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Just Curious

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
Will a brother and sister (same litter) mate?
post #2 of 24
Yes, they don't know the difference. So you have two unaltered cats that were littermates? If so I strongly encourage you to seperate them and get them altered!
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatKisses
Yes, they don't know the difference. So you have two unaltered cats that were littermates? If so I strongly encourage you to seperate them and get them altered!
:-), yep, I have one of each alrighty - but they are only 13 weeks right now, and will be getting them altered when the time comes, planning on waiting as long as the vet thinks is safe :-). I had our first (and only cat) male neutered around 4 months, but I'm sort of leaning on more like 5 or 6 months for these two ??.

I just wonder how the cats keep from heredity problems - very curious that there doesn't seem to be a health issue with brothers and sisters mating ... I think that Lion prides make sure they run off the males so that doesn't happen (I guess)....

Thanks for your kind response!
Gloria
post #4 of 24
Any unneutered male and unneutered female will mate - they don't know they are brother/sister. Some males and females are ready to mate and get pregnant at 4-5 months of age. Its best to get them both done as soon as possible. If you feel you must wait, then one will have to be neutered/spayed before the other. Its best to do the male first as he could start spraying in the house. But keep in mind that as soon (or before) she comes into heat, she will try to get outside.

If your vet will do them at 3-4 months of age, get them done OR keep them separated so they don't mate.

Genetically, brother/sister matings can produce unwanted traits and possible deformities, etc. So its never a good thing to let a brother/sister mating to occur.
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
Any unneutered male and unneutered female will mate - they don't know they are brother/sister. Some males and females are ready to mate and get pregnant at 4-5 months of age. Its best to get them both done as soon as possible. If you feel you must wait, then one will have to be neutered/spayed before the other. Its best to do the male first as he could start spraying in the house. But keep in mind that as soon (or before) she comes into heat, she will try to get outside.

If your vet will do them at 3-4 months of age, get them done OR keep them separated so they don't mate.

Genetically, brother/sister matings can produce unwanted traits and possible deformities, etc. So its never a good thing to let a brother/sister mating to occur.
YIKES! I thought I had plenty of time! Now that I've read your reply, well, let's just say I'M AWAKE NOW! So, when I take them back at the end of this month for their boosters I should schedule the surgery because they'll be 16 weeks, or 4 months, and at 4 months, I'm living on the edge!!! Okay, thanks for the help regarding the altering.

Also, thanks for more info on the brother/sister mating question - it's just as I thought, there IS a problem with possible deformities, etc.

So, with our situation it's even more important that we arrange for surgery as they will be 16 weeks/4 months on the 27th of this month (July) --- like I said, thanks to your help, I'm really AWAKE now!

Much appreciated!
Gloria
post #6 of 24
Thank you for getting them done as soon as possible. I know a siamese breeder who let their 5 month old little boy run with adult females thinking he didn't know anything............well that 5 month old was a "daddy" at 7 months old!

Don't underestimate!
post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
Thank you for getting them done as soon as possible. I know a siamese breeder who let their 5 month old little boy run with adult females thinking he didn't know anything............well that 5 month old was a "daddy" at 7 months old!

Don't underestimate!
Well, I sure don't want any surprises! I'm not one to "live on the edge". :-)

So, if I would get the little boy altered first (4 months) ... do you have any advice to offer- pro/con - on the best age for the little girl's surgery?

I was thinking about getting them both at the same time, because they'd both be in the Vet's at the same time and ?Maybe? less stressful having a "friend" in the next "room"? (I am taking a stuffed toy to be with each of them), but.... if there's a better time for my little Phoebe to have her surgery, I'd be interested in your input. Thanks, Gloria
post #8 of 24
Yes, absolutely they will mate with siblings!

