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another declaw question- please help! - Page 2

post #31 of 49
I think the US is the only place that has this practice, its banned in the UK and EUOPE and here in AUSTRALIA ,it is one of the most barbaric things to do to a cat and should not be done, tell hubby i will remove his finger nails and toe nails for free just so he can experiance first hand what it is like
On a brighter note i have 7 cats and a house full of Antique furniture and i have no problems at all, just give them a throw rug to claw on and they will be happy, sorry to be so blunt but it is not something that is needed
post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuuyku
I am informing her, and knowledge is power; therefore, it could be deducted that I am helping. It is not the end of the world for her cat if she does wind up having it declawed.
I appreciate what you are saying. I am in the exact same boat as the OP. Our kitten is 18 weeks old and my husband keeps asking when I am going to declaw him. It was sort of the arrangement when we got him but I have changed my mind. Of the 7 or so cats we know, all are declawed and I truthfully dont' know of any problems. My husbands previous cat was declawed and lived to 15 (he did become a sprayer at the end but that was because I moved in, not because of a declaw procedure 14 years earlier).

Anyhow, my response to him so far has been "He hasn't done anything to deserve it." He has never scratched us or the kids (he loves my 4 and 6 year old daughters) and has not ruined anything in our house. As far as my husband is concerned, it is just a matter of time. I did get him a scratching board and he does use it -- but he has still scratched at the carpet and arm of the couch while stretching after a nap. I did cut his nails and that helped (he still scratches of course, but I have seen no damage).

Yesterday, we were on the deck and the kitten was at the door wall and was trying to climb the screen with his claws. My husband gave me that "I told you so look."

So, in our case, it remains to be seen if our kitty gets to keep his claws. My concern with my kitty is that he is so sweet now and friendly, I don't want to do anything that may change him. But...I know the damage a cat's claws can cause (our cat growing up ruined several couches, drapes and stereo speakers).

I know this site is anti-declaw but I think it is important to have honest factual conversations. It upsets me when people throw around the "declawed cats pee outside the litterbox" line and then in the next breath, recommend someone adopt an already declawed cat. Gee -- why would I want to adopt a cat that is so likely to avoid the litterbox?? Maybe all declawed cats in shelters should be put down because of likely behavior problems?? I really, really wish there were some sound, factual studies so that we know the truth about this (not just rumors and antidotal evidence).
post #33 of 49
Hi MeowMeow. I understand your concerns, but there are a lot of things you can try that will prevent scratching.

Also, if you adopt a declawed cat from the shelter, the kind people who work there can tell you if it has litterbox problems, and in fact many of them are put down because a cat with litterbox problems is considered unadoptable. When you declaw a cat yourself, you don't know if it will cause it or not.

Here is a site with many facts and fewer emotional outbursts than most: http://www.pawproject.com/html/faqs.asp

Think about what you said "he hasn't done anything to deserve it" So are you thinking of it as a punishment for scratching? There are ways to protect your screens, furniture, and yourself while letting the cat have a place to scratch appropriately and keeping his paws.
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom
Think about what you said "he hasn't done anything to deserve it" So are you thinking of it as a punishment for scratching? There are ways to protect your screens, furniture, and yourself while letting the cat have a place to scratch appropriately and keeping his paws.

Of course I didn't mean that declaw should be a punishment for scratching. I was trying to make a point to my husband that the cat hasn't damaged anything or anyone so why should I put the cat through the surgery? If it were only up to me, I would not declaw my cat. However, when you are married and share a home, things are rarely one person's decision. My drop dead date for this is when kitty is six months old. I am hoping to prove to my husband that the surgery is unnecessary and that his claws are managable. Truthfully, I did mislead my husband somewhat because I did agree to declaw before we got the cat. Now, it is my job to show him that we don't HAVE to do it.

Good discussion everyone. I like to hear everyone's points of view on this.
post #35 of 49
You never have to declaw. It is always a choice made for the owner's needs/wants.

