That is so sad. Most dog behaviorists say never to leave a dog with kids alone -- children are unpredictable and apt to startle even the most good-natured dog. Moreover, there's a good chance your friend's dog was being protective of the new baby. Read Jan Fennell's "the Dog Listener" which points out that, in the absence of the human being a strong alpha, even a timid dog feels it has to become pack leader and this can stress it out and lead to all sorts of problems. Wish they could have rehomed it.
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Putting a dog down if it bites??
- Thread starter trouts mom
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They had already put Riley to sleep (RIP Riley), When I posted this thread. I just wanted to know what you guys thought.
Well, the whole issue was that they would have felt horrified if they gave him away and he bit someone else. They weren't about to spend thousands on a behaviourist, so the only option for them was to have him put down. I know it wasn't easy for them and they still can't talk about it because its very hard for them. They did love him, but once a dog does that..even with some training or whatever..I don't think you could fully trust that dog around your kids anymore.
It's all very sad.
Well, the whole issue was that they would have felt horrified if they gave him away and he bit someone else. They weren't about to spend thousands on a behaviourist, so the only option for them was to have him put down. I know it wasn't easy for them and they still can't talk about it because its very hard for them. They did love him, but once a dog does that..even with some training or whatever..I don't think you could fully trust that dog around your kids anymore.
It's all very sad.
i dont think you need to spend thousands on a behaviourist though. there are people you can call who will help for much less than that. if their child needed a specialist for some reason, they'd hire one, right? as far as i'm concerned, the dog is a member of the family too, and deserves similar consideration.
I understand the pain involved for them and I know its a moot point as the dog is gone now (RIP)...But no, a behaviourist doesn't cost thousands and PTS isn't the only option ( I think that's what people are trying to say)..
And again, this dog should not have been re-homed to an environment with children.
Yes, there are some dogs that can't be trusted around children, cats, birds, chickens, etc....But there are options other than PTS.
A couple were dogsitting for an older couple who were going on vacation.
The dog owners (older couple) warned them that the dog would nip out of fear (not breaking skin. It was a small housedog who only went out leashed as well) and told them not to bring any children over. Only they were to come feed and care for the dog. The dog was a rescue in the process of being retrained and was up to date on all of its shots.
The first thing the dogsitters did was bring their 5 year old son over to "pet the cute little dog", it nipped him out of fear (no broken skin), and they rushed the dog to the vet's and had it euthanized.
The owners were of course, far less than happy with their service upon returning home from vacation to find out that their dog was dead.
The dog owners (older couple) warned them that the dog would nip out of fear (not breaking skin. It was a small housedog who only went out leashed as well) and told them not to bring any children over. Only they were to come feed and care for the dog. The dog was a rescue in the process of being retrained and was up to date on all of its shots.
The first thing the dogsitters did was bring their 5 year old son over to "pet the cute little dog", it nipped him out of fear (no broken skin), and they rushed the dog to the vet's and had it euthanized.
The owners were of course, far less than happy with their service upon returning home from vacation to find out that their dog was dead.
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GASP!! I am horrified!!! What happened to the couple that did that? They could have been prosecuted for that, seriously, you can't just put someone's dog down! I am so shocked by this story...
I haven't read all of this but-
My personal feeling is that euthanasia is probably the best thing for the dog if the current owners aren't willing to put time into retraining. It's VERY hard to find a stable home for a potentially aggressive dog, with people willing to take the time to retrain them. I know you say the dog was never aggressive before, but odds are the dog was dominant in some form in the household, most dogs who know the rules, who feel their owners are good leaders would never go after something of their alphas. Even if the dog feels insecure about the baby, if the dog respected its people, it would respect the fact that the baby is THEIRS. My dogs do not touch my things, alive or not.
