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Western Union Defers money sent to Muslims

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I think this is incredibly stupid, and an abuse of the US Terrorism Lists. The fact that the most common Names in any islamic community are "problematic" is a bit like saying you're offended by mexicans named Jesus. All this from a person named NIXON BABY.

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/sto...07-06-09-28-24
post #2 of 25
That's crazy.... Ok so if I don't like the name John or Katie I can discrminate against them? How ignorant is that!
post #3 of 25
The United States probably is interested in restricting all wiring money to overseas if it can help it.

More money wired overseas=less money staying in the U.S.
post #4 of 25
I hate the thought of it, and know logically that it is wrong, but people (voters) are still very frightened at the thought of another terrorist attack. All Americans have given up at least a few small personal freedoms, and are more apt to be scrutinized by the authorities than ever before. I am sorry that innocent people have been discriminated against, even harrassed, but they still have more freedom here than in many countries.
Look what happened during WWII. Japanese people, even some Americans of Japanese descent were rounded up and imprisoned. It was an awful thing, but again, people were scared, so the government did what they could until they could figure out just what to do.
I am IN NO WAY suggesting that everyone with an Arabic sounding name should be imprisoned, harrassed, discriminated against, or harmed in any way, but it is a no win situation for the powers that be. If no one else ever turns out to be a terrorist, we have treated them horribly and Americans are just mean, arrogant jerks. If they do, an the government stood by and didn't watch closely enough to prevent another attack.
Just today the FBI uncovered a plot to blow up the Holland tunnel, and arrested a man in Beruit, who says he was under orders from Osama Bin Laden.
Once again, I truly hate it for the people of Arab descent that are suffering because a few people are intent on harming Americans, but I would rather be safe than sorry. Just my
post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazy kat2
All Americans have given up at least a few small personal freedoms, and are more apt to be scrutinized by the authorities than ever before.
Personally, I am furious that I have given up "a few small personal freedoms," all in the name of fear, paranoia, and governmental control of the masses. It's wrong, and it's not one of the ideals that this great country of ours was founded on. I was under the impression that the founding fathers wanted to preserve every small personal freedom we have.
Just out of curiousity, if the government passed a law banning the possession of firearms, all in the name of preventing terrorism and protecting you, how many would be okay with it?
post #6 of 25
I think discriminating against people who have muslim names is wrong and counter-productive anyways. I mean... do you really think the terrorist organizations wont find a way around this? I think it will only create more resentement towards the United States and re-inforce its image as close-minded and repressive towards other people.

How long will it take the US government (or in this case, companies) to figure out that the way to end terrorism is NOT to give people more reasons to be angry at the US?
Oh wait, I forgot... the only reason anyone would really find anything wrong with US foreign policy is because they "hate freedom"
post #7 of 25
I am glad to give up a few personal freedoms if it means we will be safer.
I think our govt is trying to keep another 9-11 from happening.
How soon we forget.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoe'n'MissKitty
Personally, I am furious that I have given up "a few small personal freedoms," all in the name of fear, paranoia, and governmental control of the masses. It's wrong, and it's not one of the ideals that this great country of ours was founded on. I was under the impression that the founding fathers wanted to preserve every small personal freedom we have.
Just out of curiousity, if the government passed a law banning the possession of firearms, all in the name of preventing terrorism and protecting you, how many would be okay with it?

Do you actually notice any freedoms being taken away? I actually haven't.

I think the media hyped it up and it is not as intrusive as you think. The government cannot possibly have power to look into the lives of anybody named Muhammand. Even in the U.S. there are hundreds of thousands of them.
post #9 of 25
I can understand where they're coming from, but it's very sad that a whole group is being punished for the actions of just a few.
post #10 of 25
"So this is how democracy dies...to the sound of applause."
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazy kat2
I hate the thought of it, and know logically that it is wrong, but people (voters) are still very frightened at the thought of another terrorist attack. All Americans have given up at least a few small personal freedoms, and are more apt to be scrutinized by the authorities than ever before. I am sorry that innocent people have been discriminated against, even harrassed, but they still have more freedom here than in many countries.
Look what happened during WWII. Japanese people, even some Americans of Japanese descent were rounded up and imprisoned. It was an awful thing, but again, people were scared, so the government did what they could until they could figure out just what to do.
I am IN NO WAY suggesting that everyone with an Arabic sounding name should be imprisoned, harrassed, discriminated against, or harmed in any way, but it is a no win situation for the powers that be. If no one else ever turns out to be a terrorist, we have treated them horribly and Americans are just mean, arrogant jerks. If they do, an the government stood by and didn't watch closely enough to prevent another attack.
Just today the FBI uncovered a plot to blow up the Holland tunnel, and arrested a man in Beruit, who says he was under orders from Osama Bin Laden.
Once again, I truly hate it for the people of Arab descent that are suffering because a few people are intent on harming Americans, but I would rather be safe than sorry. Just my
I second that
post #12 of 25
Do we really think Al Qaeda is transferring money in $120 increments through Western Union? Come on.
post #13 of 25
Anyone can be a terrorist, though, not just Muslims. In my lifetime, of the terrorist events I've lived through, more of them have been done by white, protestant Americans than Muslims. Oklahoma City, Ted Kazinsky (sp?) and the mail bombs, supposedly the Olympic bombing in Atlanta, the sniper on 270 in Columbus, the sniper in DC (who was Islamic, and black, but American-born), abortion clinic bombers, etc. Only two have been done by foreign, Islamic people, and both of them were on the World Trade Center. There's many more before I can remember too, and they weren't Arab Muslims either.
The same is true in England, they have had a couple major attacks by Islmaic extremists, but compared to the terrorism done by the IRA before, it's far fewer.

