What's so bad about by-products?

I would not fret about it. My male cat we had growing up lived 19 years, was always healthy (never any urinary issues) and ate nothing but 9 Lives and Fancy Feast.

I am feeding my new kitten Nutro but I think the most important thing is you are providing them a loving, safe home. It is great if you can afford "better" food, but cats have lived and thrived on grocery store food for decades.

Originally Posted by meow meow

I would not fret about it. My male cat we had growing up lived 19 years, was always healthy (never any urinary issues) and ate nothing but 9 Lives and Fancy Feast.

I am feeding my new kitten Nutro but I think the most important thing is you are providing them a loving, safe home. It is great if you can afford "better" food, but cats have lived and thrived on grocery store food for decades.

Click to expand...

Always keep in mind that the recipes used for these foods years ago may not be the same ingredients used in these foods today.

Go to the grocery store and look at stuff they have. I was positively amazed that the store brand at my grocery (Giant Eagle, not a national chain) was as good or better than other foods (like 9lives, Fancy Feast, etc) and about 25 cents a can. I know people are wary of store brand stuff, but you might be very surprised by what you find. I was expecting it to have corn as a first ingredient, but it had a named, non-by-product meat as the first ingredient.

If you feed half wet / half dry you might consider getting a high-quality (not necessarily expensive) food for the wet and then something tolerable for the dry. That's going to be my compromise. (Iams dry food, looking for a better wet but still feeding Iams kitten too).

Basically, try any food that has a whole meat as the first ingredient (there's nothing wrong with meal) and named protein sources. IMO, chicken or beef or a named animal by-product is slightly better than "animal" or "meat" by-product, stay clear of animal digest, etc. Not by much, but a little.

There's nothing wrong with not feeding a super-expensive food, but try to do the best you can, that's really all we can do.

I think people don't like by-products because it often contains stuff that we don't eat and because the term by-product is a mystery ingredient. But I'm not against by-products as long as it's not the only ingredient used and as the food is proven to be healthy for cats, meaning cats have lived pretty long healthy lives on the food and any health problems are age related, rather than food related. The only reason cats can survive on foods that do not contain by-products such as internal organs rich in nutrients and ground bone which contains calcium is because of supplements added to the food. Try this without a scientifically balanced cat food, meaning you give your cat straight chicken muscle meat and brown rice and your cat is not going to thrive because it will be missing important nutrients. In the wild cats eat the whole carcass of their prey and the entire carcass of a rodent contains all the nutrients they need and they eat some pretty gross stuff like intestines, organ meats, kidney, liver, heart brains. All this gross stuff in a rodent is nutritionally healthy for cats. That's why I'm not against by-products as long as the product comes from a reputable pet food company. I'm against the cheapest companies that have too many grains and contain artificial ingredients like colors and preservatives. Just my opinion. Most cat forum members are 100% against by-products but I don't feel that way and I never will.

I do agree with most of what you've said Moggiegirl, a food with only muscle meat and brown rice would be terrible!

I do think it's important that foods have organ meats, but it's the ingredient "by-products" that I'm against. Most premium foods DO contain organ meats as well as wholesome muscle meats. I honestly feel that only companies who are hiding something use "by-products" otherwise the ingredient would be named otherwise. If it's good stuff, why use that term?

Petsmart has both Nutro and Purina One in large bags.

Many feed stores have food in 40 pound bags.

The bigger the bags are, the cheaper the food would be.

AAFCO had been updating definitions for byproducts since the Mad Cow scares of 2003 to 2004. I seriously believe byproducts are better than what they are used to be.

Originally Posted by Godiva

I loved Nutro, until that whole spots-in-the-pouches ordeal. Although they still eat dry Nutro, I don't give them wet anymore, except for the kittens when it's on sale.

Click to expand...

Same here...I am not feeding my kitties Nutro pouches because of apparent quality control problems.
My kitties are still eating the Nutro dry.

