Should a cat's teeth be cleaned?

Originally Posted by Feline_friend

Gayef, you sound knowledgeable about this matter. Are you a DVM or vet tech? I'm just wondering where you came by this information.

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*smile* After caring for Siamese cats for nearly all of my going-on 47 years and now actively participating in an Old-Style Siamese Breed Preservation program, I have learned more than just a small bit about what genetic issues the breed is predisposed to -- chronic gingivitis and stomatitis are among those issues. But, no, I am not a DVM nor am I a vet tech.

I don't mean to be temerarious, it's just that I distrust doctors. It's not that I think all DVMs are just out to make a buck and only make a buck. But I do believe they are subject to self-deception like everyone else, especially where it might lead to higher income.

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Then we would be "kindred souls" in our distrust. I don't believe that ~all~ medical and/or veterinary health care professionals are in it to make money and only to make money either. But again, I do have first-hand, personal experience with a couple who are indeed that way. And then of course, since it is currently "politically incorrect" to support breeding efforts, it is doubly hard for me to find a vet willing to work with 1) a breeder and 2) someone usually not willing to take what they say to me as gospel. I am a researcher, first and foremost. I am of the firm opinion that knowledge is amunition when fighting disease, any disease. The more we know about it, how it works, what feeds it, what it's weaknesses and strengths are -- the better armed we are to fight it or even prevent it completely.

Case in point: the very common practice of over vaccination. I believe this is simply a "cash-cow" for veterinarians ...

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The currently-accepted vaccine protocol is something I have been struggling with for a while now. However, the problem I have had is that unless you are willing to be on board with their protocol, a lot of vets will not treat your animals. My case in point ... my female, Lexus began her vaccines for Rhinotraceitis, Calici Virus and Panelukopenia at her breeder's home when she was 6 weeks old. She received the second shot in that series, again, at her breeder's home at 9 weeks. I received a document from her breeder with the dates, the dosages, the manufacturer, the lot identification numbers and a notarized affirmation from the breeder's vet that the breeder was competant in the administration of sub-q vaccines in kittens. A certified copy of this document went to my vet along with Lexus on her first vet visit upon coming to live with me. He refused to accept it and demanded that I immediately begin the protocol again, which would, of course, result in Lexus receiving a full TWO extra and IMO, totally unnecessary vaccines! Needless to say, Lex went immediately back into my carrier and we promptly left, never to return.

... and most if not all instances of "booster" vaccinations (those following the cat's first vaccine) are not going to increase the cat's longevity, but decrease it. As you may know, vaccinations have been linked to immunological problems.

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Let us not forget that vaccines have also been linked to the onset of cancerous tumors at the injection site. However, more study on this is needed because as they are continuing to unravel the mysteries of feline genetics, we have learned that cats can carry an abnormality on certain a certain locus. Injecting the cats carrying this abnormal onco-gene, even with nothing more than sterile saline has caused a tumor to appear.

More info may be found on the web, or in Dr. Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats.

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While I have a deep respect for Dr. Pitcairn, I find that a lot of this approach falls short when placed in the hands of novices in a home environment.

I would like to point out that tarter build up and tooth decay are two entirely different things. Cats don't eat sweets and therefore they don't get cavities like we do but they are prone to tarter build up which leads to gingivitis which leads to periodontal disease which leads to tooth loss and there is a strong belief in veterinary medicine that the bacteria in the mouth that comes from all this can enter the blood stream and affect the heart and kidneys and other organs. This can also happen to us even if we don't eat any sugar. A rodent made up of raw flesh, bone and skin and fur(which acts like a wiping cloth) is nature's tooth brush. We don't provide that benefit with commercial cat food.

Understandably there are many cat owners, especially the more old fashioned ones who grew up during a time when dental care for cats and dogs was non-existant, don't take care of their pets teeth. My grandparents and my aunt never did it and they loved their cats very much and they lived long lives. Whether or not the cats suffered from dental problems, my grandparents and aunt did not know. The quality of life is just as important as the quantity of life. When some of their cats did have severe mouth pain, they got treated, but it was after dental disease had built up to the severe stage and then the cats had their teeth pulled and then as the old folks put it, they were "fine." But if there wasn't any obviously noticeable symptoms they never gave it any thought. That's the old way and I don't doubt that these older generations loved their cats. I know they loved them. They were very well loved, and spoiled and pampered like a cat should be but the old way. And understandably they find this new idea of pets needing dental care too to be quite strange and the old folks don't believe in it. It's understandable. This is the reason I have to keep getting my cats teeth cleaned when necessary a big secret or they might just think I'm cruel for exposing my cats to the horrors of veterinary torture. But this is not how I see it.

