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what do you think? behavior or cystitis? long

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Fang peed on the rug right in front of me last night, it was an abundant pee. shortly before the peeing he and his step brother were playing with catmint from the yard and becoming pretty frisky about it, getting a little rough. I told them gently that's enough, and redirected them with a gentle push away from each other. Shortly after that Fang took a nice long pee. It sounds like behavior but the other thing is we just stopped taking clavamox on saturday for cystitis. there was no blood or crystals, but the protein was hi and the vet says that was cystitis. I did call him today and explained all and we are now going to give Fang valium. But I am still wondering if it isn't still cystitis.
On top of all that I just can't stand him peeing on my wall to wall carpet. I was just dumbfounded. I kept my wits about me enough to not scream and knock him over, I was so upset when I saw him doing this. I wish I had though fast enough to put something under him to catch some pee. If I had realized he was going to go as long as he did I would have had time to go to the kitchen and get something. Anyway, what do you think? Am I going to have to deal with this forever? I rescued fang around 6 months ago. I can't afford to rip up carpets, this has me really upset.
post #2 of 15
He just peed once? To me that sounds behavioral, especially since you said it was a lot of pee all at once. Nedicks did this last week when we came back from a long weekend away--once in the empty suitcase and the next day on the wall and carpet. She too has a history of urinary problems--she has crystals--and it is my understanding that cats with medical issues like that (particularly cystitis) will also sometimes pee inappropriately when they are stressed or overexcited.

Before you rush to judgment on him though, I would just watch to see if he does it again.
post #3 of 15
well my cat has peed in front of me and we found out that he had crystaluria. I'm not sure what to tell you. Sorry.
post #4 of 15
The fact that it was a long pee would indicate against cystitis, but if you're worried, please go back to your vet. I can't tell you now many times my instincts about my cats have been spot on when all reason seemed against me.

Have you tried feliway plug ins and spray? This can help with peeing outside of the litterbox (it doesn't smell like anything to us, but it's a kitty happy mood pheremon).

Has anything changed recently? New paint, new place, anything? It sounds like he might be reacting to stress.

Has been using the litter box will he had cystitis? If he was having trouble with his litter box, he might be frightened of it - you could try replacing the litterbox so that he doesn't associate the litterbox with pain.

At the time, was your litterbox in use or overfull? One of ours has higher standards of litterbox cleanliness than the others, and if it doesn't meet her standards, she just can't use it - so she'll go somewhere else (she tried hard to be good - she usually peed in a pot plant). In our case, this was solved by adding extra litterboxes.

Remember to clean the area throughly with an emezyme cleaner for pet messes - if you don't, you may not be able to smell it, but Fang can, making the area seem 'legal' to pee in to him. Get a black light and search for any spots so you can get them all.
post #5 of 15
since it was a heavy pee and he just finished a course of anti biotics sounds like behavioral to me. but i would be interested in what you're feeding him and how many litter boxes you have and where the boxes are placed, near walkway or door. also where are their foods? together seperate near a door or other cats food? are they strictly indoor cats? was he ever an outdoor cat? also some herbs can be diuretics and may cause them to loose control of their pee.
post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Well, I am trying to do everything right. I have three cats and three litterboxes, small medium and large. I added the other two when I discovered Fang was peeing in other places. Then I changed the litter in two of the boxes to swheat because I thought he didn't like the chicken feed. The other two use the chicken feed box so I might switch a swheat to chicken feed. Fang prefers the swheat. The boxes are close to each other, but I have no other place to put them. I am freaked out that I have to have three in the first place. When I had my two beautiful females (who have since passed ) we had one litter box and that was it. everyone was fine. Now with these three males, I have to have three boxes, worry about the peeing, jeez, I wish I didn't love them so much. I do have the feliway spray, but for the life of me can't figure out what its supposed to do . I don't see any change, it doesn't make a difference, but then he is not peeing all the time or upset about anything, or nervous with one exception that he does get excited about the neighbors outdoor cat which the other two could care less. He is not spraying, which is what I think the feliway is for. He did a whole pee and did have cystitis, but he has done whole pees before until they diminished enough that I was alarmed at how small the clump was and then we went to the vet. Oh, I ramble. Anyway, Fang was resued from the streets and had a tough life, but he is really being a pain. The other two had a little better of a start, don't pee on my rug, and don't care about the outdoor cat. They also clean their butts properly, which Fang does not do. I didn't give the valium because it knocked my other cats out when I gave it to them, and I don't want to turn him ino a zombie. I need this grief like I need a hole in my head.
thanks for reading all this rant, I wasn't counting on aggravation until they got old.
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
To Ocicat, I got so carried away I didn't answer your questions. The boxes are by the back door in the kitchen, they are private, but a pain when I want to open or shut the door. The food is also in the kitchen (big) at a feeding station with dry food and water, but when we eat wet (twice a day) fang gets fed on the rug in front of the sink, spike is hi on a table and pansy is at the feeding station. spike and fang get fed first and second. All cats are indoor, but he was an outdoor cat and he would like to go out, but he is not a pain about it. He likes sitting at the window. their wet food is trader joes chicken or turkey and dry is purina one regular and sensitive stomach which he has. He had loose stool when I first got him and for months after until he took a course of prednisone and started on the sensitve stomach food. Last week I was adding some powdered cranberry to his wet for his cystitis, but I think he got wise because he stopped eating it, so I stopped, and now he is eating it again. thanks for your help
post #8 of 15
FWIW, I know what you're going through. Polly was just recently diagnosed with cystitis although she's been having problems since last November.

