OMG - She is a Pedigree

madpiano · Jul 2, 2006

I found out last week, that Gizmois a pedigree Maine Coon.

I have no idea how she ended up in a pet shop, being sold for a pitance, when she could have fetched Â£1000 or more (being a ginger female).

Now my Question... whne do Maine Coons get fertile?

I promised my daughter one litter (don't worry, we live in London... we can get rid of them), but my friend breedss Maine Coons nd I wanted her stud to breed with Giizmo... When do I start to keep her in, and when is she ready for this 12pds monster ???????

hopehacker · Jul 2, 2006

I wouldn't let a cat outside, period. It's safer for them indoors, and she won't miss the outside, when you decide to confine her. I'm assuming you're talking about the kitten, on the left of your signature. She's a cute little thing. I definately wouldn't let a Pedigree cat outside. Aside from all of the other dangers the out of doors has in store for them, someone could steal her. I don't know if Maine Coons mature slower than other cats or not. So, I'm not sure when she might start going in season, but I'm sure her crying will be a big indicator

jen · Jul 2, 2006

You should not be breeding a cat from a pet store. Pedigree or not. A real ethical breeder is not going to let you use her stud to get your cat pregnant when you know nothing of your cat's genetic, history. You don't know if disease runs in the family or if there are problems. She could have some genetic trait that is not something you would want passed down to her offspring. How did you suddenly find out she is pedigreed?

Please spay her, and if you really want your daughter to experience a birth, foster pregnant females from a shelter who have no other place to give birth in and run the risk of being put to sleep.

If you do decide to let her have a litter so your daughter can witness it, please show her the other half of it. Take her to a kill shelter and show her the negative sides of allowing your cat to reproduce. Show her the millions of cats in the world that are being put to sleep because "backyard breeders" and "just one litter" people keep doing doing this, and allowing their kittens to fill up the homes that may otherwise be filled by cats who are already homeless and needy.

Ethical, responsible breeders study their breed and their entire genetic make up and personalities for years before even beginning to breed. It take a LOT of time and money. It isn't just throw two cats together, let them get it on, then sell the babies for some money or because you have friends who want one. It is something that takes years to organize and set up.

Ask yourself this: Are you ready to put a lot of money into emergency vet visits if something goes wrong and you need an emergency c-section? Are you ready to have the responsibility of raising these kittens yourself if the mother rejects them? This can happen if she isn't ready for babies and doesn't know what to do or if they are born with a disease (which is the benefit of knowing her entire genetic background before breeding in the first place) You will have to be up every 2 hours to feed them all day long. They are all going to need 2 or 3 sets of shots plus spaying and neutering before going to new homes and the same with the mother. Are you ready for all that? See why breeding is such a big deal and how important it is to know your cats ancestry?

Do not breed a pet store cat. Spay her because that is the humane, responsible thing to do.

familytimerags · Jul 2, 2006

Originally Posted by Jen

You should not be breeding a cat from a pet store. Pedigree or not. A real ethical breeder is not going to let you use her stud to get your cat pregnant when you know nothing of your cat's genetic, history. You don't know if disease runs in the family or if there are problems. She could have some genetic trait that is not something you would want passed down to her offspring. How did you suddenly find out she is pedigreed?

Please spay her, and if you really want your daughter to experience a birth, foster pregnant females from a shelter who have no other place to give birth in and run the risk of being put to sleep.

If you do decide to let her have a litter so your daughter can witness it, please show her the other half of it. Take her to a kill shelter and show her the negative sides of allowing your cat to reproduce. Show her the millions of cats in the world that are being put to sleep because "backyard breeders" and "just one litter" people keep doing doing this, and allowing their kittens to fill up the homes that may otherwise be filled by cats who are already homeless and needy.

Ethical, responsible breeders study their breed and their entire genetic make up and personalities for years before even beginning to breed. It take a LOT of time and money. It isn't just throw two cats together, let them get it on, then sell the babies for some money or because you have friends who want one. It is something that takes years to organize and set up.