Anyway depending on the dog, dogs can be retrained to a degree. The dog may never be kid safe [or whatever it's aggressive towards] but it can be curbed and controlled with proper obedience training. However, most people don't want/have time to do that. Taking on a dog who has bitten humans before is a lifelong committment [the dogs life] because once they've done it, odds are at some point they will try it again, but hopefully you either don't put them in a bad situation, or you work around it.
I don't know that I would euthanize a dog if it bit one person, but it depends on the circumstance. Did the dog bite out of serious aggression, was it startled, was it teased? If the dog is 8 years old and has been people aggressive all of its life, odds are no training will help the dog. But let's say it's a 2 year old dog who has owners that are simply stupid? That can be curbed. I actually dogsat for a friend of mine, the dog within 3 days felt comfortable enough to attack one of my dogs, two times over stuff that didn't belong to him. He attacked her when she came out of her kennel [he decided it was his] and when they were in a dog run together attacked her for coming out first. Although I struck the fear of god in him multiple times over the weekend, he was still having problems figuring out his place. At my house he was having to sit and lay down when I told him to, let me trim his nails, walk well on a leash. I even got him to roll over a few times, which she couldn't because he thought he was above her. When he went home he went right back to being his old crappy self. This is also a dog who tried to kill their cat [they got rid of it] he didn't DARE touch my cat because he knew he would die. He bites her small cousins, and has tried to bite several men in the family. This dog is this way because they let him. They don't make him do anything at his house, and they let him jump on people and be bossy.
Most dogs with human aggression issues do it out of being insecure [unsure of their place] or because they haven't been socialized properly, which again makes them insecure. Some dogs are better off bein euthanized because in a way when you rehome you're just making the dog someone else's problem, and there are many nice dogs out there needing homes who don't need retraining, but euthanasia shouldn't be your first option, retraining should be. (LOL sorry for the novel guys!)
My personal feeling is that euthanasia is probably the best thing for the dog if the current owners aren't willing to put time into retraining. It's VERY hard to find a stable home for a potentially aggressive dog, with people willing to take the time to retrain them. I know you say the dog was never aggressive before, but odds are the dog was dominant in some form in the household, most dogs who know the rules, who feel their owners are good leaders would never go after something of their alphas. Even if the dog feels insecure about the baby, if the dog respected its people, it would respect the fact that the baby is THEIRS. My dogs do not touch my things, alive or not.
Anyway depending on the dog, dogs can be retrained to a degree. The dog may never be kid safe [or whatever it's aggressive towards] but it can be curbed and controlled with proper obedience training. However, most people don't want/have time to do that. Taking on a dog who has bitten humans before is a lifelong committment [the dogs life] because once they've done it, odds are at some point they will try it again, but hopefully you either don't put them in a bad situation, or you work around it.
I don't know that I would euthanize a dog if it bit one person, but it depends on the circumstance. Did the dog bite out of serious aggression, was it startled, was it teased? If the dog is 8 years old and has been people aggressive all of its life, odds are no training will help the dog. But let's say it's a 2 year old dog who has owners that are simply stupid? That can be curbed. I actually dogsat for a friend of mine, the dog within 3 days felt comfortable enough to attack one of my dogs, two times over stuff that didn't belong to him. He attacked her when she came out of her kennel [he decided it was his] and when they were in a dog run together attacked her for coming out first. Although I struck the fear of god in him multiple times over the weekend, he was still having problems figuring out his place. At my house he was having to sit and lay down when I told him to, let me trim his nails, walk well on a leash. I even got him to roll over a few times, which she couldn't because he thought he was above her. When he went home he went right back to being his old crappy self. This is also a dog who tried to kill their cat [they got rid of it] he didn't DARE touch my cat because he knew he would die. He bites her small cousins, and has tried to bite several men in the family. This dog is this way because they let him. They don't make him do anything at his house, and they let him jump on people and be bossy.
