another declaw question- please help!

kittyqueen

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I apologize, but people almost demonize declawing. They see pictures and think, OH MY GOD!! If you see any pictures after a surgery, that will be the case. Maybe I look at a picture and analyze it fully before generally casting judgement on the whole process.
I'm sure this is directed towards me. I just find the whole procedure to be inhumane and downright violent. De-clawing is done simply for the convenience of the owner - NOT for the "well-being" of the cat. If you're that worried about you're cat ripping apart your furniture or what have you, there are other, dare I say more kinder ways of going about it IE. softpaws.

OR a cat may not just be the animal for you.
 

enuja

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I think it's really important that you communicate with your spouse about the fact that you are personally uncomfortable with the declawing. I understand not wanting to fight with him, but keeping the extent of your distress secret will not help your relationship.

You could frame it as a money saving approach; don't spend the money on the declaw, don't spend the money on expensive furniture that could be ruined!

You don't have to buy expensive cat scratching posts - you can make a very good one very easily, and you can buy those $5 flat cardboard ones as well.

I think focusing on the cruelty of the surgery is a mistake. If you are comfortable with surgeries, those pictures are not disturbing at all. It is a surgery, which involves anesthetic (there always a risk of death with anesthetic), done just for convience of the owner. That's the basic problem. It's a completely optional surgery. It doesn't matter how "bad" or "minor" a surgery it is; it is still elective surgery.

No, not all declawed cats have terrible outcomes. My mother adopted a neighbor's indoor/outdoor declawed cat when the neighbor moved out and left the cat. This cat climbed fences, uses the litter box with ease, and is generally a very happy cat (well, after he adjusted to being abandoned). Not all cats will be so unaffected by declawing.

It is a statistical fallacy to say that one (or thirty!) cat(s) lived a long, pleasant life being declawed, and therefore the surgery has no risks. The surgery increases the risk of litter box problems and reduces the cat's ability to defend himself. No, the surgery isn't an instant ticket to death or life-long suffering, but that's doesn't mean that it is a good thing.
 

kuuyku

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Inhumane would be beating a cat, giving it to a kill shelter, not giving it attention, etc...

In a study of over 850 cats, declawed cats were no more likely to bite, than clawed cats. In a study of 276 cat owners, declawing successfully met or surpassed the owner’s expectations in all cases. There was 96% owner satisfaction at the time of the study (up from 81% prior to surgery) and over 70% of cat owners indicated that there was an improvement in the cat-owner relationship. In a study of veterinarians in Ontario, it was estimated that over 50% of owners of declawed cats would not have owned or kept their cats, had they not been declawed.

If a situation arrises where declawing will increase the owners appreciation of the animal, then the cat would benefit as well. Specifically this could correlate to her husband. Of course, then, many people argue that they are not "cat lovers" which would be contrary to declawed owners relationship with the cat. I do sympathize with your view, however, sometimes it is okay and acceptable to allow declawing as a viable option.

I am informing her, and knowledge is power; therefore, it could be deducted that I am helping. It is not the end of the world for her cat if she does wind up having it declawed.
 

jen

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Originally Posted by Kuuyku

Inhumane would be beating a cat, giving it to a kill shelter, not giving it attention, etc...

In a study of over 850 cats, declawed cats were no more likely to bite, than clawed cats. In a study of 276 cat owners, declawing successfully met or surpassed the owner’s expectations in all cases. There was 96% owner satisfaction at the time of the study (up from 81% prior to surgery) and over 70% of cat owners indicated that there was an improvement in the cat-owner relationship. In a study of veterinarians in Ontario, it was estimated that over 50% of owners of declawed cats would not have owned or kept their cats, had they not been declawed.

If a situation arrises where declawing will increase the owners appreciation of the animal, then the cat would benefit as well. Specifically this could correlate to her husband. Of course, then, many people argue that they are not "cat lovers" which would be contrary to declawed owners relationship with the cat. I do sympathize with your view, however, sometimes it is okay and acceptable to allow declawing as a viable option.

