Help with "punishment"

That's such a clever idea about a Mom getting the same ring! Then you could wear it when her friends come over and really rub it in..Like mother, like daughter, we do everything together, she wanted to be just like her Mom..like you said, so not cool!

A script to recite to the family, there's a thought!

I still feel the main issue here, aside from any risk of infection, is that she disobeyed you when she absolutely knew you were against it. This is what warrants some form of discipline.

Oh my parents would have murdered me if I did that at 13. I wasn't even allowed to dye my hair until I was moved out of the house. The 18 years rule didn't apply to me if I was still living under my parents roof. But I tell ya, once I move out, I began dying my hair monthly and I got several piercings.

Being young I think, cool piercings, I love them! Especially lip piercings. But then your daughter is 13. That is awfully young to be pierced and taking care of it and everything... I would show her infected pictures. Tell her you are concerned and stuff. Don't yell, give her specific reasons to take it out other then the fact that she completely disobeyed you.

First off a young man died when I was younger due to a peircind he had gotten, without his parent permission OF COURSE, they hit some kind of nerve and he died. Sometimes when we are young we dont realize the seriousness of the consequences of our actions.

As the parent's you have the authority and the responsiblity to both ensure that she recieves not only punishment, but more responsible. I think that letting her keep that lip ring is just like saying you can keep it, but this is how you are paying for it, and that still doesn't send the message you want to send. You want to send the message that says I'm the parent, your Father and I said no lip ring, and that's final! Once you loose control of parenthood, it's lost. I hope you seriously make her take the lip ring out b/c there are serious risks for professionals, let alone another child who only watched mom do it. Also if she has braces that hightens the potential for infection.

I saw show her who's boss, make her take that thing out of her lip, take her to the physician to make sure she isn't ALREADY infected, show her pictures of ppl who died due to infections, and pictures of what kind of infections could be growing in her mouth right now because of that thing, and limit the time she gets to spend with the young lady that pierced her lip.

While I'm never one to be anti-piercing, good god make her take it out and please get her to a doctor. Unless she has an autoclave on hand (which is required for all piercing/tattoo shops, and the artist has to show you the bag the needle came out of and open the needle in front of you), she didn't do it "antiseptically". I don't care how much she poured alcohol on that needle (and please god tell me she didn't use a piercing gun to do this! If she did, you could be in a whole other world of trouble) or how much she boiled the needle, that is *NOT* the proper way to sterilize something you are about to use to puncture skin!

And also, how big of a ring did she use? One of the problems with lip piercings are the smaller the gauge (like an earring) the more likely it is to rip through her lip. My piercer wouldn't let me go too thin because of this and said "think of it like trying to cut soft butter with string. If you use taut sewing thread, it'll slice right through. If you use thick rope, it wont cut."

I don't believe letting her leave it in because of how uncomfortable it is will work. I've had my lip pierced - it's not uncomfortable and no one treated me differently. I worked for many years with a lip ring in... never had a problem with jobs... actually got hired once because of it. Far from uncomfortable, it was actually fun to play with. It took me quite a number of years before I took it out, and that was only because I lost the bead and didn't get a new ring in time.

Also, once you've had it in for many years, the hole never really closes. I've had mine out for a few years now and while the hole did shrink, I can still put an earring post through there.

I have a couple of "non-traditional" piercings myself, and I've even thought about getting my lip pierced - but I'm 27! I decided not to because of dress code considerations at work.

Everyone has had good suggestions, but I just want to chime in with the "make her take it out and get her to a doctor soon" suggestion. A piercing that isn't done by a professional piercer with clean, autoclaved equipment in a clean, professional shop is just too much of a risk, IMHO.

I would have been whipped with a belt for doing something like this, but I don't recommend that. ^^;;

I like the report writing idea, and I guess I'd probably take away some privileges, too. Sort of the "If I can't trust you do follow the rules at home, I can't trust you to go out with your friends" etc etc.

Ok, I am going to have to disagree with many of the people here. I was a professional piercer for several years, still do them on occasion, and the worst thing you can do right now is make her take it out. The ends will close up first and if there is any infection, it will be trapped inside, causing an abscess. Keep an eye on it, and as long as it is not secreting anything green or brownish, swelling more than a little, or being warm around the area it is ok. Secreting pink, clear, or whitish liquid is normal healing. After it is healed, about 4-6 weeks, then it can, and should come out.
No one has ever died from hitting a nerve during a piercing. That is an urban legend. The only piercing related death I have ever heard of that has been proven was a woman that had 1400 piercings, and they got septic.