Most dogs with human aggression issues do it out of being insecure [unsure of their place] or because they haven't been socialized properly, which again makes them insecure. Some dogs are better off bein euthanized because in a way when you rehome you're just making the dog someone else's problem, and there are many nice dogs out there needing homes who don't need retraining, but euthanasia shouldn't be your first option, retraining should be. (LOL sorry for the novel guys!)
in that situation i think the dog should have been rehomed. it doesnt sound like an agressive dog, it was reacting to a specific situation. i completely understand them not wanting to have the dog remain in the house with their new baby. yes our animals are part of our families and very precious but they are NOT and should not be as precious to us as our human children.
i have to take my little dog to be put to sleep on august 4th
when we first adopted him (two months ago) he was very friendly with strangers. after he started realizing he was a member of our "pack", he became very protective of us and didnt like anyone he didnt know. he was fine with anyone i invited into our home, or if we went into anyone else's home, but he would snarl and sometimes try to attack people we came across when out walking. we tried to make sure and keep him away from people but he wound up nipping two adult neighbors when out walking. they were not harmed so i simply apologized but the other day he attacked a small child without provocation and left three bites on her but that broke the skin so we have no other choice but to put him to sleep. if rehomed he would have the same behavior of protecting his new pack.
he is a very loving dog and i realize in his mind the child was a threat, but in reality she was not, and it is my duty as a citizen and responsible pet owner to do the right thing.
i have to take my little dog to be put to sleep on august 4th
when we first adopted him (two months ago) he was very friendly with strangers. after he started realizing he was a member of our "pack", he became very protective of us and didnt like anyone he didnt know. he was fine with anyone i invited into our home, or if we went into anyone else's home, but he would snarl and sometimes try to attack people we came across when out walking. we tried to make sure and keep him away from people but he wound up nipping two adult neighbors when out walking. they were not harmed so i simply apologized but the other day he attacked a small child without provocation and left three bites on her but that broke the skin so we have no other choice but to put him to sleep. if rehomed he would have the same behavior of protecting his new pack.
he is a very loving dog and i realize in his mind the child was a threat, but in reality she was not, and it is my duty as a citizen and responsible pet owner to do the right thing.
wouldn't the right thing be keeping him in the house and only letting him out while he's on the leash, and while he's on the leash, making sure he doesn't get within biting distance of children, so he couldn't get to the child and bit him/her? that way you wouldn't have to have him put to sleep.
btw, my cat is as precious to me as a child would be, and i see nothing wrong with that.
btw, my cat is as precious to me as a child would be, and i see nothing wrong with that.
yes arcadian girl you are correct and we tried that, it didnt work out. i realize that your cat is precious to you but if you had a baby and your cat was agressive toward your baby, im sure you wouldnt allow the cat to live with you any longer. you would protect your baby over any animal. also, if your child was attacked by someone elses animal you would want that animal put down.
it may be a hard thing to understand for those who do not yet have children.
it may be a hard thing to understand for those who do not yet have children.
I know that everyone has the right to be able to do what they want within reason.
However, have you considered hiring a trainer/behavourist to come in and at least do an assessment? There are many dogs who have their behaviours turned completely around with simple boundaries/guidelines/training regimes.
What previous training has the dog had or have you done with the dog?
If all else failed and there was no other option, yes, I may consider PTS.
But this is perhaps one option you haven't considered?
I have a child but I wouldn't necessarily decree a dog that bit her be put down. It would all depend on the actions of both child/person and dog at the time, where the incident took place, how ongoing it was, how serious the injury, etc..
I think would have simply muzzled for walks.
I do not blame you, however, it is a very tough choice to make.
I do not blame you, however, it is a very tough choice to make.
i completely agree with you in that it all depends on the the individual situation. i have no other choice but to put the dog to sleep, its not even my choice to make, there are laws and ordinances that must be followed. the child was not bitten on a walk, and its kind of a long story to post here but i assure you we took every action to prevent our jakey from coming into contact with people he didnt know. if anyone feels they must know all the details of the incident please pm me and i would be happy to discuss with you.
yayi...