I am informing her, and knowledge is power; therefore, it could be deducted that I am helping. It is not the end of the world for her cat if she does wind up having it declawed.
I see your post Kuuyku and I understand what you are saying. There is a ton of pain and blood with every surgery. So if you are going to do it then do it right.

I am already completely against declawing first off as there really is no point to doing it in the first place. And I know you (Kuuyku) aren't telling everyone here to go out and do it, but I still don't see why people just do it without even thinking about it. My little sister had a very bad problem with digging her fingernails into me and ripping my arms up when she got mad when she was a little kid. But no one would defingernail a kid... Sure it would have been convenient for me, no more bloody arms.... same with a cat....to put the cat under anesthesia, amputate all the nails and glue them back together just your cat doesn't ruin your couch? At least people should try Soft Claws and other things to get the cats off the chairs. Maybe the process, if done right, isn't too inhumane, but the whole idea of it as an option in the first place is terribly cruel. Doesn't the fact that it is illegal in almost every other country mean something to anyone? Cant the stupid USA get with the program and make it illegal too?

Speaking of Soft Claws, I have to go get some because we just got brand new screens put in and I don't want my cats to scratch them.
 

kuuyku

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If you can psychologically help the situation or train them, then go for it. I agree the USA has issues; but, I bet they (we) will ban declawing, right after they implement the metric system in lieu of the archaic english system.

I agree, people should make valid attempts to train the cat. Most vets do not offer it firstly, unless the said person presents evidence that they have tried to curb the scratching habit. Those that do, only ask because they would rather see the cat go under the knife once (neutering/spaying), not twice.

If her husband is so fixed on having the cat declawed, it probably is going to happen. No amount of scarring this woman with pictures of bad procedures is going to help the situation.
 

goldenkitty45

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There are health benefits to spay/neuter a cat, but NO health benefits for declawing.

The only thing I tell people is to try EVERY thing to train a cat first. If all fails and you have to resort to declawing, then you'd better plan on keeping the cat the rest of the cat's life no matter what problems occur.

A lot of ads in the papers for rehoming a cat say "declawed"....hmmmm wonder why they need to get rid of the cat now - cat was not causing problems BEFORE the declawing. Many cats in the shelters are declawed...hmmmm wonder why they are now in the shelters?

My first cat was declawed, by order of my parents for me to keep him. After surgery I cried to watch Mitten try to walk and keep meowing in pain. While he was one of the exceptions in declawed cats and didn't have litter problems or biting problems; what I witnessed told me to NEVER do that to a cat again.

In cat shows (some associations allowed declawed cats to be shown) - I've seen many HHP's act up and try to bite, etc. The majority of these cats ARE declawed ones.
 

dryde

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My two cents:

I just got my new kitten. When we were shopping around one of the BIGGEST issues between my boyfriend and I was the one about declawing. His cats were all declawed. I loathed the idea of it. It all comes down to personal choice, however, its not something I felt comfortable with.

The breeder we originally decided to go with strongly reccomended we declaw our kitten. Then again, this guy also refused to let the kitten go before being spayed. He was to have her spayed at 6 weeks. Hi, sorry, no thanks. Needless to say, we passed.

I ended up getting a kitty with a full set of nice, sharp nails *i have scars to prove it*, but honestly, trimming the nails regularly is one of the best things you can do. It took alot of time and patience to finally train him not to scratch furniture---but a few things I found that were VERY helpful in the process:

-Find out what he or she is scratching. In our case, it was our couch. When i went out shopping for posts, I tried to find something as similar as I could in texture to the fabric of our couch. I also went to wal-mart and got a swatch of fabric that felt couchey and attached it to my dresser.

-Every time you see him or her scratching, pick em up and set them next to the scratching post, no matter what it is you're doing. *put the pot of boiling water down first, thats ok :p*

-Provide EVERY different kind of post you can. My kitty liked the corrugated cardboard ones, but just put something appropriate to scratch EVERYWHERE, especially near the areas he or she is already scratching.