Ask yourself this: Are you ready to put a lot of money into emergency vet visits if something goes wrong and you need an emergency c-section? Are you ready to have the responsibility of raising these kittens yourself if the mother rejects them? This can happen if she isn't ready for babies and doesn't know what to do or if they are born with a disease (which is the benefit of knowing her entire genetic background before breeding in the first place) You will have to be up every 2 hours to feed them all day long. They are all going to need 2 or 3 sets of shots plus spaying and neutering before going to new homes and the same with the mother. Are you ready for all that? See why breeding is such a big deal and how important it is to know your cats ancestry?

Do not breed a pet store cat. Spay her because that is the humane, responsible thing to do.

Jen, I couldn't have said it better. Please spay your all of your pets, it is much healthier for them. As Jen said, there are many, many cats that are pregnant that need foster homes, your daughter can experience a birth this way, while making a difference that she can feel proud of.
Do you have her registration papers? If not, how can you know what they are saying is true? There are genetic problems that can run in Maine Coons, and without knowing the past generations, you have no idea if you will produce healthy or genetically UNsound kittens. Please reconsider. I also can't stress enough, how expensive breeding is, without emergencies coming up, but with an emergency, you are talking a lot of money to have just one litter.

joeman11 · Jul 2, 2006

wow you get touchy about that but ya i kinda agree with you but you come off a little harsh I would have her spayed then go and foster a kitty and you will be doing alot more good than geting your pedigree pregnant. Btw Jen mabie if you could tone it down a bit... im sure it would help people do the right thing.

familytimerags · Jul 2, 2006

I apologize if I came off as harsh, it is not my intention. I have met many people who believe that having a piece of paper saying a cat is purebred, that it makes the cat automatically breeding quality. That isn't the case at all. That isn't quite the point I was trying to make however, my point is there is a lot of research to be done in general regarding breeding cats, not to mention to know as much about the specific breed you are working with, and the cats behind your own. I am unsure of all the health problems facing Maine Coons, however I do know HCM is one genetic problem, and a breeder should have their own cats scanned as well as knowing the how the parents, grandparents and on down scanned.
My hope is to educate those who have the notion to have "just one litter". It is much healthier for a cat to be spayed or neutered. If one wants to experience the joy (sometimes saddness) in the birth of kittens, I believe fostering cats who need it, is the best way to go. As well, depending on the age of the child, he/she may find the experience frightening. The Momma cat will sometimes cry out, there is usually plenty of birthing fluids, including blood. Not to mention, there is a chance a problem could arise.
It also seemed from the original post, that they may not actually have the papers, just heard somehow that the cat is purebred. If one doesn't have papers, one doesn't know if the cat is indeed a Maine Coon.
Again, I am not trying to step on any toes, just trying to make the original poster think twice before bringing more kittens into the world.

joeman11 · Jul 2, 2006

well i wasnt talking about you lol i was talking about Jen but anywho... it seems everyone gets "funky" when talking about this subject

goldenkitty45 · Jul 2, 2006

Whoa back up - you have NO idea of your cats real background. Pet shops are notorious for false papers on pedigrees. And I cannot imagine your friend letting you use their males for breeding without quality - good pedigree, shown, etc.

If your friend does, then I would consider them a backyard breeder who doesn't care about the maine coon breed.

IMO you are only wanting a litter to make money or worse. Your statement of "get rid of them (kittens)" has me concerned.

Red tabby females are not all that rare. A good breeder knows the breed and is concerned about where the kittens are placed, any pet quality offspring is neutered or spayed and show cats are carefully placed in proper homes.

What happens if your cat has kittens and has complications and you lose the mother or worse? You want your child to witness all that too? PLEASE do not breed your cat - she will be much healthier spayed. Maine coons are usually not even bred before they are about 18 months - for full development. And some lines have problems with hip displaysia which you don't want in the breeding program.