I could'nt agree with you more!! As a private trainer who specializes in agression/behavioral problems, I see and hear these horror stories all the time!! And YES, it's the owners fault in 99% of all cases. Euthanasia, unfortunatley, is an easier way out for some people. It requires a lot less time, effort and expense than having the dog rehabilitated. Which IS possible and successful as long as the owners are willing to apply a little time and effort. I don't know this particular dog or the exact circumstances under which these instances took place, but I think it's safe to say that this dog would have lived out a long and happy life had he/she been placed in a home with an experienced dog owner.
I could'nt agree with you more!! As a private trainer who specializes in agression/behavioral problems, I see and hear these horror stories all the time!! And YES, it's the owners fault in 99% of all cases. Euthanasia, unfortunatley, is an easier way out for some people. It requires a lot less time, effort and expense than having the dog rehabilitated. Which IS possible and successful as long as the owners are willing to apply a little time and effort. I don't know this particular dog or the exact circumstances under which these instances took place, but I think it's safe to say that this dog would have lived out a long and happy life had he/she been placed in a home with an experienced dog owner.
Me too. I feel this very strongly.
The commitment may be different (though there are times when we must 'rehome' children for their own good) but it is also the same to me. I have committed to guardianship of a life - for life.
i agree with it as well, to an extent.... my point was this.....would you keep any pet at the cost of your childs safety / life?
I'm so sorry that you are losing your dog.
I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to make you feel bad, I was just answering that one specific point.
In my case, I would think of a problem pet the same way as a problem child - if one child is so difficult or damaged that it is a threat to the others, you try to treat them and seperate or rehome them if necessary. I would do the same with a pet if at all possible.
(I do understand that it is not possible in your situation - just as a mother's love can't buy her child from death row).
To me, part of the key to this story is that you have only had the dog for 2 months. I'm sorry the decision has been taken out of your hands. What a difficult situation to be in!Originally Posted by jaycee
in that situation i think the dog should have been rehomed. it doesnt sound like an agressive dog, it was reacting to a specific situation. i completely understand them not wanting to have the dog remain in the house with their new baby. yes our animals are part of our families and very precious but they are NOT and should not be as precious to us as our human children.
i have to take my little dog to be put to sleep on august 4th
when we first adopted him (two months ago) he was very friendly with strangers. after he started realizing he was a member of our "pack", he became very protective of us and didnt like anyone he didnt know. he was fine with anyone i invited into our home, or if we went into anyone else's home, but he would snarl and sometimes try to attack people we came across when out walking. we tried to make sure and keep him away from people but he wound up nipping two adult neighbors when out walking. they were not harmed so i simply apologized but the other day he attacked a small child without provocation and left three bites on her but that broke the skin so we have no other choice but to put him to sleep. if rehomed he would have the same behavior of protecting his new pack.
he is a very loving dog and i realize in his mind the child was a threat, but in reality she was not, and it is my duty as a citizen and responsible pet owner to do the right thing.
My beloved dog Mickey was one of those dogs who never liked anyone and was VERY protective of me. he used to bite people because he saw them as a threat to me. We put him up for adoption and gave him to a Boston Terrier rescue so he could go live with people who really know and understand the breed.
Now Mickey lives with his foster parents who adopted him and he is actually socializing with other dogs when before he would just about pop your arm out of socket to attack other dogs.
I think dogs like that just need a little work. Usually they dont have anything against the person they bite, its just that they see them as a threat and in Mickey's case he would do what he could to protect me from that threat. its all about dog psycology. it is SO much different than human psycology. (that's what i get for watching too much of the Dog Whisperer
)
Now Mickey lives with his foster parents who adopted him and he is actually socializing with other dogs when before he would just about pop your arm out of socket to attack other dogs.
I think dogs like that just need a little work. Usually they dont have anything against the person they bite, its just that they see them as a threat and in Mickey's case he would do what he could to protect me from that threat. its all about dog psycology. it is SO much different than human psycology. (that's what i get for watching too much of the Dog Whisperer