Actually it is not. I went to school with him. I don't know much about Urban legends, b/c I don't listen to them. I only repeat fact. He was 13 and we went to school with him. His mother and my mother were friends. These are actual facts. I don't deal in urban legends. FYI. I also had a piercing, in my tongue, not to mention OTHER places and it healed just fine from taking it out. I just decided I didn't want it, and I had nothing oozing from it whatsoever, but it is up to you. However, a true physican can advise you beter than ANYONE Which is who she really should see right now. Because I've never heard of a let it heal to let it heal rule. Even when I got my piercings and trust, I had many, all professionally done. No at home piercing should go unseen by a doctor the risk of infection is just too darn high, and a child dying of infection over a ring in the lip so isn't worth it her life is much more precious than that. Infections, as I dealt with nursing, can move quickly and quietly. They can sneak up and show little symptoms and by the time real symptoms show it could be too late. Her braces and JUST the sheer disobience are among other factors as well.
Plus a real piercer couldn't have pierced w/o parents permission, so consten does play a big factor in this. Let her know it could heal wrong, it could infect, she could be stuck with a scar, most teens are already worried about their skin condition. But as the mother you have the final say.

Take her to the dr and have them tell u the best thing to do to be able to take it out.. You told her no. No means no. It dont mean well mom said no but... she let me keep it in anyway thats sending mixed mesages. She might get put on a antibiotic maybe even a tetnas shot depending on last time she got it. But i would not let her keep it after i told her no.

I totally agree!

My sister did this, with both her nose and her navel. She was, 15 when she did it.

But mum told her she could have thm done, but she HAD to have them done at the same place she got her navel done..(like I did) but she took off for the weekend and had her firneds that had some sort of peircing kit do it for her. Her nose healed up quite nicely, but her navel was infected for awhile, and has only recently healed.

If your daughter is anything like my sister, then no punishment will prove effective.

Good luck dealing with her.

At very least, she should see a doctor who can then advise how to best to remove it and address the issue of infection. I also think that she need to be the one to contact the orthodontist, explain what happened and see how this may adversely affect her orthodontic work.

She should have to account for the cost of the doctor's visit somehow - either additional chores, or docking an allowance. She has to see there is a consequence other than making mom and dad mad.

I really like the idea of having her research it fully to train her to think things through (though she is at the age where impulse takes over reason).

Good luck and let us know how you fare.

Ms Joshica- There does not exist a nerve in your lip that would kill you if you hit it. It is possible that somebody died from a systemic infection after an improperly done piercing, or that they had a severe allergic reaction, blood poisoning, etc. Perhaps you simply misunderstood the story or remembered it wrong after so many years, but it's medically impossible to die from "hitting a nerve". Unless the piercing severed his spine. I agree with having this child see a doctor though, or even a dermatologist who might be able to fix it to lessen the scarring, if there would be any.

I tried to do my bellybutton when I was about 14 myself, and ended up with a lot of pain and blood and no piercing. Gross. It's still scarred, but it's healed. Now I just have my three in the ears and one in my nose, and I think that's it for me.

Originally Posted by jlutgendorf

What she needs to learn is that adults have to deal with the consequences of their actions. A logical consequence of a "DIY" lip piercing is a nasty infection. I would make her a Dr.s appointment to get it checked out, cleaned out and let the Dr talk to her about appropriate ways to be pierced. Safe ways. Then, make her pay for the visit. Even if your insurance pays for it, show her the bill and tell her she needs to pay you back for it. She was "adult" enough to go ahead and pierce her lip, she's adult enough to pay for the Dr.s visit. This gives her a better idea of the cost of a Dr.s visit when nothing's wrong (hopefully it's not infected!). Now imagine the cost if it did get infected!

THEN, make her research good safe places to get pierced. She needs to call around and ask questions about health and safety standards, costs, and the age she'll need to be to have proceedures done without parental consent. I'm guessing it'll be 18. She's already demonstrated she'll go against your wishes, if she wants to do it again, at least make sure she knows how to do it safely and legally. (which will hopefully mean she'll wait until she's 18 for the next form of body art!)

Oh, also make sure you take lots and lots of pictures, so you can pull them out when she goes on her first date and show them off to her suitor!

~Julia

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Originally Posted by dawnofsierra

With any punishment you may choose, make it clear that she's not being punished for getting the piercing, but rather for blatantly going against your wishes by disobeying and getting it done after you had clearly told her no.

Another thought, she went into this decision without knowing all the facts, therefore, she should write you a report of the various aspects of this type of piercing, including the importance of a trained professional performing any piercing, the risks of not using properly sterilized equipment such as infection at best in addition to the likelihood of transferring various illnesses. She should include the risk of infection to any piercing, most especially a home performed piercing involving the lip, the signs and symptoms of infection, treatment, etc. The long term ramifications such as the suggested potential wear on tooth enamel and the permanence of having a hole in your lip with a possible mark remaining even if it's allowed to close up and then whatever you can think of to make the report a little more miserable for her

Just my thoughts...