Keeping up to date with the times makes us more knowledgeable. Veterinary medicine is relatively new. It started with farm animals and gradually included our beloved cats and dogs. In the old days cats were outside living rodent killers rather than the beloved family members they are today. Veterinarians have expanded their knowledge of animal medicine greatly in recent years. The medical science of what it takes to keep our beloved furry family members healthy has greatly expanded and improved. And when our pets health is at stake no matter how minor or severe, ranging from gingivitis to kidney disease, it's worth taking into consideration that we should not deny or ignore all this cumulative scientifically proven, well researched information. Our pets are not outside killing rodents and living relatively short lives so yes, they need dental care too. Understandably it's not natural for a cat to accept a toothbrush into his/her mouth, especially without being trained to accept it in kittenhood. Understandably it's quite expensive for us and stressful for the animal to subject them to anesthesia for this procedure. So I weigh the pros and cons together to find a happy medium and that is to only get dental cleanings when absolutely necessary, when the tarter has significantly and greatly built up in my cats mouths. If you're following Dr Pitcarin, I believe he advocates feeding raw and it's been said that many cats on raw meat diets rarely, if ever need their teeth cleaned because of the natural relationship to their natural diet. But I wouldn't rule it out completely. Still check on the health of your cat's mouth from time to time.

I understand your concerns about vaccinations. My cats are passed due for vaccines and I have chosen not to vaccinate them very often because of the fact that they live indoors and are not exposed to the common diseases they can catch outdoors. My vet is very understanding about this as well. But a free roaming indoor/outdoor cat is exposed to many possible diseases and infections.

This is the cat who has a dental cleaning appointment this coming Monday morning.

If your unsure of what your vet is suggesting as to how right it is get a second opionion... I did and got told the complete opposite so I got a third and the 2nd and third said my dog didnt need dental care ( pro cleaning ) yet but that my cat did ....

I asked my vet at the last check up if Sebastian needed his teeth cleaned and he said no they looked fine. But if he did say they needed to be cleaned I would get them cleaned to avoid more expensive problems in the long run. Although growing up mymom never had any of our dozens of cats teeth cleaned...but they were also indoor/outdoor cats and probably ate a lot of wild life etc. But most lived long lives. Everyone has their own opinions on this I suppose.Crystal

Cats rarely get cavities, but they can get them if you ignore their teeth. They are more prone to tartar build up and gum disease. Bacteria and food build along the gumline forming plaque. If you don't remove the plaque it'll turn into calculus, or tartar. Tartar irritates the gums and causes gingivitis. If you don't remove the tartar it will continue to build under the gums. It starts forming pockets with allow the bacteria to grow, this is called "Periodontal Disease". As the bacteria starts growing more and more the bacteria may enter the blood stream, this can effect the heart, liver, and kidneys.

For those of you who can't brush your cat's teeth [which is something you should practice early in life with them] you can buy dental wax and put that on their teeth it helps keep stuff from sticking to the teeth.

I find the only thing difficult about brushing my cat's teeth is finding time. He likes the toothpaste okay [it's chicken flavored] I just scruff him and take a child's tooth brush and go at it. There's also some treats made by CET that clean their teeth. I use the dog version on my dogs and it keeps their teeth nice and clean.

Most cats do fine without getting their teeth cleaned routinely, if ever. My neighbor's give their pets the minimum care possible, and yes all their animals die slow horrible deaths, but they live forever. Older cats are the most easily effected by dirty teeth. However, based on the diets our cats have, how they are made genetically, etc. It is important to follow your vets advice. The reason they want you to get his teeth cleaned is so he doesn't get a tooth ache. Ignoring the plaque in his mouth will get him to that point. Why cause pain later when you can prevent it now?

I give my cats the CET chews. They're great! But expensive. Where do I find dental wax? What does it look like and how would I apply it? Both of my cats fight having their mouth probed by human fingers.

