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Tough going with stray

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Hello. I am new to this forum. I am a cat lover- presently in Istanbul, Turkey. I have several home-raised cats staying with family back in Virginia but there is an abundance of feral and street cats here and I have just taken in a cat this past Sunday and she is pregnanat. I am guesing she is about 2 years old.

I have to say first, the vet situation here is very bad. Before I took in this cat, I went to a few vets in this area and they could not have been any less interested in giving me advice. My friend here took his own healthy and home-raised cat to a vet last year and the cat ended up dying (he was just 4 years old and never had any health problems). Having 5 spayed female cats, I completely understand the importance of spaying cats, having their shots, etc.... Right now what I need is not a lecture, just some advice.

So I got the cat into the cat carrier on Sunday. The cat defecated in the cat carrier on the way home, it was not solid but not runny. I started giving her Science Diet canned food and then Sunday night she had 2 solid poops.

Monday I put a flea collar on her, would love to give her a well-needed bath but don't want to risk injury to her or myself. Monday her poops were normal until late night when she had 2 runny (but not watery) poops.

Tuesday her poops were soft but not runny.

Wednesday I started her on kitten food and her poops were nearly solid but very early this morning she had very runny poops about every 20 minutes for a few hours.

She is not crying and otherwise does not appear sick. Of course she is pregnant so she is rather well-mannered and calm. I am pretty sure she was once an indoor cat that was put-out once she went into her first heat cycle. (Very comon here, sadly.) I have contacted several more vets who are all disinterested in giving advice. (They are not even saying to bring her in when I ask if I should.)

I just want to know, is this a cleaning-out thing she is experiencing with the runny poops? is this common for pregnant cats? is the flea collar safe? would Frontline be safe (I have read to give as few drugs as possible to pregnant cats) for her?

I don't have her wandering around inside the place where I am staying, I have her in a huge crate and she is coming out and using the litter box and then she is jumping back in the crate. I am walking her around and then she is content on lazying around in the crate. (The crate is bigger than the cages you see at the vet.)

As for long-term plans, me and my friends will see her through her pregnancy and at 8 weeks try and get homes for the kittens and then try and get the cat spayed. I am going to call a few more vets today but thought I'd see if anyone here has any advice in the meantime.

Thanks very much.

Dana
post #2 of 21
I do have a weak memory the pregnant shecats do usually have a little looser fecalies than otherwise.
Hope somebody can confirm - or defintely deny. - I shall ask on my own forum too.

Frontline is wellknown, it should be OK, otherwise it would be known pregnant cant have it.

One more thing. 8 weeks eh? try wait to 10 weeks, better for the smalls.
But it is perhaps easier to find them homes when they young, so I understand 8 weeks.

EDIT. how is it with deworming? You must expect worms in a stray. Worms tend to give loose poops.
Is she dewormed?? Are there any worms visible?


Edit 2. A home remedy for earmites is 2-3 drops of oil, olive-oil feks, in each ear. Rub it a little around. The mites drowns/suffocates in the oil.
Not dangerously and often quite effective. There are veterinarinans who recommend it.
post #3 of 21
I think it is great you brought in this cat i have resently brought in a stray mum and her 8 week old kitten and she is pregnant again, so i know how you fell at the moment there is so many things i dont know and need to find out.

I dont think frontline is safe to use at all it does say on the pack not to be used on pregnant cats i think!!



Late pregnancy and nursing vastly increase the nutritional needs of cats. Nursing mothers require even more nutrients than growing cats. The first six weeks of pregnancy the mother should not eat more than its usual pre-pregnancy amount. But starting at the sixth week the cat’s weight and appetite should begin to increase. Start to put down twenty-five percent more food. I like to switch the mother over to a diet designed for kittens and growing cats at this time but she should do well on any high-quality cat chow that is marketed for all life stages. Because the kittens are pressing against her internal organs the mother may not be able to eat as much at one sitting as before her pregnancy. Feed her several small meals instead of one or two large ones or better still, keep her food out at all times. Be sure plenty of clean water is available at all times. There is no need to give a vitamin or mineral supplement. If the cat begins to loose weight despite being offered the added food, supplement her diet with canned cat food. As pregnancy progresses the expectant mother will eat more and more. Give her all that she desires unless she has a tendency to get fat as some cats do. There is no need for a vitamin supplement if name brand foods are fed.

The diahrrea in the cat this could be a sign of roundworm and can pass on to the kittens and cause them to be sickly when born, or she could pass on coccadia an intestinal parasite.


someone with more experince should be along shortly so correct me if i have said anything wrong im new to this pregnant cat thing and just writting what i have heard.