Originally Posted by vanillasugar

I do agree with most of what you've said Moggiegirl, a food with only muscle meat and brown rice would be terrible!

I do think it's important that foods have organ meats, but it's the ingredient "by-products" that I'm against. Most premium foods DO contain organ meats as well as wholesome muscle meats. I honestly feel that only companies who are hiding something use "by-products" otherwise the ingredient would be named otherwise. If it's good stuff, why use that term?

Click to expand...

Probably because people, especially in American culture are very squeamish and if they see lungs, kidneys, intestines listed on a bag or can of food, they won't buy it. But just because it's gross to humans doesn't meant it's not nutritious for cats. I think a turkey heart is a good organ meat to include but I've never seen the words turkey heart or chicken heard listed on a food. Could that be also known as a by-product? The only part of a chicken that I would not consider as wholesome would be a beak or an eyeball or a foot, or a nail but I don't think the AAFCO definition includes such parts. Blood, well when the cat eats the mouse it's eating the blood too. But I understand people's point of view. They want to feed their pets like they feed themselves. It's just that cats are not people. But I understand. I just choose foods that may contain some by-products because I'm trying to somewhat replicate their wild diet. But I also choose foods with the best cuts of meat and buy only the highest quality freeze dried meat treats to balance it out.

Moggiegirl, please do some more research on the by-products that are in pet food. It is not just organs. The only part of a chicken that is disallowed is feathers, meaning it can be ground-up heads, including the beaks, etc. I linked to the AAFCO standards as a response to your post about byproducts in another thread already. I agree with you that cats should have more than just muscle meat, but that doesn't mean I like by-products.

Originally Posted by moggiegirl

Probably because people, especially in American culture are very squeamish and if they see lungs, kidneys, intestines listed on a bag or can of food, they won't buy it. But just because it's gross to humans doesn't meant it's not nutritious for cats. I think a turkey heart is a good organ meat to include but I've never seen the words turkey heart or chicken heard listed on a food. Could that be also known as a by-product? The only part of a chicken that I would not consider as wholesome would be a beak or an eyeball or a foot, or a nail but I don't think the AAFCO definition includes such parts. Blood, well when the cat eats the mouse it's eating the blood too. But I understand people's point of view. They want to feed their pets like they feed themselves. It's just that cats are not people. But I understand. I just choose foods that may contain some by-products because I'm trying to somewhat replicate their wild diet. But I also choose foods with the best cuts of meat and buy only the highest quality freeze dried meat treats to balance it out.

Click to expand...

I would absolutley not have a problem with by-products if they really were what you're making them sound like. Rendering and denaturing is what scares me about by-products as well as the mystery left by the term itself. If it really were just left over organs, wonderful. BUT it's not. Plain and simple. It's what's DONE to the meat and organs to MAKE by-products that makes them so bad. I'm a raw feeder, I understand that cats and dogs have different nutritional needs than you and I (heck, I'm not about to eat heart! Ick!), but I also need the assurance that what I'm feeding isn't potentially harmful to them because of the process used in making it.

Originally Posted by vanillasugar

I would absolutley not have a problem with by-products if they really were what you're making them sound like. Rendering and denaturing is what scares me about by-products as well as the mystery left by the term itself. If it really were just left over organs, wonderful. BUT it's not. Plain and simple. It's what's DONE to the meat and organs to MAKE by-products that makes them so bad. I'm a raw feeder, I understand that cats and dogs have different nutritional needs than you and I (heck, I'm not about to eat heart! Ick!), but I also need the assurance that what I'm feeding isn't potentially harmful to them because of the process used in making it.

Click to expand...

Well put .. I am not eating those either but the cat and dog do well with raw ones.. The raw diet has done wonders for the two on it the other one I feed kibble and as much wet and raw as shell eat( lol) ...

Originally Posted by shengmei

Petsmart has both Nutro and Purina One in large bags.