Try Softpaws. They really do work, the first time you put them on they will come off pretty quickly but as they get used to them they stay on until the claw sheds. They prevent the cat from scratching anything, because they are plastic/rubber sheaths that go on over the claw. They can extend and retract their claws, make scratching motions, itch themselves, etc, and they get to keep their toes and avoid painful unnecessary surgery. Claws with Softpaws do not damage screens, furniture, people, etc. They also save you money.

I hope you read the site I posted, it was exactly what you were asking for. Statistics, rather than anecdotes and opinions. Such as: 1/3 of cats have a behavioral problem after a declaw, a fifth have long-term complications (this is NOT the same as immediately after the surgery, such as bleeding or pain. These are complications that arise after years, or last for life). Cats are more likely to be surrendered to the shelter for aggression and peeing/pooping outside the box (problems that arise more often in declawed cats) than for inappropriate scratching (3%).

If you find fault with these studies, as they are smaller than most people like, it is because there haven't been many done. They all prove the same thing: you are more likely to be unhappy with a cat who has been declawed than the same cat who still has his toes and claws. This does not mean that declawed cats all have problems, or that all those cats you had as a kid that your parents declawed had problems. Just like a cat with all his toes can still be a biter or have behavioral problems. It's just that declawing can cause more problems than it prevents, and the problems that having claws can cause can be easily prevented. So can the ones caused by a declaw-- don't do it.

Is this unfair to cats in the shelter who have been declawed? No, it is not. The cats up for adoption at the shelter that are declawed have usually made it through without problems, as aggressive cats and cats with litterbox problems are usually not up for adoption. They either become permanent residents at no-kill shelters, or are put to sleep at kill shelters.
post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by meow meow
Of course I didn't mean that declaw should be a punishment for scratching. I was trying to make a point to my husband that the cat hasn't damaged anything or anyone so why should I put the cat through the surgery? If it were only up to me, I would not declaw my cat. However, when you are married and share a home, things are rarely one person's decision. My drop dead date for this is when kitty is six months old. I am hoping to prove to my husband that the surgery is unnecessary and that his claws are managable. Truthfully, I did mislead my husband somewhat because I did agree to declaw before we got the cat. Now, it is my job to show him that we don't HAVE to do it.

Good discussion everyone. I like to hear everyone's points of view on this.
Interesting....so why didn't you simply adopt a cat that has already been declawed?? My biggest argument against the procedure is that there are plenty of already declawed cats that need homes...these cats are given up for allergies, moving, no time etc. etc. We've placed kittens as young as 4 months of age who had the declaw procedure done (that had been dropped off at a shelter). Declawing a cat does not take care of all the potential issues...and it is an extreme solution to a problem that can often be managed by nail trimmings, providing enticing scratching materials and taking action to make furniture unappealing as an option (btw...I have that fake leather furniture and my cats NEVER try to scratch it).

I agree that knowledge is power...which is why I educate owners about the availability of already declawed cats.

Katie
post #37 of 49
Sorry I didn't read this whole thread so this might have already been said. I had a problem with one glue tube in one of the packages and just happened to be at the vet so I asked them if they had more. They do applications often and have this happen a lot. They said its fine to just use the type of glue you use to apply fake nails. Since the soft paws were for training and I left them off for a while they seemed to be behaving so since then we have not needed them. So I never used the stuff but just passing on what I heard.
post #38 of 49
Super Glue, Fake Nail Glue, Soft Paws Glue...it's all the same thing...
post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryde
Then again, this guy also refused to let the kitten go before being spayed. He was to have her spayed at 6 weeks. Hi, sorry, no thanks. Needless to say, we passed.
That is great though! I wish all people would insist on spaying the cats before letting them go. 6 weeks is fine to spay as long as the cat weighs 2 lbs. But at 6 weeks, the kitten should still be with it's mother. But that makes me happy to see people refusing to give up their kittens until they are spayed. Too bad he wanted her declawed too...
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by coaster
Most places this debate wouldn't even be taking place.


from: http://www.theanimalspirit.com/declaw.html
I found this article to be good, please read it if you have read the pro-declaw article. There are some things in this article that haven't been said in this thread.