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I think these are great suggestions - both very adult, and level-headed on your part (I remember it being hard for a teenager to take their parents seriously about "acting like an adult" if the parent is acting like a hysterical teen!)

I would also bar her from sleep overs either at others' houses or at your house until she is a little older (say 15) - she clearly seems to think of them as 'the land of do as you please'. Worse things than hair cutting or lip piercing can happen on a sleep over (my cousin was repeated abused on sleep overs at the home of her mother's friend) - barring her from sleep overs until she's older (explaining why) tells her that you need to be able to trust her completely to act responsibly before you let her go on sleep overs again. Thirteen is a tough age, and clearly she's not up to it yet.

Tip: if you go with this option, even if she's a saint for the next year, do not relent. No sleep overs until the date you've set (be that 15th birthday, two years from today, whatever). Tell her that you're impressed that she's grown up and behaving well, whatever, reward her in other ways, but she needs to learn that a parent's word is written-in-stone law. (Don't tell her that part though, just keep 'on message').

Excellent ideas everyone! I knew I could turn to you guys.

But she took the stud out herself. I found a note on the bathroom mirror this morning that she was sorry and didn't know what she was thinking when she did it in the first place.

just because she took it out on her own an apologized doesn't mean she shouldn't be punished IMO. I suggest you still give her a bill or part of a bill to pay for a few months etc. or one of the other punishments suggested. She will really understand better that No means No even if she "undos" what she did.

Originally Posted by ms_joshica

Actually it is not. I went to school with him. I don't know much about Urban legends, b/c I don't listen to them. I only repeat fact. He was 13 and we went to school with him. His mother and my mother were friends. These are actual facts. I don't deal in urban legends. FYI. I also had a piercing, in my tongue, not to mention OTHER places and it healed just fine from taking it out. I just decided I didn't want it, and I had nothing oozing from it whatsoever, but it is up to you. However, a true physican can advise you beter than ANYONE

Which is who she really should see right now. Because I've never heard of a let it heal to let it heal rule. Even when I got my piercings and trust, I had many, all professionally done. No at home piercing should go unseen by a doctor the risk of infection is just too darn high, and a child dying of infection over a ring in the lip so isn't worth it her life is much more precious than that. Infections, as I dealt with nursing, can move quickly and quietly. They can sneak up and show little symptoms and by the time real symptoms show it could be too late. Her braces and JUST the sheer disobience are among other factors as well.
Plus a real piercer couldn't have pierced w/o parents permission, so consten does play a big factor in this. Let her know it could heal wrong, it could infect, she could be stuck with a scar, most teens are already worried about their skin condition. But as the mother you have the final say.

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I tend to agree with this post. I have had MANY MANY MANY piercings (all done professionally), and some were self-piercings/hacky home jobs...the self-piercings were performed between the ages of 13-18. Those have since been removed...I am WELL informed of the dangers of self-piercing, or home piercings. I would make her take it out, however, as a matter of principle...it's the right thing to do as a mother. But I agree that removing jewelry from an unhealed piercing is dangerous...there is the risk of trapping an infection inside the wound and creating an abcess. Once she removes the jewelry, make her clean the area the area thoroughly with a gentle cleanser on the outside, and with a gentle mouthwash to clean the inside of her lip. This should be done once a day, until you're sure the piercing has fully closed.

I would NOT advise her to go to a doctor if there are no signs of infection, which would be redness, swelling, a greenish or yellowish pus, hot to the touch, etc. The reason why I say this, is that most doctor's are not "piercing-friendly," meaning that many discourage the practice unnecessarily, and are actually not well-educated on piercing aftercare...many over-generalize, and feed into the myths that are floating around out there about it. Now, if she does get an infection, PLEASE take her to a doctor...she will need antibiotics in order to get rid of it.

Your daughter needs to know a few things:
1) Self-piercing and home piercings are extremely dangerous things. Piercings can only be done safely by a professional...and a true professional will NOT pierce a young person without parental consent. Most wait until the child is 18. This is as much for safety reasons, as it is the law in most states. A piercing MUST be performed with a piercing needle, that has been fully autoclaved, and used ONLY once out of the package. The environment in which a piercing takes place must be sterile...and by that, I mean COMPLETELY sterile. There are other safety issues as well...such as proper piercing placement (where on the lip it is safe to pierce), proper measure of the lip and jewelry size, and appropriate aftercare procedures. None of the above (with the exception of aftercare) can be accomplished in someone's HOME, by another 13 year-old, on another 13 year-old's body. What she did was very risky, and downright dangerous...not to mention disrespectful of you as her mother.
2) She is 13. 13!!! She is living under YOUR roof, eating your food, wearing clothes that YOU provide, etc. This is not about "HER" body...because guess what? Her body is YOURS legally until she turns 18!!!!!!!! You shelter that body, feed it, and clothe it. And if you do not consent to her lip being pierced at this age, she MUST respect it...and her FRIENDS must respect your decisions for your daughter as well. I would most certainly call the friend's mother, and tell her what happened...this child needs to know that what she did for your daughter was unacceptable in your home as well, and that she will not be welcome in your home for a few weeks.