Many feed stores have food in 40 pound bags.

The bigger the bags are, the cheaper the food would be.

AAFCO had been updating definitions for byproducts since the Mad Cow scares of 2003 to 2004. I seriously believe byproducts are better than what they are used to be.

Click to expand...

I wish we could do that... but it's difficult to come up with the money all at once. We are in the process of totally redoing our budget!

Well, the Iams company told me that they only use the meat and by-products from sources approved for human consumption and that their standards mirror human standards, they even use USDA inspected meat, they use by-products for their nutritional value and that their diet is based on the carnivore diet. As far as their carbohydrate blend in their dry foods, it's scientifically proven to provide steady levels of energy. If they were lying to me that would be false advertising and they can't do that. They also told me they don't use heads, feet and beaks but simply this. This is quoted from the Iams website.

"Chicken by-product meal is flesh and skin, internal organs including intestines and bone that has been cleaned, dried, cooked and ground.

Why are internal organs and bone included in chicken by-product meal?
Internal organs are rich sources of protein, fats and minerals, such as iron, that are essential to cat health and add to the palatability of the pet food. Including some ground bone provides a good source of minerals, such as calcium. Some pet food manufacturers formulate their products without such ingredients to appeal to cat owners, rather than for optimal health of the cats themselves. However, the nutritional needs of cats are not the same as the nutritional needs of humans.

The Iams Difference
Chicken protein sources contained in our chicken-based cat foods undergo an extra refining process to further improve the protein quality. Refined chicken, chicken meal and chicken by-product meal are excellent and complete sources of protein since they naturally contain each of the amino acids that are essential to cats."

Carbohydrate Ingredients
Our cat foods contain a variety of carbohydrate ingredients.

Barley: Iams uses ground whole grain barley that is cooked at high temperatures and finely ground as part of our patented carbohydrate blend.

Corn: Iams uses only high-quality corn meal — corn kernels that have been finely ground to break up the outside covering of each kernel, then cooked at high temperatures to increase digestibility.

Grain sorghum: Grain sorghum, also called milo, is cracked, finely ground and cooked before it is added to our dry cat foods. It is another carbohydrate source in our patented carbohydrate blend.


Rice flour: Our foods use small kernels of white rice that have been separated from the larger kernels of milled rice, ground and cooked at high temperatures to optimize digestibility.

Wheat: Wheat flour is another high-quality carbohydrate source that is used in our European dry cat foods.

Optimal Digestibility
Highly digestible diets are an important factor in your catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s nutritional well-being. They deliver more essential nutrients more efficiently so there is less waste. Innovative research by Iams scientists has shown that when complex carbohydrates such as grain sorghum and corn are used together in a catâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s diet, their breakdown is enhanced at another level.

These carbohydrate sources are all highly digestible, meaning the body will still metabolize a high percentage of each for energy. Whatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s unique about these grains is that they break down slowly and evenly, thereby providing a stable source of energy.

Maintained Energy Levels
The slow, even breakdown of the carbohydrate sources grain sorghum, corn, and barley results in moderate, stable blood glucose levels after a meal. By minimizing swings in blood glucose, diets containing such a blend supply sustained energy. Iams has a patent pending on a carbohydrate blend of corn and grain sorghum for cats.

Carbohydrate Sources and Iams Cat Food
Many of our cat formulas contain a blend of corn and grain sorghum. This carbohydrate blend optimizes the rate of carbohydrate digestion and assimilation, helping your cat maintain stable blood glucose and energy levels."

Don't mean to sound like an Iams commercial and I do feed a lot of canned food to reduce carbohydrates but it is based on this information above that I do not believe there is anything wrong with what I'm feeding. Shiny, glossy coats don't come from poor nutrition and my cats have those. They also have a lot of energy and clear bright eyes and I haven't seen any difference between now and during times when I temporarily fed brands like Nutro or Natural Balance(which caused Spotty to gain a lot of weight).