After all this you must be reeling with information, but I'm glad you are leaning toward not declawing your cat. (By the way, screens are pretty cheap and easy to install, should your kitty mess on up early on in the training process.) I want to add a post to this, since you are still listening.

I have such a sense of pride over my seven year-old cat who is about the most trainable animal I've ever owned. I didn't think a cat could be trained but, just like with any other animal you need to approach it on their terms since you are training the cat to behave on your terms. Training is a bit different with cats, but very doable.

Cats are intelligent. When Pixel is venturing off my yard, I only need call her and she stops, turns around and comes back. Often I do have to call her, but that work, and keeping a close eye on her when she is outdoors is something I do rather than keep her in. It must be done. My point is that a dog may be trained to never leave a yard; with a cat it just requires a bit more work.

It's the work involved that causes people to just go ahead and declaw their cats, I feel. They don't want to take the time to work with animals to make the living experience a positive one. I don't know, for me the process of training the animal is more rewarding than anything since essentially it is akin to communicating with the animal: and the animal responds by adjusting. Imagine it that way if you will. You've essentially reached an agreement with an animal of another species. The argument that Now that my cat is declawed I'm not yelling at it all the time, is a poor one since it doesn't need to be a stressful process. Cats learn faster than you might think.
post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen
That is great though! I wish all people would insist on spaying the cats before letting them go. 6 weeks is fine to spay as long as the cat weighs 2 lbs. But at 6 weeks, the kitten should still be with it's mother. But that makes me happy to see people refusing to give up their kittens until they are spayed. Too bad he wanted her declawed too...
Jen, I agree completely. Pediatric spay and neuter is completely safe and ethical. However, I am saddened to see someone wanting a kitten declawed or any cat for that matter.
IMO, declawing is NEVER acceptable.
post #42 of 49
Thread Starter 
Sorry I have not replyed in such a long time. I really had no idea this thread was still going!

To whoever asked- we do have quite a large scratching post for the kitties and they love it!

Here's an update. We did try superglue with the soft paws. It seems to have worked alot better than the glue that came with the caps. I did talk to my husband about the declawing more and told him that thinking about scedualing them for one was just making me sick to my stomache. He said if I was that upset about it than to just not worry about it, and that we wouldn't have to have it done. There is only one problem I'm found with the soft paws- the day we were moving, we went to breakfast and came back, and it looked like Luna had gotten one of her paws caught on something and the claw looked like it was ripping away from the surrounding skin! She had blood all over her little hand. She didn't act like it was bothering her an we went ahead and moved. We've now been moved for a week and one day with the new furnature. Some of the cats soft paws have fallen off and when they go to scratch something they actually scratch it. Other than a couple of times, they haven't even thought about touching the couches. At the time that they did- we hiss at them and they stop. The only thing they do scratch at is an old desk chair we have that we don't really care about anyway, so we just let them do it. They are perfect little angels! They've adjusted so well and are really happy with us. Thankyou for all of your support and advice. I love this place!
post #43 of 49
I knew your husband would give in once he realized that it was really upsetting you! A lot of people just don't realize that you don't have to declaw a cat.

Sounds like everything is going well! That's actually the best way to train your cats, to discourage them when they've just discovered something, like your couches. I'm sure everyone will live in harmony.

One really good thing about softclaws is you can use them during training and then you don't have to use them forever. If you want to though, they're inexpensive and as the kitties get used to them they stop trying to get them off.

I'm glad you're enjoying your new place!
post #44 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
There are health benefits to spay/neuter a cat, but NO health benefits for declawing.

The only thing I tell people is to try EVERY thing to train a cat first. If all fails and you have to resort to declawing, then you'd better plan on keeping the cat the rest of the cat's life no matter what problems occur.

A lot of ads in the papers for rehoming a cat say "declawed"....hmmmm wonder why they need to get rid of the cat now - cat was not causing problems BEFORE the declawing. Many cats in the shelters are declawed...hmmmm wonder why they are now in the shelters?

My first cat was declawed, by order of my parents for me to keep him. After surgery I cried to watch Mitten try to walk and keep meowing in pain. While he was one of the exceptions in declawed cats and didn't have litter problems or biting problems; what I witnessed told me to NEVER do that to a cat again.