-TRIM THE NAILS--haha. Seriously, I checked my kitty's DAILY to make sure they weren't sharp. Dull nails do alot less than sharp ones. (Go go Captain Obvious! haha)

-
I hope this helps. Its taken me about two full months to have him completely post-trainied, but in my opinion, it wasn't that hard as long as you're observant and can catch your kitty when its scratching inappropriately. The biggest argument for me against declawing was my personal discomfort with it. Honestly, sit down and tell your husband that it makes YOU uncomfortable, and say why.

And honestly, my personal opinion-, when a human child goes and scratches siblings, classmates, parents, etc in their fits of rage, nobody thinks about chopping their fingers off at the last knuckle. It all comes down to communicating with your cat/child why its wrong to scratch. Our kitties are our babies, same as a human child. Who are we to think they're immune to pain any different than one of us is? I know personally when I merely stub my toe I'm hopping around for an hour and limping *im sensitive*...sure as hell wouldn't want to try walking minus part of some of my appendages.
 

phantomsr

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I'm against declawing myself, but I do have friends that have had their cats declawed and their cats are fine after 5+ years. Laser removal would be the only option I could possibly consider.

My one problem is the arguement or declawing vs spay/neuter and the human equivalent. Everyone is okay with comparing a declawing to removing the ends of your fingers, but no one ever compares spaying/neuturing to sterilizing their children. I'm sure you can make an arguement that spaying or neuturing your children would have health benifits. You could use all the arguements that people use to support spaying/neuturing your cats for the most part.

Now my cats are spayed and neutered and have all their claws so I'm not trying to go against the majority. I'm just saying that if you chose to make a comparison for one situation, it's only fair to apply that same comparison to the others.
 

katiemae1277

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Originally Posted by PhantomSr

My one problem is the arguement or declawing vs spay/neuter and the human equivalent. Everyone is okay with comparing a declawing to removing the ends of your fingers, but no one ever compares spaying/neuturing to sterilizing their children. I'm sure you can make an arguement that spaying or neuturing your children would have health benifits. You could use all the arguements that people use to support spaying/neuturing your cats for the most part.
But children do not randomly reproduce and there are not millions of children put down in shelters every year. With cats, mating and reproduction are instinct driven, not a choice. Also, "children" have other ways of preventing pregnancy, but as far as I'm aware there is no birth control pill designed for cats
 

scratchies

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I think the US is the only place that has this practice, its banned in the UK and EUOPE and here in AUSTRALIA ,it is one of the most barbaric things to do to a cat and should not be done, tell hubby i will remove his finger nails and toe nails for free just so he can experiance first hand what it is like

On a brighter note i have 7 cats and a house full of Antique furniture and i have no problems at all, just give them a throw rug to claw on and they will be happy, sorry to be so blunt but it is not something that is needed
 

meow meow

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Originally Posted by Kuuyku

I am informing her, and knowledge is power; therefore, it could be deducted that I am helping. It is not the end of the world for her cat if she does wind up having it declawed.
I appreciate what you are saying. I am in the exact same boat as the OP. Our kitten is 18 weeks old and my husband keeps asking when I am going to declaw him. It was sort of the arrangement when we got him but I have changed my mind. Of the 7 or so cats we know, all are declawed and I truthfully dont' know of any problems. My husbands previous cat was declawed and lived to 15 (he did become a sprayer at the end but that was because I moved in, not because of a declaw procedure 14 years earlier).

Anyhow, my response to him so far has been "He hasn't done anything to deserve it." He has never scratched us or the kids (he loves my 4 and 6 year old daughters) and has not ruined anything in our house. As far as my husband is concerned, it is just a matter of time. I did get him a scratching board and he does use it -- but he has still scratched at the carpet and arm of the couch while stretching after a nap. I did cut his nails and that helped (he still scratches of course, but I have seen no damage).