Where do I find dental wax? What does it look like and how would I apply it? Both of my cats fight having their mouth probed by human fingers.

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Hahaha Napolean doesn't much like me digging around there either

http://entirelypets.stores.yahoo.net/oravet.html#

Oravet is something we carry and it has an applicator that is nice because they can bite that and not your finger, but it's on the spendy side.

You'd have to check with your vet but you might be able to use just a regular dental wax. I know the stuff we use in back for prophy's is different than the oravet, I think it's just a plain soft wax.

Okay, thanks everyone for your feedback. I'm now convinced my cat's teeth should be cleaned. I've checked my two best cat-care books, and both recommend professional dental care. Dr. Pitcairn thinks that commercial cat foods cause a lot of periodontal problems in cats. But I've already tried making one of his raw-chicken recipes for my two cats and neither of them would eat one bite. That soured me on the whole raw-food deal. You can't imagine how much time I spent putting that one recipe together, getting weird ingredients to add to it like Taurine and Calcium gluconate. One of my books suggested that in some cases vets can just scrape off the calculus in the office without anaesthesia. Presumably, antibiotics would be necessary (before and after) even in that case. It would sure be a lot simpler if they could do it that way, although perhaps it's too stressful for the cat, without anaesthesia.

Geoff

Yeah, they can do it without anesthesia, but not on a cat. The cat would have to be EXTREMELY willing to let someone hold it down, open its mouth and mess with its teeth. I could see someone doing it to a dog who has been handled extensively, a coworker of mine can do it to her dog's teeth, but I think it really depends on how bad the teeth are and the temperment of the animal.

I do agree... doing it without anesthesia would be much, much easier and less expensive if it wasn't so stressful on the animal.

Our kitties breath should smell healthy.
I am a firm believer in professional dental care for our cats.
My kitties teeth are checked annually and deep cleaned when necessary.
The advantages to their health far outweigh any anesthesia risk to a healthy cat.

*goes to clean Zissou's teeth*

Hahahaha this is kind of funny. I just started brushing Napolean's teeth regularly because I noticed they were getting kind of gross[bad mom]... since I introduced him to the toothpaste and let him eat some of it he's like... biting the tooth brush. He's not doing it aggressively but trying to eat the toothpaste LOL It's kind of funny!

You have already received quite a few great replies, but here's my take on dental care.

It is extremely important for the health of your cat. In an ideal world, we would perform dental cleanings on cats as a preventative treatment before dental problems begin. By age 3, over 70% of cats already have a form of dental disease.

A majority of problems cannot be detected until the cat is anesthetized. The most common and painful dental problem in cats are called FORL's and are similar to cavities in humans, but the cause is not known. They are also quite common in cats over 5 years of age. These can also be covered up by tartar and go unnoticed, even by the vet or RVT. I have performed many, many dental cleanings and found quite deep and painful FORL's.

Yes, a dental is definitely not cheap, but it can also not be done without anesthesia. We charge $91.00 for the anesthesia and the cleaning. A dental from start to finish takes an average of an hour (and two staff members). It also includes a thorough exam of the mouth/throat by an RVT and a DVM, hand scaling, ultrasonic scaling, charting, rinsing, polishing, sealant application, and anesthetic and recovery monitoring.

Home care is also extremely important. Brushing is the best and cats that are slowly introduced to it do extremely well with it. You also do not have to open the cats mouth to do the inside of the teeth, only the outside needs to be done.

The fact that a cat seems to be sore when eating is definitely a sign of dental disease.

Hope this helps!

Both Rusty and Smithers have dentals each year. Smithers is approx. 11 years old and has only 4 teeth left; Rusty is about 8 yrs. old and has about 11 teeth left. Both have suffered from gum disease which left untreated can cause more serious health problems. The first time their fur started smelling badly, I knew there was a problem. They had gum infections and of course, as they groomed themselves, the the bacteria in their saliva made their coats stink.

