a suitable outcross for Snowshoes. Granted, he doesn't look like either a Siamese or a Snowshoe to me, but if his pedigree states that he is, then he is a suitable outcross for the breeder to use.

I am glad you will be keeping Annie rose there with you. It will be a unique experience for you to go through the pregnancy and birth of the kittens with her. Learn all you can and as a suggestion, you might start with this page:

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74659

Please feel free to post any questions or concerns you have here We have a very nice, very knowledgable group here in the TCS Pregnant Cats and Kitten Care Forum - I know you will be right at home in no time.
post #10 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef View Post
Lamb, you are right about one thing ... it is a mess. I am sorry you have to go through this but as it is, it is what it is.

In the way of answering your questions about the stud cat used to breed Annie Rose, yes, it is acceptable for a Siamese to be a suitable outcross for Snowshoes. Granted, he doesn't look like either a Siamese or a Snowshoe to me, but if his pedigree states that he is, then he is a suitable outcross for the breeder to use.

I am glad you will be keeping Annie rose there with you. It will be a unique experience for you to go through the pregnancy and birth of the kittens with her. Learn all you can and as a suggestion, you might start with this page:

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74659

Please feel free to post any questions or concerns you have here We have a very nice, very knowledgable group here in the TCS Pregnant Cats and Kitten Care Forum - I know you will be right at home in no time.
Thanks for the link! I will I am sure have tons of questions. I'm digging thru all the links. There's alot of them. As far as the experience of having kittens. Ive raised litters of kittens (orphans) from young ages (youngest were 2 1/2 weeks) for my local animal shelter. So I know about kittens just not about pregnant cats and the birthing. I will be a nervous wreck. Annie would be the last one of my cats that I would want to be a mama. I am worried I will end up having to care for them. She just isnt very nice. She was a horrible kitten. I hope they dont act like she did. I dont know how I will handle 5 or more Evil Fredrieka's (Annie's nickname). I hate being in this situation.
post #11 of 12
Hey,

I think you got great advice from Gay.


I own a Snowshoe (female) and 2 lynx point siamese ( 1 male, 1 female) (althought mine don't come with papers unfortunately.) I just wanted to say the kittens should be interesting looks wise.
post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveSiamese View Post
Hey,

I think you got great advice from Gay.


I own a Snowshoe (female) and 2 lynx point siamese ( 1 male, 1 female) (althought mine don't come with papers unfortunately.) I just wanted to say the kittens should be interesting looks wise.

Yeah. They will be that I suppose. Annie is a very pretty cat. Thats what everyone says. She was the cutest kitten. And Frosty the breeders male is very handsome.
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