It is more important to get the female spayed early. There are two reasons for this. First, the surgery is more invasive for a girl and young animals recover much, much more quickly. My experience is that girls who are 2-4 months old are running around a few hours after surgery and playing as if nothing ever happened. Any older than 5 months and they take a day or two to feel like playing and doing their normal stuff again. So it just seems fair to me to do the surgery when the recovery will be easiest on them. But more importantly, it is not unusual for female kittens to have their first heat cycle at 4-5 months old. They can get pregnant at that point. Even if her brother is not mature enough to be up to "the task", there is always the possibility that she could get out and another male could impregnate her.

For boys, the surgery is very minor and recovery is very fast no matter the age. Plus boys mature sexually a bit later than girls - at around 7-9 months of age. So while there is certainly no reason to put off neutering a boy, there is also less risk in waiting a bit if, say, money is tight and you can only afford to have one done at a time. Always, the rule should be to fix the girls first. But having them done at the same time is definitely a good option, and in general the sooner the better!

Interestingly, I know of some vets who say that 13 weeks is actually the absolute ideal age to spay a female cat. I'm not completely informed on all their reasons for saying so, but I can definitely say that it correlates with my personal experience.
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by semiferal
Yes, absolutely they will mate with siblings!

It is more important to get the female spayed early. There are two reasons for this. First, the surgery is more invasive for a girl and young animals recover much, much more quickly. My experience is that girls who are 2-4 months old are running around a few hours after surgery and playing as if nothing ever happened. Any older than 5 months and they take a day or two to feel like playing and doing their normal stuff again. So it just seems fair to me to do the surgery when the recovery will be easiest on them. But more importantly, it is not unusual for female kittens to have their first heat cycle at 4-5 months old. They can get pregnant at that point. Even if her brother is not mature enough to be up to "the task", there is always the possibility that she could get out and another male could impregnate her.

For boys, the surgery is very minor and recovery is very fast no matter the age. Plus boys mature sexually a bit later than girls - at around 7-9 months of age. So while there is certainly no reason to put off neutering a boy, there is also less risk in waiting a bit if, say, money is tight and you can only afford to have one done at a time. Always, the rule should be to fix the girls first. But having them done at the same time is definitely a good option, and in general the sooner the better!

Interestingly, I know of some vets who say that 13 weeks is actually the absolute ideal age to spay a female cat. I'm not completely informed on all their reasons for saying so, but I can definitely say that it correlates with my personal experience.
This information is very interesting, and informative - just what I'm looking for to make an "educated" decision.

So, surgery for the little girl (Phoebe) would be an easier recovery for her at a younger age.

How about long term health - I know in humans, bones are at risk with early hysterectomy - so, .... maybe a female cat's health concerns later in life would be something I'd be interested in learning about.

I've heard that the female cat's spaying is helpful in prevention of tumors, etc., but haven't heard anything about health problems because of the surgery - especially later, as they age.

My cats are absolutely inside cats - and, Phoebe would be less likely to escape to the out-of-doors, so, if waiting a LITTLE later for the surgery would help her as she aged, I'd be interested in that information if anyone has it.

Gloria
post #10 of 24
My oldest female cat will be 12 years old this year and has no health problems from being spayed. I dont think I have even heard of an older cat having health problems from being spayed but I could be wrong.
post #11 of 24
Cats have health problems from NOT being spayed, not from BEING spayed. Without it they can get all sorts of cancers and a really nasty disease.

Anyways, cats can be altered at 2lbs, vets who insist on waiting until 6 months are sort of old fashioned and I would personally want a vet who is a little more up to date with things.
post #12 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitytize
My oldest female cat will be 12 years old this year and has no health problems from being spayed. I dont think I have even heard of an older cat having health problems from being spayed but I could be wrong.
Well, I'd say that a 12-year old is an example of a pretty good life span of a spayed cat, and is helpful in gathering information to understand the long-term "risks" of spaying - what age was your cat spayed?

BTW, I sort of think that this thread should now be in a different category, but I don't know how to "take" it to another one....maybe the moderator could help us get this to the "health" category?

Regards,
Gloria
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen
Cats have health problems from NOT being spayed, not from BEING spayed. Without it they can get all sorts of cancers and a really nasty disease.