And how come the lifespan on a cat that eats pet foods containing by-products is about the same as a cat that eats pet foods that don't contain them?

Nutro and California Natural are foods that contain only the muscle meat. Somehow I find that to be even more unnatural that there are no internal organs and ground bone that are naturally rich in nutrients in these foods.

Sorry, I'm the bad one here. Because I believe differently. I probably have devil horns on my head.

No devil horns ... but I will say lovely marketing ...

Well, I thought I'd just check into this discussion to see what was being said ... I came with my own convictions, but I've gotta say - I think I'm now almost "confused".

I've really enjoyed reading and learning ... this is good stuff because Godiva's issue is an issue we all can relate to.

OK, I've gotta re-read this stuff in the morning when I have more of a brain.

Meanwhile, Godiva, be encouraged - you'll do ok by your kids, I'm sure of it.

Gloria

Yea, um....

I feed Iams too, so your kind of attacking a straw man with me. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with Iams specifically, but with by-products in general. Oh, and I've also read their website, but thanks for copy-and-pasting it.

I don't believe everything a company tells me about their own product blindly and without doing my own research, and I really don't think anyone should. "False advertising" is something totally different-- for one thing, how could anyone prove they are lying unless they are forced to disclose exactly where it comes from, which they never will be.

You can get a feeding study to tell you anything you want. As a policy, I do not trust a study being done by anyone who has any interests that depend on it turning out one way or the other.

I am just amazed that you would say that everyone is attacking you or thinking you have devil horns, or whatever, maybe they do on the other message boards you've posted this line on, but nobody's doing it here. I'm not. I just don't really get how you are so hardline in favor of this one food and don't want to hear it about anything wrong with it. All commercially prepared cat foods have pros and cons, as does a raw diet, etc. Iams is no different. We all want what's best for our cats, right?

Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

I don't believe everything a company tells me about their own product blindly and without doing my own research, and I really don't think anyone should. "False advertising" is something totally different-- for one thing, how could anyone prove they are lying unless they are forced to disclose exactly where it comes from, which they never will be.

Click to expand...

The thing about full disclosure is that any company only has to disclose what they do to an ingredient, but have no responsibility to disclose what was done to it before it entered their manufacturing facility.

So if say "chicken by products" are produced by a chicken processing plant, they can do pretty much anything to it before they ship it off to XX Cat Food Co.

The cat food company just buys chicken by products, so their disclosure in advertising, to consumers, to pet food ratings sites, or even to AAFCO is really a non issue.
Legally they do not have to say anything. And they don't

Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

Yea, um....

I feed Iams too, so your kind of attacking a straw man with me. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with Iams specifically, but with by-products in general. Oh, and I've also read their website, but thanks for copy-and-pasting it.

I don't believe everything a company tells me about their own product blindly and without doing my own research, and I really don't think anyone should. "False advertising" is something totally different-- for one thing, how could anyone prove they are lying unless they are forced to disclose exactly where it comes from, which they never will be.

You can get a feeding study to tell you anything you want. As a policy, I do not trust a study being done by anyone who has any interests that depend on it turning out one way or the other.

I am just amazed that you would say that everyone is attacking you or thinking you have devil horns, or whatever, maybe they do on the other message boards you've posted this line on, but nobody's doing it here. I'm not. I just don't really get how you are so hardline in favor of this one food and don't want to hear it about anything wrong with it. All commercially prepared cat foods have pros and cons, as does a raw diet, etc. Iams is no different. We all want what's best for our cats, right?

Click to expand...

I never said that anyone is attacking me. I don't feel that way at all. It's just that I'm finding that the majority of people on forums think all by-products are bad and I'm one of the very few people who disagree and find fault in a lot of the cat foods that don't have by-products such as Muscle meat and carbohydrate style dry foods and certain canned products that don't even include liver. The canned foods I've noticed are more likely to have organ meats like liver than the dry foods among the no by-product foods.