In cat shows (some associations allowed declawed cats to be shown) - I've seen many HHP's act up and try to bite, etc. The majority of these cats ARE declawed ones.
i disagree with the thought that the reason there are declawed cats in shelters is the owners gave them up because of behavioral problems as a result of declawing. there are more cats with claws in shelters than declawed ones. couldnt it just be possible they are all there for the same reasons? owners had to move and couldnt take cat, they just plain didnt want it anymore, got married and cat didnt get along with new cat, any number of reasons. why are you just assuming that every declawed cat in the shelters are there ONLY because they are declawed. same goes for the newpaper ad argument.
gosh, i could say, hmmm... wonder why there are cats with claws in the shelters, maybe if their owners had declawed them they wouldnt be here for tearing up furniture, hmmmmm.
post #45 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dryde
My two cents:

He was to have her spayed at 6 weeks. Hi, sorry, no thanks. Needless to say, we passed.

whats wrong with spaying a cat at 6 weeks? shelters do it all the time.
post #46 of 49
Jaycee, this board is heavily against declawing. You are likely to be met with not-so-kind comments if you keep posting things like that. This is the second thread you've posted in where the original poster didn't want their cat declawed and you post defending declawing. It seems almost like you want an argument.

Your points are directly contradicted by things I've already said in this exact thread. Your opinions are not supported by the facts.
post #47 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom
Jaycee, this board is heavily against declawing. You are likely to be met with not-so-kind comments if you keep posting things like that. This is the second thread you've posted in where the original poster didn't want their cat declawed and you post defending declawing. It seems almost like you want an argument.

Your points are directly contradicted by things I've already said in this exact thread. Your opinions are not supported by the facts.
no Zissou, i do not want an argument as that is the one thing i love best about this site is that the members dont stoop to picking at and fighting with one another. im sorry you dont agree with my opinion but i do believe i have the right to express it as you do yours. i would also like to point out that i did not post in this thread defending declawing (although since you brought it up, yes, i do believe its not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be). i simply disagree with the statement that declawed cats are in shelters merely because they are declawed. please show me facts that support that.
post #48 of 49
Please refer to the numerous posts both I and others have made in this thread with the very facts I'm talking about in them. Here is a quote from one of them:

"1/3 of cats have a behavioral problem after a declaw, a fifth have long-term complications (this is NOT the same as immediately after the surgery, such as bleeding or pain. These are complications that arise after years, or last for life). Cats are more likely to be surrendered to the shelter for aggression and peeing/pooping outside the box (problems that arise more often in declawed cats) than for inappropriate scratching (3%)"

I don't think people should be charged with a felony for declawing their cat or anything. But it is cruel, mainly because it is a painful thing for your cat to endure simply for the convenience of the owner. Any surgery is cruel if the risks outweigh the benefits, and there are NO benefits to the cat and there are lots of risks.

Many veterinarians do declaws only because they believe that their owners will throw them out or have them put to sleep if they are not declawed, and yes, a cat who is declawed but has a home is better off-- maybe-- than a homeless one. But if declawing can cause homelessness, well then, even that "benefit" is overshadowed. I'm glad the cats that you have had declawed haven't experienced any problems yet. But there are numerous anecdotal stories on both sides.

Yes, you certainly do have a right to express your civilized opinion. I just don't think a thread started by someone seeking help on how to convince either their parents or their husband to not declaw is the correct venue for debating it.

I would be happy to carry on the same civilized debate via pm if you would like. It's just that the vast majority of people who are reading this thread will be overjoyed that LunaLou's husband has decided not to demand declawing, and that should be the focus of this thread.
post #49 of 49
i was simply replying to a statement made by another poster, i wasnt advocating or trying to start a debate on whether or not declawing is acceptable. my post had nothing to do with whether or not declawing is acceptable and i did not take a stance either way. yes, if you would like to have a respectful discussion on that, i would be happy to via pm. but in all of my responses to you, i have not tried to start any such discussion so im not sure why you are insinuating thats what im trying to start here.
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