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I have kind of an odd question about Persians - Page 2

post #31 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
I may have the oppisite definition on comtempary burms, but I think they are burms that are not so rounded head type - a little longer in the nose. I've heard of the term but can't remember if they mean the "extreme" burm or the more moderate burm

I agree on the calico link - that's the type I was looking for - the ideal persian - not too extreme but with a nice open flat faced look - not with the "mean" expression that some persians get.

Roscoe almost reminds me of a little maine coon in the background.
Honestly that Persian is what we strive for and I hate people telling me that Persians who are being bred to the standard and wrong blah blah blah...

Here are a few examples of my cats:

my girl Bridget






Only a baby in these pictures so excuse the big ears but I wouldn't call her extreme. She did very well as a baby.

This cat is currently the top cat overall in this country -



This is the last kitten I bred - extreme? NO!



Another kitten I bred (Bridget's litter brother)



Applause - one of my longer nosed kittens - had worse eye problems then her snub nosed siblings



Another of our kittens



one of my Nana's queens

post #32 of 43
I hate this blanket statment that PERSIANS have bad health. It's like me saying all Domestic owners are careless because there cats are always getting knocked up by mongrel cats. I wouldn't use a blanket statment like that because I know of a lot of responsible Domestic cat owners whos cats don't get mated by the local tom - it's exactly the same not all Persians have health problems and not all Persian breeders are bad. Please stop making these statements.
post #33 of 43
I've got to go to the Pedigree Persian Cat Fanciers meeting now but I'll be back to talk more tomorow.
post #34 of 43
Wellington, if you were referring to my post, them I apologize. I wasn't making statements of any kind. I had heard some things mentioned and was asking questions about it.

I'm sure not all breeders are sacrificing the cats health for extreme features. But there is enough talk to make me think that SOME are. If there are, what if anything can or should be done about it?
post #35 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn
I'm sure not all breeders are sacrificing the cats health for extreme features. But there is enough talk to make me think that SOME are. If there are, what if anything can or should be done about it?
The only way to affect the conformation is to become involved in the breed- no one outside of it is going to affect anything, nor should they be able to.
Judges only judge what the breeders put in front of them, and breeders are presumably breeding to improve the breed, not breeding what will win. It's kind of a vicious circle with both breeders and judges bearing equal responsibility IMO.

So unless you are a Persian breeder actively working to produce typey cats with healthy faces, or a judge who is in a position to determine what is winning then you really have no chance of influencing the direction conformation is taking.

I have to say though, that cats have been having their conformation manipulated by humans for what- maybe a couple of hundred years? Dogs are much worse because humans have been designing them for much longer than that- we've had longer to screw them up. And the earliest creature gotten hold of and changed for aesthetic reasons- the lowly Goldfish, selectively bred since the B.C's has it the worst of all. They've been contorted into monstrosities.

We seem determined to remake animals into forms that we find pleasing while giving only lip service to what is good for the species in question. It is not too late for the Persians by any means, but some of the breeders I have met make me really fear for them.
post #36 of 43
Wellington,

Your kitties are absolutly GORGEOUS! They are not extreme but to the standard. While persians/exotics are not my "cup of tea" I do admire an excellant example of any of the breeds - your are one of them. Be proud of what you have bred/shown
post #37 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by WellingtonCats
Honestly that Persian is what we strive for and I hate people telling me that Persians who are being bred to the standard and wrong blah blah blah...
Those aren't very extreme, and still hold close enough to the natural look of feline faces to not have problems.

I have, however seen very extreme faces where the nose was almost above the eyes, and sunken in way more than those noses. In my opinion, there is no way on Earth those couldn't have huge sinus/breathing issues.
post #38 of 43
I don't know anything about the different cat associations but there is a Traditional Cat Association. At one time I was thinking about getting a Siamese but I didn't want a real extreme one. They list breeders for the traditional cats including the doll faced Persians. They list two different kinds of Siamese, the Applehead and a Classic. The classic is between the Applehead and the very extreme ones that are favored by judges now.
post #39 of 43
Wellington--- your cats are GEORGOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I myself prefer the smaller noses but not the extreme ones that they look like they have NO nose. I have a "pet quality" persian and to me he has a BIG nose. LOL he doesn't have the indent between his eyes like he should or the "bump" for his forhead as he should (sorry been so long since we bred himmies that I can't remember the "true" word for those 2 things. LOL). but I love him anyways. He is my baby.
post #40 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn
Wellington, if you were referring to my post, them I apologize. I wasn't making statements of any kind. I had heard some things mentioned and was asking questions about it.

I'm sure not all breeders are sacrificing the cats health for extreme features. But there is enough talk to make me think that SOME are. If there are, what if anything can or should be done about it?
Hi there

No need to apoligise. Of course some breeders are, but they are doing so in all breeds and I'm not sure exactly how they can be stopped but they do need to be. An over extreme cat isn't desirable and I can't personally think of one breeder in the world who is breeding them to the extreme.
post #41 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by junior67
Wellington--- your cats are GEORGOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I myself prefer the smaller noses but not the extreme ones that they look like they have NO nose. I have a "pet quality" persian and to me he has a BIG nose. LOL he doesn't have the indent between his eyes like he should or the "bump" for his forhead as he should (sorry been so long since we bred himmies that I can't remember the "true" word for those 2 things. LOL). but I love him anyways. He is my baby.
Thank you. I like to think they are too - infact I know they are!

Oh yeah the big nosed ones are still beautiful and in some litters you get more of them then snub nosed ones but that's ok they are normally the best!
post #42 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
Wellington,

Your kitties are absolutly GORGEOUS! They are not extreme but to the standard. While persians/exotics are not my "cup of tea" I do admire an excellant example of any of the breeds - your are one of them. Be proud of what you have bred/shown
Thank you. That means a lot to me coming from you because I know how experienced you are in the cat world.

I'm so very proud of my cats and what they and I have achieved in the Persian standard.
post #43 of 43
I really do hope I've helped people see that not all Persians have health problems and there are indeed a lot of responsible breeders out there working hard to breed healthy cats and keep to the standard at the same time.

I'll show you a couple more pictures

This is a cream bicolour I bred who is a multi best in show winner and he's got really excellent type - I'll show you two views of him

Him straight on - you can see his nose fits nicely between his eyes



A view on him looking down - see his nose looks longer in this picture



Friends (funny looking kitten )



Dance





cream baby



Dynamite

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