Yesterday, we were on the deck and the kitten was at the door wall and was trying to climb the screen with his claws. My husband gave me that "I told you so look."

So, in our case, it remains to be seen if our kitty gets to keep his claws. My concern with my kitty is that he is so sweet now and friendly, I don't want to do anything that may change him. But...I know the damage a cat's claws can cause (our cat growing up ruined several couches, drapes and stereo speakers).

I know this site is anti-declaw but I think it is important to have honest factual conversations. It upsets me when people throw around the "declawed cats pee outside the litterbox" line and then in the next breath, recommend someone adopt an already declawed cat. Gee -- why would I want to adopt a cat that is so likely to avoid the litterbox?? Maybe all declawed cats in shelters should be put down because of likely behavior problems?? I really, really wish there were some sound, factual studies so that we know the truth about this (not just rumors and antidotal evidence).
 

zissou'smom

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Hi MeowMeow. I understand your concerns, but there are a lot of things you can try that will prevent scratching.

Also, if you adopt a declawed cat from the shelter, the kind people who work there can tell you if it has litterbox problems, and in fact many of them are put down because a cat with litterbox problems is considered unadoptable. When you declaw a cat yourself, you don't know if it will cause it or not.

Here is a site with many facts and fewer emotional outbursts than most: http://www.pawproject.com/html/faqs.asp

Think about what you said "he hasn't done anything to deserve it" So are you thinking of it as a punishment for scratching? There are ways to protect your screens, furniture, and yourself while letting the cat have a place to scratch appropriately and keeping his paws.
 

meow meow

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Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

Think about what you said "he hasn't done anything to deserve it" So are you thinking of it as a punishment for scratching? There are ways to protect your screens, furniture, and yourself while letting the cat have a place to scratch appropriately and keeping his paws.
Of course I didn't mean that declaw should be a punishment for scratching. I was trying to make a point to my husband that the cat hasn't damaged anything or anyone so why should I put the cat through the surgery? If it were only up to me, I would not declaw my cat. However, when you are married and share a home, things are rarely one person's decision. My drop dead date for this is when kitty is six months old. I am hoping to prove to my husband that the surgery is unnecessary and that his claws are managable. Truthfully, I did mislead my husband somewhat because I did agree to declaw before we got the cat. Now, it is my job to show him that we don't HAVE to do it.

Good discussion everyone. I like to hear everyone's points of view on this.
 

zissou'smom

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You never have to declaw. It is always a choice made for the owner's needs/wants.

Try Softpaws. They really do work, the first time you put them on they will come off pretty quickly but as they get used to them they stay on until the claw sheds. They prevent the cat from scratching anything, because they are plastic/rubber sheaths that go on over the claw. They can extend and retract their claws, make scratching motions, itch themselves, etc, and they get to keep their toes and avoid painful unnecessary surgery. Claws with Softpaws do not damage screens, furniture, people, etc. They also save you money.

I hope you read the site I posted, it was exactly what you were asking for. Statistics, rather than anecdotes and opinions. Such as: 1/3 of cats have a behavioral problem after a declaw, a fifth have long-term complications (this is NOT the same as immediately after the surgery, such as bleeding or pain. These are complications that arise after years, or last for life). Cats are more likely to be surrendered to the shelter for aggression and peeing/pooping outside the box (problems that arise more often in declawed cats) than for inappropriate scratching (3%).

If you find fault with these studies, as they are smaller than most people like, it is because there haven't been many done. They all prove the same thing: you are more likely to be unhappy with a cat who has been declawed than the same cat who still has his toes and claws. This does not mean that declawed cats all have problems, or that all those cats you had as a kid that your parents declawed had problems. Just like a cat with all his toes can still be a biter or have behavioral problems. It's just that declawing can cause more problems than it prevents, and the problems that having claws can cause can be easily prevented. So can the ones caused by a declaw-- don't do it.