As far as a consequence, I would keep her in the house, and remove priviledges...take away her phone priviledges, cut her allowance (if she gets one), and keep her inside. As a mother, I would also do some research into piercings, and look up all the dangers and risks of self-piercing, print it, and discuss your findings with her. Tell her that piercings are a responsibility, and it's about respecting your body...she disrespected your requests, which further proves she is NOT ready for a professional piercing. If she wants to behave maturely (and most 13 year-old girls have the DESIRE for maturity...it just doesn't come naturally yet), then she needs to prove she is mature by waiting until she is older. THIS is maturity...being able to wait for things we want. And since we're talking about maturity, she will need some extra things to do around the house...help clean the bathroom, take the trash out, help with dishes, help vaccuum, etc.

Good luck! I remember being 13 like it was yesterday!!! Kids want what they want NOW, and sometimes make poor choices. I know you can help her make better decisions!

I know everyone is going to disagree with me.. BUT..

I have never understood how we teach a child that they have rights over their own body (eg. no-one can touch you without your permission etc..) but then curb their self expression with things like piercings.

Piercings, unlike tattoos are non permenant except for a tiny hole or scar (if done and treated properly).

What I think you should do it take her to a doctor or a preofessional piercer and get them to talk to her about her piercing as it is bound to end in tears if done by a friend and not a professional.

The, tell her once it has healed (this will take a loooonnnnggggg time), if she still wants to have her lip pierced you want her to save up like an adult and go to a professional piercer.

Hav a word with her about the reasons why you dont want her to have it done, eg. the way people will treat her, that she will end up with a hole in her face long after the fashion trend has ended (my friend had her lip pierced for a year when she was 14, she is now 21 and still has a hole there) and get your dentist to warn her of the dangers of it eroding her tooth enamel etc. A professional piercer (or the ones around my area anyway) will also be able to have a talk with her and point out the pros and cons of this piercing.

If she STILL wants it done, after all of this, then i say it's up to her. Make her compromise, tell her she has to wait until she is 14 or 15 but let her get it done. She could always wear a clar 'invisible' stud when visiting family and something discreet all other times.

Or maybe you could compromise and let her get another set of holes in her ears or her bellybutton done?

Does her school have a policy on facial piercings?

I don't know if this was suggested so I might be repeating. I did read where someone thought it would be difficult for a 13-year old to pay for bills when they probably don't get an allowance or able to work. But you still could make up an itemized bill with her share of what she owes for the month. Then asign household chores equivalent to certain ammounts. So essentially she is working for you to pay off her months expenses. This will teach her financial responsibility when putting cash on top of a chore, but in turn putting that cash towards what she owes you for that month.

Originally Posted by wookie130

2) This is not about "HER" body...because guess what? Her body is YOURS legally until she turns 18!!!!!!!! You shelter that body, feed it, and clothe it.

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This is a very dangerous message to give any child.

They should be absolutely certain that their parents respect their bodily integrity and that they respect that the child's body is the child's own.

A lot of abuse is tolerated by children and adults because they have a poor sense of their body as their own.

A mother's concern for her child not having a piercing to young is about preserving the health of her child and teaching the child to properly care for her body, not a power struggle over to whom the body belongs.

As a seperate matter, I am also uncertain that you are correct that that is even the legal situation - I would be surprised if the child's body is not legally considered the child's, and the parent is expected to act in the child's best interest until they reach their majority.

Originally Posted by Satai

This is a very dangerous message to give any child.

They should be absolutely certain that their parents respect their bodily integrity and that they respect that the child's body is the child's own.

A lot of abuse is tolerated by children and adults because they have a poor sense of their body as their own.

A mother's concern for her child not having a piercing to young is about preserving the health of her child and teaching the child to properly care for her body, not a power struggle over to whom the body belongs.

As a seperate matter, I am also uncertain that you are correct that that is even the legal situation - I would be surprised if the child's body is not legally considered the child's, and the parent is expected to act in the child's best interest until they reach their majority.

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reminds me of a legal case a while ago when a child refused to have a organ transplant that would save her life so her parents took her to court to gain custody over her body.

I *think* the judge ruled that the childs body was her own property but then allowed the transplant under the mental health act or something?