Anyways, cats can be altered at 2lbs, vets who insist on waiting until 6 months are sort of old fashioned and I would personally want a vet who is a little more up to date with things.
Hey, Jen
Thanks for your input ... I'm aware of the advantages of spaying ... it's just that I have a tendency to try and look at all of the issues - for my own education and information .... I don't just accept stuff because it's the most "popular" information being distributed - I'm sure you know "where" I'm coming from.

I especially appreciated your info about the weight of the cat as a significant guideline for altering ... and, if all the information here, about when a female can come into "season" is accurate, waiting 6 months to alter the female would be just plain crazy. :-)
Gloria
post #14 of 24
Ya it really is pretty crazy to wait that long when there are so many things that could happen by 6 months. I can't imagine a 6 month old cat having babies, it owuld be like an 11 year old human girl having a baby or something. Just because htey are mature doesn't mean they are ready
post #15 of 24
Gloria, our original cat Sach was 5months old when she was sterilized and she lived a long and healthy life she died when she was 19 years old. My other cat Smokey the 1st, was 6 months old when she was done and she died a the age of 16 and a half. My other cats are all sterilized and they are well and happy but still fairly young in our years. (Between 2 years and 5 years) I feel it is only in your cats best interest to be sterilized. All the best to you and your cats. Debbie
post #16 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistys mum
Gloria, our original cat Sach was 5months old when she was sterilized and she lived a long and healthy life she died when she was 19 years old. My other cat Smokey the 1st, was 6 months old when she was done and she died a the age of 16 and a half. My other cats are all sterilized and they are well and happy but still fairly young in our years. (Between 2 years and 5 years) I feel it is only in your cats best interest to be sterilized. All the best to you and your cats. Debbie
Debbie, your contribution is yet another good testimonial to add to my "comfort level" of getting the little girl (Phoebe)l and the little boy (Simon) altered around the 4-5 months of age.

You've shared about the good experiences of the females, and the altering of the female was one of my most concerns.

I've only had males, and know the most recent one - my daughter's - lived to be around ?18? or so, and that was while enduring 5 babies that my daughter would "bring home" every couple of years. He even got gray on his chin. The kids were very sad when he died as he had been with them ever since they were born.

The one thing that I did to extend his life, (he was staying with me while my daughter was in college) was surgery to enlarge his urethra after it became blocked due to crystallization build=up ... I kinda wondered if maybe he hadn't been able to mature enough causing a smaller opening - but, since then, I was directed to studies by one of the members here that indicates that probably wasn't the cause.

I had a Dobie, - female - and as she aged (she too lived past the usual age of Dobies) she became incontinent (sp?). The vet sent me to a compound pharmacy where they "cooked" up a special estrogen prescription that helped her a lot. The vet said that sometimes the dogs get spayed too quickly and felt this could have been the cause. I don't know when she got spayed, she was a lost dog when I JOYFULLY brought her into our family - what a LOVE!, I digress, sorry.

So, when it comes to spaying females - my concern is how this early spaying might contribute to health issues later in her life - that's what I'm concerned about - the quality of life as they age.

Maybe you could think back and remember how Sach and Smokey's quality of health was as they aged, and tell me about it, if you wouldn't mind. :-)

You're great to take the time to help me, and I thank you for your contribution!
Gloria
post #17 of 24
Kandie is 18 and was spayed in heat at about 4.5 months ... she has suffered no ill effects and hers was done in less than Idealic conditions... she can keep up with my wild two year old Zoey ... she has CRF( about 4 yrs)and some arthitis but otherwise very healthy

Dobies have issues later in life and they seem to all be simliar
post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky
Kandie is 18 and was spayed in heat at about 4.5 months ... she has suffered no ill effects and hers was done in less than Idealic conditions... she can keep up with my wild two year old Zoey ... she has CRF( about 4 yrs)and some arthitis but otherwise very healthy

Dobies have issues later in life and they seem to all be simliar

Whoa! I bet that experience was kinda frightening! I'm glad she's doing well.
Help me, please - what do the initials CRF stand for? What do you think about using Glucosamine for her arthritis (Flexicose has a liquid form for animals) ??