I just haven't noticed a difference in my cats health, energy levels, coat quality regardless of whether I feed a food with by-products or not. When I see good results in my cats and they are good, it's hard for me to find a problem with the food. As far as being hardline on this food,I do feed other brands besides Iams but Iams is their main diet.

Allright Godiva, lemme throw my hat in here. IMO, all by-products are bad. They just scare me. However, when you have 8 cats outside(in the garage & shop mostly) who refuse to eat Chicken Soup & get the runs from Nutro(after 1 1/2 months I switched), you get creative. I found that Eukanuba(sample packs, like 2 dozen of them from my pet store guy ) sits well with all but my old girl. So, I tried Iams. My old girl does super well on it, so I make sure she gets 2 meals a day of it. However, I do free feed Purina Cat chow. Most of the cats never touch it, but I do have some who love their little snacks(I only give them about 1-2 cups a day). Somedays, the purina is never touched! I should add, all the other cats except my old girl eat Iams or Purina ONE, I like to give them a little variety between the two. When the sample packs of Eukanuba haven't been going well, the pet store guy calls me & offers them to me, so they get Eukanuba too.

I feed the kids inside a wide variety. Ophelia is on Science Diet s/d for crystals. Twitch & Lily are on Solid Gold(which, sadly, they don't really like & niether does anyone else), Nutro kitten(Lily's still a kitten), & the last few sample bags of EVO my pet store guy had. Damita & Chico are being switched from Science Diet i/d to Chicken Soup.

When I buy a food, I record where I bought it & the price in a notebook. I then comapre prices vs. quantity vs. quality. If you look at it, the Chicken Soup costs me $20 for 18 lbs., & Purina ONE costs me $10 for an 8 lb. bag. Don't they cost the same? If you can't get the Chicken soup, that's a different story. Is there any way to ask a pet store if they would carry it? That's why I now have access to Innova, Nutro, & Solid Gold.

BTW-the feed mill here will work with people & send out once a month bills. A 40 lb. bag of food that is a little higher quality than Purina(I don't think it had by-products) costs $18.

As far as marketing goes, don't believe evertyhing a company says about itself. It is amazing what can be said to make a product look much better than it is.

I haven't had a chance to read through all the responses to the original post, so pardon me if I'm repeating anything here.

This is an excerpt from a book I own called The New Natural Cat: A Complete Guide for Finicky Owners by Anitra Frazier with Norma Eckroate.....

If you pick up any canned cat food in your supermarket and read the tiny print under the heading “ingredientsâ€, you will undoubtedly see the words meat by-products or beef by-products. Dr. P.F. McGargle, a veterinarian who has also been a federal meat inspector, says by-products “can include moldy, rancid or spoiled processed meats as well as tissue too severely riddled with cancer to be eaten by people.†Dr. Alfred Plechner gives a more comprehensive list: “Diseased tissue, pus, hair, assorted slaughterhouse rejects, and carcasses in varying stages of decomposition are sterilized with chemicals, heat and pressure procedures.â€

Many by-products come from so-called “4-D†animals – dead, dying, diseased, and disabled – which the federal government actually allows in pet food. The theory is that all harmful bacteria and viruses are destroyed by heat processing at high temperatures, which “sterilizes†the meat by-products. How would you feel if you knew that the food you ate every day was composed of diseased meat? Even if the government is right and all the bacteria and viruses have been killed by the processing, would you consider the resulting “food†to be good for you?

Be sure to read the ingredients even when you buy in the health-food store or from your veterinarian. There is a well-known health-food brand available all over the country that contains lots of tuna and by-products. In addition, many veterinarians I know routinely endorse a brand of food that is made mostly of beef by-products or chicken by-products and contains ethoxyquin, a fat preservative that was originally invented and used as a successful pesticide. Remember, most veterinarians are not nutritionists; thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not their field.