I showed cats for many years and are pretty familiar with most breeds and quality. I have many maine coon breeder friends. If the kitten in question is indeed the little red tabby/white in your picture, then she is NOT show quality at all - she is pet quality and should not be bred!

jen · Jul 2, 2006

Originally Posted by joeman11

well i wasnt talking about you lol i was talking about Jen but anywho... it seems everyone gets "funky" when talking about this subject

Because it is the wrong reasons to breed a cat and this board is here to promote spaying and neutered cats unless you are a breeder and especially an unregistered cat. We are against backyard breeding. I said it as nicely as possible. It is such a touchy subject because it is one that people who backyard breed don't realize needs to be stopped or controlled better.

I wish everyone who thinks it is okay to breed their cat just because it is possibly a purebred would consider the flip side of it. They are just throwing out all the hard work that real breeders go through to learn everything about breeding and to build a name for themselves so produce high quality, great personality cats from a guarenteed, registered, healthy, excellent line of cats. Go to the shelters and see the cats that are going to be killed because people keep thinking "just one litter" is okay to do because they know people who want them.

jen · Jul 2, 2006

Originally Posted by madpiano

(don't worry, we live in London... we can get rid of them),

do you think that makes it okay? And "get rid of them" concerns me too. a breeder does not "get rid" of their kittens.

joeman11 · Jul 2, 2006

I agree with you jen. I beleve everyone needs to cool down or you will scare her off and alot of good that will do. I think "I can get rid of them" means that she can find homes for them, it dosent mean I dont think it means throw them out on the road (i hope not). I also beleve it was a attempt at humor...

goldenkitty45 · Jul 2, 2006

I didn't take the statement to mean they would be tossed out - but I took it as "I'll find homes for them without screening the people or requiring them to neuter/spay any of the kittens".

More or less hand them over to whoever shows interest.

jen · Jul 2, 2006

Ya I am assuming that too. It is all about the choice of wording though

A lot of people say get rid of when they really mean find a new home. I was more cocerned with the "don't worry we live in London" part. Are there no homeless unwanted cats in London? What difference does it make where you are from when what you are doing is wrong?

ginava · Jul 2, 2006

I will probably get jumped all over for saying this but, here goes, those of us who are involved in rescue work see things no cat lovers should ever see, all thanks to people who dont spay and neuter, and "love to have kittens around." I know sometimes there are accidents, that can happen, Im not talking about a litter that hapened because you didnt spay soon enough. People post that have 3, 4 "mom" cats that they allow to breed and breed. I see the results of all that, and believe me its horrifying. we try to do what we can to clean up the mess these people make, and its the cats who suffer of course in the end. Thats my two cents.

madpiano · Jul 3, 2006

whoa - I think you all misunderstood me... I am not intending to breed her as a pedigree.... sh is from a Petshop after all, so there is a healthy chance that she is at least part moggie and she certainly isn't show quality, but she is pretty, and in the UK MCs aren't that common.

I will find out where she came from form the Pet Shop, to make sure there is no genetic issues, and yes, I am prepared to pay emergency vet-fees and handfeed kittens, should it be necessary.

I wont be selling the kittens as "pedigree Maine Coon" either. As I don't have papers and I don't know how much Moggie Genes Gizmo has. But I thought she might as well breed with another Maine Coon, rather than a backyard Tom from round here.

I can't foster a pregnant female, as I don't have a cat flap, and therefore I am deemed unsuitable to have a cat by the local rescue groups. Before I got Gizmo and Bubbles, I tried to get rescue cats for months. Contrary to the US, cats have to have access to outside here. My cats do go outside, just not 24/7....and I keep them in during the "young-bird" season. The shelter didn't like that.

I already have homes for 4 kittens, and I don't intend to make money from them. The 4 Kittens will actually go for free to my friends. And it will be her only litter. I do know the risks, and I have saved up holiday at work, should anything go wrong.

My question was really, when do Maine Coons mature ? Or when can they get pregnant ? I don't want her to be pregnant too early and I will have to prepare for keeping her indoors for a while, so the local Toms don't get to her. They are already marking the front door, so I am assuming she is getting there...