Is this unfair to cats in the shelter who have been declawed? No, it is not. The cats up for adoption at the shelter that are declawed have usually made it through without problems, as aggressive cats and cats with litterbox problems are usually not up for adoption. They either become permanent residents at no-kill shelters, or are put to sleep at kill shelters.
 

tnr1

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Originally Posted by meow meow

Of course I didn't mean that declaw should be a punishment for scratching. I was trying to make a point to my husband that the cat hasn't damaged anything or anyone so why should I put the cat through the surgery? If it were only up to me, I would not declaw my cat. However, when you are married and share a home, things are rarely one person's decision. My drop dead date for this is when kitty is six months old. I am hoping to prove to my husband that the surgery is unnecessary and that his claws are managable. Truthfully, I did mislead my husband somewhat because I did agree to declaw before we got the cat. Now, it is my job to show him that we don't HAVE to do it.

Good discussion everyone. I like to hear everyone's points of view on this.
Interesting....so why didn't you simply adopt a cat that has already been declawed?? My biggest argument against the procedure is that there are plenty of already declawed cats that need homes...these cats are given up for allergies, moving, no time etc. etc. We've placed kittens as young as 4 months of age who had the declaw procedure done (that had been dropped off at a shelter). Declawing a cat does not take care of all the potential issues...and it is an extreme solution to a problem that can often be managed by nail trimmings, providing enticing scratching materials and taking action to make furniture unappealing as an option (btw...I have that fake leather furniture and my cats NEVER try to scratch it).

I agree that knowledge is power...which is why I educate owners about the availability of already declawed cats.

Katie
 

solaritybengals

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Sorry I didn't read this whole thread so this might have already been said. I had a problem with one glue tube in one of the packages and just happened to be at the vet so I asked them if they had more. They do applications often and have this happen a lot. They said its fine to just use the type of glue you use to apply fake nails. Since the soft paws were for training and I left them off for a while they seemed to be behaving so since then we have not needed them. So I never used the stuff but just passing on what I heard.
 

jen

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Super Glue, Fake Nail Glue, Soft Paws Glue...it's all the same thing...
 

jen

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Originally Posted by Dryde

Then again, this guy also refused to let the kitten go before being spayed. He was to have her spayed at 6 weeks. Hi, sorry, no thanks. Needless to say, we passed.
That is great though! I wish all people would insist on spaying the cats before letting them go. 6 weeks is fine to spay as long as the cat weighs 2 lbs. But at 6 weeks, the kitten should still be with it's mother. But that makes me happy to see people refusing to give up their kittens until they are spayed. Too bad he wanted her declawed too...
 

vik61

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Originally Posted by coaster

Most places this debate wouldn't even be taking place.


from: http://www.theanimalspirit.com/declaw.html
I found this article to be good, please read it if you have read the pro-declaw article. There are some things in this article that haven't been said in this thread.

After all this you must be reeling with information, but I'm glad you are leaning toward not declawing your cat. (By the way, screens are pretty cheap and easy to install, should your kitty mess on up early on in the training process.) I want to add a post to this, since you are still listening.

I have such a sense of pride over my seven year-old cat who is about the most trainable animal I've ever owned. I didn't think a cat could be trained but, just like with any other animal you need to approach it on their terms since you are training the cat to behave on your terms. Training is a bit different with cats, but very doable.

Cats are intelligent. When Pixel is venturing off my yard, I only need call her and she stops, turns around and comes back. Often I do have to call her, but that work, and keeping a close eye on her when she is outdoors is something I do rather than keep her in. It must be done. My point is that a dog may be trained to never leave a yard; with a cat it just requires a bit more work.

It's the work involved that causes people to just go ahead and declaw their cats, I feel. They don't want to take the time to work with animals to make the living experience a positive one. I don't know, for me the process of training the animal is more rewarding than anything since essentially it is akin to communicating with the animal: and the animal responds by adjusting. Imagine it that way if you will. You've essentially reached an agreement with an animal of another species. The argument that Now that my cat is declawed I'm not yelling at it all the time, is a poor one since it doesn't need to be a stressful process. Cats learn faster than you might think.
 
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