And yet, we only profile Islamic people. Why not people who graduated from ivy league schools? Why not people who are in militias? Why not everyone with a mental health disorder? Or hermits? Or pro-lifers, which is really the best example. Some very very few turn into extremists, and decide that their cause justifies murder. The vast majority of pro-lifers do not agree with this. Just like Islamic terrorists.

Is it okay for the police to discriminate against african-americans because statistically (whether the statistics are accurate may be debatable) they are more likely to commit a crime?

If someone is proven to have links to a known terrorist org, or have stated intentions to harm people, no matter what race, religion, or nationality they are, then we can profile them, follow them, spy on them, arrest them, whatever.
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom
If someone is proven to have links to a known terrorist org, or have stated intentions to harm people, no matter what race, religion, or nationality they are, then we can profile them, follow them, spy on them, arrest them, whatever.
Or you can be like my fiancรƒยฉ and have a common "american" first and last name and have dual citizenship in the US and Hungary. Flying with him has become a huge hassel as he's on some sort of "watch list" that no one will explain to us and he'll be on it idefinitely. We haven't heard of anyway to get him taken off (other than not performing terrorist acts I suppose!).

He has to get super extra special clearance which takes awhile. I guess they're checking that he doesn't have any warrants against him. He's actually missed flights before because the security check takes so long.

Not quite as dire as not getting needed finances, but I think its an example of an american loosing rights for "freedom".

~Julia
post #15 of 25
A lot of people have that problem. Many anti-war activists who have never done anything violent in their lives are on that list too. That must be such a hassle to try and fly when the government doesn't like you because of your ideas, or dual citizenship, when you have done and don't intend to do anything wrong.

It's ridiculous, and totally unjustifiable.

There was a man from nearby here whose husband was "arrested" and taken to Guantanamo. I have personally spoken to his wife, and I do not think he did a darn thing. His business card happened to end up in the apartment of someone who had a very weak link to a terrorist organization, but he had never met this person nor shown any other signs of anything. I mean, if you give out business cards, do you know where they all are? It's amazing something that small could land you in prison for that long (he's out now, but it took years) when the same thing would be laughed out of a real court.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by krazy kat2
I
Once again, I truly hate it for the people of Arab descent that are suffering because a few people are intent on harming Americans,

I agree....my husband and his family are arabic...they are from Lebanon and there are many people from palenstine in our church. I hate it that when people look at someone from our church, they automatically think that they might be associated with terrorists. This week is our annual arabic convention which is at a hotel attached to a mall. So you should see the looks that we get....it's pretty sad.
post #17 of 25
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

-Benjamin Franklin
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom
And yet, we only profile Islamic people. Why not people who graduated from ivy league schools? Why not people who are in militias? Why not everyone with a mental health disorder? Or hermits? Or pro-lifers, which is really the best example. Some very very few turn into extremists, and decide that their cause justifies murder. The vast majority of pro-lifers do not agree with this. Just like Islamic terrorists.
.
So now i'm statistically more likely to become a terrorist because I do not support the murder of innocent lives??? That's is about the most twisted philosophy i've ever heard! I work with children on a daily basis- I am active in my community, i volunteer at the local rape crisis center, and i support pro-life groups. But in no way shape of form would i ever harm someone who is pro-choice or has had an abortion. If anything, i'm supportive and understand that people are not perfect and make mistakes- they do not deserve to be blown up for that. I'm certainly not perfect myself! I am in no way a terrorist, and i definitely take offense that you seem to think that "pro-lifers are really the best examples of terrorists." I'm pro- life and i'm proud of it! I personally believe that life begins at conception, so ending that life after it has begun to me is murder. That is my personal conviction and belief. I am entitled to my beliefs just as you are -but i strongly disagree that pro- lifers are much more likely to commit an act of terrorism than any other radical group. I believe that humans are capable of anything....reguardless of race, origion, religious convictions, or location. So to take such a harsh stance against people who are against abortion, is unnecessary, just as it would be for me to set your house on fire or threaten you because you believe differently than me.