I now do the best I can to brush their teeth as well as my 2 yr. old cat Stella's. It's definitely not easy but I'm trying to avoid any more problems.

sitting here ...wondering how i missed all this...i had no idea i had to brush remy's teeth...lookin over at *that cat* thinking he is reading over my shoulder ....this should be really interesting. I'll let you know how it goes *g

Originally Posted by reddicequeen

sitting here ...wondering how i missed all this...i had no idea i had to brush remy's teeth...lookin over at *that cat* thinking he is reading over my shoulder ....this should be really interesting. I'll let you know how it goes *g

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If you haven't brushed her teeth before, you may want to try and catch her when she's sleepy. It's easier then

Originally Posted by PurrPaws

If you haven't brushed her teeth before, you may want to try and catch her when she's sleepy. It's easier then

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*grin* That works with clipping claws too!

Originally Posted by Plebayo

Hahaha Napolean doesn't much like me digging around there either

http://entirelypets.stores.yahoo.net/oravet.html#

Oravet is something we carry and it has an applicator that is nice because they can bite that and not your finger, but it's on the spendy side.

You'd have to check with your vet but you might be able to use just a regular dental wax. I know the stuff we use in back for prophy's is different than the oravet, I think it's just a plain soft wax.

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Hi Plebayo. Spotty just had his teeth cleaned on Monday July 3rd and it turns out the All Care Cat Hospital where I take my cats now carries the oravet and my vet gave me a sample of it. I'm supposed to start using it in 2 weeks. It's going to be a challenge for me, even to apply this once a week because neither of my cats tolerate me trying to probe into their mouths. But I think it will be worth it if I can get Spotty to accept it. Spotty has been through 2 dental cleanings in less than 3 years. And with multiple cats it's tough because the anesthesia changes the smell of the cat. Rosie, my other cat did not recognize Spotty and she was hissing and growling and I had to keept Spotty isolated from her. I put him in my bedroom. gave small frequent meals, fresh water and his litter box. Spotty's behavior was strange too as he was recovering from being drugged. At first he was ok but as soon as I left the room and came back a few minutes later, he started hissing and growling at me and my boyfriend as if he didn't recognize us. So I left him alone for a while and then he was meowing constantly so I went back to visit him and he was being very affectionate but he would also occasionally growl and hiss at us like he didn't know whether to love us or hate us. Anesthesia has a very big, stressful effect on cats. I never look forward to these dental cleanings. Rosie is still hissing at Spotty but it's starting to lessen and I predict by tomorrow or the day after things will be back to normal. But for those of you who have never had your cats teeth cleaned this is something you can expect. So it's worth it to do dental care at home if possible to lengthen time between those dreadful dental cleanings. Important as they are, they're a real drag. $260.00 is what I had to pay for this too. Plebayo if you can give me any advice on how to get my cats to accept me applying this product which I have to start on Spotty in two weeks and I should probably start on Rosie too although she has good genetics and doesn't develp tarter as rapidly, please tell me. I welcome any suggestions. Thanks.

Originally Posted by Feline_friend

I have two cats, Cloud & Salem, 10 and 9, respectively. Cloud has CRF, Salem is healthy. I did get Cloud's teeth cleaned professionally about five years ago. I remember they said it would cost $100 and it ended up costing $200. I ended up feeling ripped off, and wondered whether it was just a stupid waste of time and money.

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The type of anthesia the vet uses would make a difference in the price.

Plebayo if you can give me any advice on how to get my cats to accept me applying this product which I have to start on Spotty in two weeks and I should probably start on Rosie too although she has good genetics and doesn't develp tarter as rapidly, please tell me. I welcome any suggestions. Thanks.

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Yay for teeth cleanings! Yeah $260 is annoying... for that price your cat should be getting some bling in there or something!

I don't know that you can get them to accept it, but you might be able to get them to tolerate it. I would use the wax on a swab [which the oravet has one I believe] I would scruff your cat, or hold their mouth with your thumb and index finger[like hold their lips and pull their mouth up] and just try to apply is at best as you can. My cat does get wiggly when I hold his mouth open, but I just hold him, and keep being persistant about it. He will sit still long enough for me to quickly go over his teeth, sometimes I have to regrab him if he moves.

One thing you might do is add the wax, and then give them a treat afterwards. I don't know if that defeats the purpose or not, but it would give them something pleasant to think about. If they have a favorite toy, playing with the toy afterward, that sort of thing.

I think once you start doing it they'll probably tolerate it more. I'd just do it however you can to get it done, if someone needs to help hold, by all means do it. But I think with enough routine your cats will at least learn that no matter what they do they HAVE to do this and know that it will be done eventually.