The only way to diagnose cystitis and be 100% sure is to perform a biopsy on the bladder. If your vet hasn't done this, then he or she is making an educated (but most likely correct) guess.

Unfortunately, Fang will probably not stop peeing until his cystitis is cleared up. (There isn't a cure, but it can usually be effectively controlled.) One course of antibiotics may not do it. Fang may have to try several kinds of medication to clear this up, and even once it clears up, he could have flare-ups from time to time, brought on by stress.

He may need to eat special food and a (mostly) canned food diet, and I'd recommend getting him a water fountain if you don't already have one. Kitties with cystitis need as much water as possible to dilute the urine in their bladder and keep inflammation down.

Bottom line, if his urine sample is abnormal, you have to assume it's medical, not behavioral.
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats
To Ocicat, I got so carried away I didn't answer your questions. The boxes are by the back door in the kitchen, they are private, but a pain when I want to open or shut the door. The food is also in the kitchen (big) at a feeding station with dry food and water, but when we eat wet (twice a day) fang gets fed on the rug in front of the sink, spike is hi on a table and pansy is at the feeding station. spike and fang get fed first and second. All cats are indoor, but he was an outdoor cat and he would like to go out, but he is not a pain about it. He likes sitting at the window. their wet food is trader joes chicken or turkey and dry is purina one regular and sensitive stomach which he has. He had loose stool when I first got him and for months after until he took a course of prednisone and started on the sensitve stomach food. Last week I was adding some powdered cranberry to his wet for his cystitis, but I think he got wise because he stopped eating it, so I stopped, and now he is eating it again. thanks for your help

i have to agree with PurrPaws with the cystitis thing. it is possible he previously used that same antibiotic and may not have finished the course. therefore his body would ignore the antibiotics. also some things take much stronger antibiotics along with a prescribed urinary food before they begin to clear up. on the medical side it could be possible that he could have damage to his urethra from the infection and now that he's feeling better and 'flowing free' he might just not be able to hold it!

behaviorly, having the litter boxes in a place that is moved and walked on from inside and outside the house can make some cats uncomfortable. also having it near a draft of a door could also make it strange for them especially if it's a door to the outside where foreign smells can come through. something else is the fact that you have three male cats in one house. unfourtunatly they are going to have to establish their pecking order. this may involve fighting, peeing, scratching or just overall agression towards you, friends or other cats. I know you said he doesnt seem bothered by not going outside, but maybe he's trying to tell you he is with the peeing. espcially since he did it right in front of you! not much i can offer for advice really with that many males in the house and not knowing the cat. might be best to have another vet have a look and speak to a herbalist or feline massage therapist to help calm him and make him more secure.
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
I will watch him for a while. Today he peed in the box with me watching and the clump was about right. I think the other two have bigger litter clumps. I live alone so there isn't much traffic at the back door, just me, and I don't go out while they are doing their business. You might be right about wanting to go out I watched him today and he was clacking at the birds and squirells but going out is not an option. He never tries to run out the door, or even walk out. He stays put whenever I come or go. As long as he uses the box in front of me I can monitor what is going on, and I stand in the kitchen and watch, and scoop, and watch and scoop. They take turns and wait for me to clean up before the next one goes. thanks
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats View Post
I will watch him for a while. Today he peed in the box with me watching and the clump was about right. I think the other two have bigger litter clumps. I live alone so there isn't much traffic at the back door, just me, and I don't go out while they are doing their business. You might be right about wanting to go out I watched him today and he was clacking at the birds and squirells but going out is not an option. He never tries to run out the door, or even walk out. He stays put whenever I come or go. As long as he uses the box in front of me I can monitor what is going on, and I stand in the kitchen and watch, and scoop, and watch and scoop. They take turns and wait for me to clean up before the next one goes. thanks

um, so you watch him pee. in otherwords you are teaching him you need to be around for him to pee. some cats consider peeing a marking or territory thing. if he came in the room and peed on the carpet in front of you, he prolly didn't think he was doing anything wrong. he just wanted you to see him pee.