~By the way, you make a good argument for your viewpoint. I'm glad i can debate you- it's good to see both sides of the issue and have a friendly debate.
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaynna
I agree....my husband and his family are arabic...they are from Lebanon and there are many people from palenstine in our church. I hate it that when people look at someone from our church, they automatically think that they might be associated with terrorists. This week is our annual arabic convention which is at a hotel attached to a mall. So you should see the looks that we get....it's pretty sad.
I understand what you and your family are going through. I'm 1/2 Isralie as is part of my family.(Personally, i'm a Messianic-Jew (converted-Jew.)) I am a Christian so i go to church like many people- although i frequent my synagogue often to observe my Jewish heritage and pray. It's sad to see family members get made fun of by uneducated people because they go to synagogue on saturday and will not work on the sabbath, or because they wear a yarmulka. I say uneducated because educated individuals, reguardless of race, origion, or ethnicity, or religion should know better than to look at someone differently because of the clothes they wear or the color of their skin. I personally don't care where someone is from, middle east, minnesota, denmark....who cares! What matters is the persons intentions and understanding that yes, while there are terrrorists from the middle east- there are also terrorists in the US that are US citizens, there are terrorists in every country of every part of the world- anyone is capable of being a terrorist...and you don't need dark hair and a dark complexion to be a more likely canidate. It is sad when someone is simply going to pray with their family and friends and they get belittled and looked at differently. I definitely understand and sympathize with what your family is going through
post #20 of 25
Hey StarryEyedTiger, you too are a fun and formidable foe in friendly debate.

If I may respond...

"So now i'm statistically more likely to become a terrorist because I do not support the murder of innocent lives??? That's is about the most twisted philosophy i've ever heard! ...I am in no way a terrorist, and i definitely take offense that you seem to think that "pro-lifers are really the best examples of terrorists." ...-but i strongly disagree that pro- lifers are much more likely to commit an act of terrorism than any other radical group"

Actually you are proving my point.

A few pro-lifers are extremely radical and extremely violent, while the vast majority are like yourself. Just as a few Islamic people are extremely radical and extremely violent, while the vast majority are peaceful as well. I suppose I could have used other examples, such as ELF being a violent extremist group while most Environmentalists are the antithesis of that, or how nearly everyone who supports animal welfare is not like PeTA.

I did not say that pro-lifers are the best examples of terrorists. I would be offended by that too, what I said was the group of people classified as "Pro-lifers" are a goo comparison to all people who are Islamic, in that, as I said originally, "Some very very few turn into extremists, and decide that their cause justifies murder".

So just like you are appalled at those violent, extreme "pro-lifers" who are also terrorists, most Islamic people are appalled at acts of terrorism. This is especially true in America, where it is much more likely that Islamics will practice less strict forms of the religion (as is true of most other religions in America as well).

I never once compared pro-lifers to terrorists. Just like I never compared the terroristic pro-life extremists to Muslims.

I do disagree with one thing though. In my personal experience, pro-life radicals are more likely to commit acts of violence than other groups of similar size. Also, they are more likely, paradoxically, to murder. ELF blows up Hummer dealerships when they are unoccupied, etc. They cause millions in damage, but do not intentionally hurt people. In fact, I've never heard of any other extremist group that intentionally killed people. But I remember numerous murders committed by pro-life extremists. I suppose we could say that people like the KKK have done far more killing and maiming and hurting, but I do not believe there to be such a thing as a non-radical racist.
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom
Hey StarryEyedTiger, you too are a fun and formidable foe in friendly debate.

If I may respond...

"So now i'm statistically more likely to become a terrorist because I do not support the murder of innocent lives??? That's is about the most twisted philosophy i've ever heard! ...I am in no way a terrorist, and i definitely take offense that you seem to think that "pro-lifers are really the best examples of terrorists." ...-but i strongly disagree that pro- lifers are much more likely to commit an act of terrorism than any other radical group"

Actually you are proving my point.

A few pro-lifers are extremely radical and extremely violent, while the vast majority are like yourself. Just as a few Islamic people are extremely radical and extremely violent, while the vast majority are peaceful as well. I suppose I could have used other examples, such as ELF being a violent extremist group while most Environmentalists are the antithesis of that, or how nearly everyone who supports animal welfare is not like PeTA.