Dobies: yes, we had on-going issues after she reached an older stage of life, and she was over 80#'s, toward the end I had a terrible time loading her into the car to take her to the vet, she couldn't walk any longer - I had to lift her and she weighed almost as much as me, the whole end of her life was pretty tramatic for me even tho' I had the absolute best vet who was very tender towards her and me. Sorry for this ....really, very sorry, I probably should erase this part, eh?

Thanks, again for your post.
Gloria
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloriaJH
Whoa! I bet that experience was kinda frightening! I'm glad she's doing well.
Help me, please - what do the initials CRF stand for? What do you think about using Glucosamine for her arthritis (Flexicose has a liquid form for animals) ??

Dobies: yes, we had on-going issues after she reached an older stage of life, and she was over 80#'s, toward the end I had a terrible time loading her into the car to take her to the vet, she couldn't walk any longer - I had to lift her and she weighed almost as much as me, the whole end of her life was pretty tramatic for me even tho' I had the absolute best vet who was very tender towards her and me. Sorry for this ....really, very sorry, I probably should erase this part, eh?

Thanks, again for your post.
Gloria

No you shouldnt erase...

CRF = cronic renal failure

My vet and many vets I have close connections too all say glucosimine is good ... they vary on chondrotin needing to be with it .... Kandie take s glucosimine with msm plus a jt supplement with out those ... shell be trying accupucture next week....
post #20 of 24
Cleo was spayed at 8 weeks. She is now 12 years old. Her little incision was only about an inch long when it was done and she recovered very quickly.
post #21 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky
No you shouldnt erase...

CRF = cronic renal failure

My vet and many vets I have close connections too all say glucosimine is good ... they vary on chondrotin needing to be with it .... Kandie take s glucosimine with msm plus a jt supplement with out those ... shell be trying accupucture next week....
I'm glad to hear that your contacts think that glucosimine is helpful.

For my personal use, I've "bought into" the idea that liquid gets into the system better - so that's what I use. If you are interested, the Flexicose is the liquid form I use, and they advertise for animals, too. The formula is Glucosamine, Chondroitin, and MSM Complex. After you open the bottle, you do need to refrigerate. It has a self-measuring container, and from my brochure it says that a pet weighing 1-10lbs daily dose is 1/32oz, and that a bottle should last 256 days and 11-40lbs is 1/16 oz dose, lasting 128 days.

If you're interested about checking it out, I've found an online store that will ship free, you get a break when you order 3 bottles or more. The manufacturer is DTC, but the online store is D and D Enterprises - think it's a few pennys cheaper --the web address for pets is: http://www.flexicose-usa.com/flexicose.pets.html

I haven't stopped to "cost" it out, but sometimes IF something works better, it might actually be less expensive ... kinda like the quality of food :-).

Thank you for your compassion, and providing the information about the initials CRF.

I hope the accupuncture gives her some pain relief, will be thinking about you during this process.

Best regards,
Gloria
post #22 of 24
Gloria
Thanks for that link ... it would run about the same as the stuff I use now but it has some herbs my vets recommends so I will run it by her tonight when I pick up Gigi... Liguid would be easier than me crushing pills daily ..
Jennifer
post #23 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky
Gloria
Thanks for that link ... it would run about the same as the stuff I use now but it has some herbs my vets recommends so I will run it by her tonight when I pick up Gigi... Liguid would be easier than me crushing pills daily ..
Jennifer
Glad I was able to help. Hopefully your vet will approve, and, yes - the liquid would be a lot easier to administer to her. :-)

Gloria
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by romeoslover
Cleo was spayed at 8 weeks. She is now 12 years old. Her little incision was only about an inch long when it was done and she recovered very quickly.
Thanks for your info - WOW that WAS a small incision - that's great! Since she's now 12, I'm guessing the early altering hasn't had any negative effects on her, and that's even better.

Gloria
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