when cats urinate and have a bowel movement its the one time they are in a voulnerable position. their heart rate goes up and they are on guard. taking up their space and watching them and interupting their covering of each others pee could actually be the problem. he may be associating you with the peeing. after feeding times treat him like a kitten. put him in the box scratch his paw in it and walk away. keep doing this for a while and just clean the boxes once a day or once in the morning and once at night. if need be close him off from the room he's peeing in when you are away or have gone to bed for a little while until he stops this behaivor. when he comes to you and looks as though he's going to go pick him up put him in his box and walk away. might even be an idea to put the food near where he's been using the loo on the carpet.
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
That is interesting, he is peeing for me to watch. Don't they sometimes want you to see if they have a problem? I am in the kitchen when they use the boxes, I do let them finish their cover up, but when they walk away, I scoop and then the next one comes. I just figured I was keeping it pristine for them. I mean if I am in the kitchen and someone goes, I remove it immediately. I did close off the pee room when I am not in there, I hesitate to place him in the box though, because I don't want him to get upset with his box. I did traumatize him early on which led to him pooing in the basement. He had loose bowels and I was wiping his butt as soon as he left the box. I did this exactly 4 times around 6 months ago, and he started pooing in the basement. I shut off the basement from him, stopped wiping his butt, and praised him everytime pooed in the box. He just recently stopped jumping out and running like a bat out of hell as soon as he pooed. HIs bowells are firm now and I don't want to traumatize him with the box anymore. I am afraid to put him in the box and do anything obvious for that reason. I will stop with the good boy now that he seems to have it down. He hasn't peed inappropriately since the first post here, but that doesn't mean he won't. I will be more discreet from now on. thanks for your input.
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats View Post
That is interesting, he is peeing for me to watch. Don't they sometimes want you to see if they have a problem? I am in the kitchen when they use the boxes, I do let them finish their cover up, but when they walk away, I scoop and then the next one comes. I just figured I was keeping it pristine for them. I mean if I am in the kitchen and someone goes, I remove it immediately. I did close off the pee room when I am not in there, I hesitate to place him in the box though, because I don't want him to get upset with his box. I did traumatize him early on which led to him pooing in the basement. He had loose bowels and I was wiping his butt as soon as he left the box. I did this exactly 4 times around 6 months ago, and he started pooing in the basement. I shut off the basement from him, stopped wiping his butt, and praised him everytime pooed in the box. He just recently stopped jumping out and running like a bat out of hell as soon as he pooed. HIs bowells are firm now and I don't want to traumatize him with the box anymore. I am afraid to put him in the box and do anything obvious for that reason. I will stop with the good boy now that he seems to have it down. He hasn't peed inappropriately since the first post here, but that doesn't mean he won't. I will be more discreet from now on. thanks for your input.


yes they will try to show you they have a problem but if he was in pain he would have been straining and wouldn't have soaked the carpet like you said. it would have been a short little pee and maybe a darker color than normal.

as for the putting him in the box, you don't have to make a big deal over it. just let him eat then pick him up cuddle him and put him in the box pet him tell him good boy and walk away with your back to him and leave him be. nothing traumatizing! its just to reinforce the habit of him going to the box when he needs to go. as for the bat out of hell running after pooing. i think most of our cats do that!! lol i know both of mine do
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocicat_steph View Post
yes they will try to show you they have a problem but if he was in pain he would have been straining and wouldn't have soaked the carpet like you said. it would have been a short little pee and maybe a darker color than normal.
Don't assume that the lack of straining or a normal apperance and amount of urine mean it's not a medical problem. When Polly has a flare-up, she doesn't strain, she pees her normal amount and it look normal to me, even though the vet can detect blood.

Don't expect the peeing to stop until you get a clean, clear urine sample, that the vet says is clear.
post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 
things seem to be ok for now. I have an empty box that I intend to put in the kitchen if I see he is having a problem so that I might get a sample. Otherwise they use a needle and take it from the bladder, I don't want to do that unless it is absolutely necessary. Last time he cooperated and peed on the upside down carpet runner. so much for a deterrent that was, but at least I got a sample.
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