I did not say that pro-lifers are the best examples of terrorists. I would be offended by that too, what I said was the group of people classified as "Pro-lifers" are a goo comparison to all people who are Islamic, in that, as I said originally, "Some very very few turn into extremists, and decide that their cause justifies murder".

So just like you are appalled at those violent, extreme "pro-lifers" who are also terrorists, most Islamic people are appalled at acts of terrorism. This is especially true in America, where it is much more likely that Islamics will practice less strict forms of the religion (as is true of most other religions in America as well).

I never once compared pro-lifers to terrorists. Just like I never compared the terroristic pro-life extremists to Muslims.

I do disagree with one thing though. In my personal experience, pro-life radicals are more likely to commit acts of violence than other groups of similar size. Also, they are more likely, paradoxically, to murder. ELF blows up Hummer dealerships when they are unoccupied, etc. They cause millions in damage, but do not intentionally hurt people. In fact, I've never heard of any other extremist group that intentionally killed people. But I remember numerous murders committed by pro-life extremists. I suppose we could say that people like the KKK have done far more killing and maiming and hurting, but I do not believe there to be such a thing as a non-radical racist.
Tuche! Thankyou for clarifying your stance on pro-lifers. I missunderstood you. I do however disagree that pro-life extremists are the most likely radical group of individuals to kill people- i could simply respond that doctors who preform abortions are killing more people on a daily basis than radical pro-lifers ever have. It's all relative on how you look at it. I second you on not believing in such a thing as a non-radical racist- i just don't see how it's possible to hate someone simply because of their skin or eye color and not be a radical racist.

By the way, Zissou's new siggy is really cute!
post #22 of 25
I know Im a little late but you guys should (if you havent yet) watch
911 in plane sight/site. Its not the only documantary related to the same thing but might help in figuring out who the real terrorists are.

I hate getting into this kind of talk cuz Im frustrated all over, Im just waiting..........for Election day, you'll see how things change once you know who is no longer our president.

But really, you should watch that documentary, its great.
post #23 of 25
sorry nothing going to change on election day.
are the muslims terrorist going to just go oh ok different american and or british PM in office now, we can be nice to those in the west, its not going to happen.

I was in Indonesia when muslims gangs where running around from hotel to hotel looking for any western person to beat up, and that was with clinton in office and the whole world was suppose to love him.

did bush makes mistakes of course he did I can think of 3 other places that where much better idea then Iraq, did clinton oh yea, several big ones that led up to this point. So did several other americans that where in that office.

to make peace,here is very simple but hard thing to do,
stop all support of Israel,
Stop driving
stop letting movies and american TV shows be sent over seas, some of them hate what they say is the "american cultural" they think all of us rich, have free sex, and like oh my god we let are women out of the house to work(not joking i really did get asked that question once, if we really let women go out without a male family escort)

anyway, my point is this, changing one person in office is not going to make this issue go way. will the next one say oh ok Iran you want nukes go right ahead, oh north korea you want missles sure no problem go right ahead,, lets hope not.
post #24 of 25
Lets get things in to perspective,this is a cat welfare forum not a political springboard for any religious organisation,so why don't we pay more attention to the animal welfare issues that we may be able to do something about.
Rather that spouting off about our own personal beliefs and issues.

If anybody wants political debates on this issue then I am sure there are a lot of more
'productive' places on the internet for these issues.

This thread is already on the second page.

"Brittany spears nearly drops baby" is already on page nine.......really ?
.....HOW PATHETIC ,surely there are more important issues that people can discuss than somebody elses baby.
post #25 of 25
The IMO forum was designed for just such issues (see the two stickies at the top of the forum) -- because, while the majority of people come to this site with cats and cat welfare as their focus, once they arrive and meet other people, there are other things they want to chew the fat about -- and since some of those things are controversial, we provided a place away from the cat stuff for the more contentious discussions to happen. We don't even let minors or very new members in here, and if the discussions in here are not to anyone's taste, there are bags of other forums -- where we DO talk about cats -- to visit.

If we talk about perspective, let me offer a couple of other scenarios: In your lunch room at work, or around the water cooler, do you talk only about work? -- or do you talk about what else is going on in your lives and the world? When you go to your [insert activity] of an evening, do you talk only about that activity? -- or do you shoot the breeze about what else is going on in your lives and the world? It's the same here. We have a common reason for being here, but that doesn't mean it's the only thing we want to talk about.

End of hijack -- I'll let you all get back to the topic at hand now.
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