She is just under 5 months old at the moment.

urbantigers · Jul 3, 2006

Please don't breed from your cat. Imo, breeding should only be done by those with a lot of knowledge of the breed involved, knowledge of the genetics and health of not only the potential dam but of several previous generations, and the knowledge and desire to further the breed. You may or may not have a pure bred maine coone (without papers it's simply a lovely moggy) but you will not get anyone with a maine coon stud to breed with your cat. I presume you intend to breed her with a moggy or with a pet maine coon? Either way you will not produce registered maine coons but moggies that may look like maine coons. I beg you not to do that - shelters are full of unwanted cats - please don't add to the problem.

Originally Posted by madpiano

I will find out where she came from form the Pet Shop, to make sure there is no genetic issues,

Sorry but I can't see how the pet shop will know your cat's background and pedigree. I don't know how your cat ended up in a pet shop, but I'd guess that either someone didn't want her anymore and instead of returning her to the breeder just abandoned her or sold her to a pet shop, or she's not a purebred but a cross (cat got out and all that!) that someone just wanted rid of. Either way it's really not a good idea to breed from her.

Please ask your friends to go to a local shelter if they want a kitten or if they specifically want a maine coone they could go to a maine coon rescue or a registered breeder. If you are intending to breed her to another pet maine coon bear in mind that mose pedigree cats sold are sold with a contract that states they must be spayed/neutered and must not be bred from.

goldenkitty45 · Jul 3, 2006

Please go back and read EVERY reply we have made.

The pet shop will be of no real help in finding out anything on the background of your cat. Even IF the cat is a maine coon (how did you find out in the first place), more then likely it was from a backyard breeder who "claims" to have them or worse, a kitten mill. Either way your cat should NOT be bred.

And your friend with maine coons, why would he/she WANT to breed to your cat? Without knowing the background, the pedigree, and proving your cat has the top qualities to be bred, he/she is NOT (and you too) improving the breed in any way.

Most MC breeders do NOT even consider breeding their cats till around 18 MONTHS old - your cat is far to young to be bred in the first place. Even if she does come into heat at an early age.

You say you have homes for 4 kittens - what if she only has 1 kitten? And WHY do you want to even breed her? Because she "supposedly" is a maine coon? What prove do you have that she is? And to admit that she might not be ALL maine coon is the main reason NOT to be breeding her period!

Plus even if you go against all we've pleaded, and you do manage to find someone willing to breed her, will you require those getting her kittens to be neutered or spayed? If not, then you are a backyard breeder who really doesn't care about your cat at all.

katiemae1277 · Jul 3, 2006

Originally Posted by madpiano

I can't foster a pregnant female, as I don't have a cat flap, and therefore I am deemed unsuitable to have a cat by the local rescue groups. Before I got Gizmo and Bubbles, I tried to get rescue cats for months. Contrary to the US, cats have to have access to outside here. My cats do go outside, just not 24/7....and I keep them in during the "young-bird" season. The shelter didn't like that.

I find this extremely hard to believe- in the UK cats are REQUIRED to be allowed outside? I think some of TCS's UK members can refute this statement?

zak&rocky · Jul 3, 2006

Madpiano, please don't take this the wrong way, but I think a lot of members here take issue with you breeding a cat that isn't definitely a pedigree, and that you don't have papers for. There are lost of unwanted cats and lots of people here work in shelters and rescue unwanted cats. I don't know much about England but I do know that there are members here from England whose cats are indoor only. Why a shelter would want unspayed females outside is beyond me. Please understand that this board does not promote breeding of cats except by registered breeders. You do see a lot of people having kittens in this forum, but a lot of the posters are either fostering or have had an unfortunate accidental pregnancy.

maverick_kitten · Jul 3, 2006

Originally Posted by katiemae1277

I find this extremely hard to believe- in the UK cats are REQUIRED to be allowed outside? I think some of TCS's UK members can refute this statement?

Actually, madpiano is right.

The large majority of London cat rescue groups will not re-home a cat to a household that does not have a garden or a catflap.

I can give you links to my 4 local shelters if anyone wants to dispute this.

OMG - She is a Pedigree

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