YOUR CAT MAY NEED A VET ASAP!! How bad is her poo is it really runny???

what if she has complications during labour what vet are you going to go to then? if they are all so bad.


good luck
post #4 of 21
The first who answered, an experienced and kind breeder, did say: later in the pregnancy the poops is usually a little looser. But not in the early pregnancy.
post #5 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanZ
The first who answered, an experienced and kind breeder, did say: later in the pregnancy the poops is usually a little looser. But not in the early pregnancy.
i didnt read your post until after i had posted, so i wasnt saying you were not experinced i was saying i was inexperienced, i was still writting when you posted your message so please do not jump down my throat.
post #6 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by louisa
i didnt read your post until after i had posted, so i wasnt saying you were not experinced i was saying i was inexperienced, i was still writting when you posted your message so please do not jump down my throat.

Im was not talking about you, I was referring the first person who answered my question on my Swedish forum.
I too saw your letter after I send my letter.
post #7 of 21
sorry for my mistake i appologise
post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
I want to thank you for your timely responses.

I am certain she does have worms (today has ben a doozy!) and am seeking a vet who can take a further look and prescribe Drontal® for her. One of the neighbors who lives where I found this cat informed me when I was trying to get her, that the cat had been pregnant a few months ago but never saw kittens and never went a day without seeing her and figures the litter died. My fear is that her worms were so bad at that time that the kittens did not make it and I'd hate to see that being the end result when she delivers. Is this common with street cats?

From previous experience, I am thinking the cat is probably about 2 weeks away from delivery. Since I have only had her since Sunday, I have been trying to give her 4 or 5 small meals each day. I am not sure what her usual pre-pregnancy food intake was but she eats every time I present food to her but she does not usually eat all of what I give her. Are the worms affecting how much benefit she gets from eating?

As for "what if she has complications during labour what vet are you going to go to then?" When I find a vet who can help me with the worms, that will be the vet I will call on if she has labour problems.

I did some internet research and the Frontline is OK for pregnant and nursing cats.

Yes, we only plan to keep the kittens for 8 weeks, because a lot of people here don't want cats as it is, so beter the chance of finding homes when they are so young. I don't know if any of you have ever been to Istanbul but the stray and feral cat situation is AWFUL! So sad. I have some photos of some of the street animals (http://public.fotki.com/DanaToGo/turkey/street_animals/) but have no photos of the worst horrors I have seen of the situation here. The cat I have taken in is actually in several of these photos, the orange cat is #2 and #34.

I'll keep you posted on the situation. Your help and advice is gratefully appreciated.

Dana
post #9 of 21
yes i have visited istanbal and some sights i saw brought me to tears a female cat with her litter dead being eating by another kitten about 10-12 weeks old was the worst and where ever you went you had a 98% chance of seeing a stray cat / dog or feral. At least you are trying to help!!!

Im not to sure but some types of worms can affect the nutrition the cat gets from it's food, but dont take my word for it as im not sure!


And yes it is very common with street cats, they dont get the care the need and catch all sorts of things from other cats and animals when on the street. it's sad but this is the sort of thing that happens if there were more people like us on the forums then i dont think this would be as much of a problem, good luck with your cat mine has 3 weeks to go till she drops!! ( im more nervous than her, nesting, eating more ect lol)
post #10 of 21
do you need prescription for drontal in Turkey? In Sweden you can buy them in the apothek. (medical-drug-store). It is one of the best ones. a good allround if I dont remember wrong.

a little word of warning. Some of the drugs are for dogs only, some are for both, some are for cats. Use NEVER medicines for dogs on cats - they are often harmful for cats...
So you must always look out after this.
post #11 of 21
I was checking to see if Turkey had any TNR groups that are listed in Alley Cat Allies..but I'm not finding one:

http://www.alleycat.org/orgs.html

What you may want to do is to try to find out if there are any animal shelters or rescues that you can work with to find a vet.

Katie
post #12 of 21
Hello , and welcome. I do sympathise with all you say, as we have a very similar situation in Sarajevo, and I have also seen the problems in Istanbul myself. I had a great problem finding vets here who would take cats seriously, and no one has house cats unless they are purebred - often Persians. I would recommend you try and get Frontline for her rather than the flea collar, which could be dangerous - they cause all sorts of problems.

Obviously you need a vet first, and I hope you find one quickly. If you really can't get one to work with you then I would go against all normal advice and get her some Bob Martins worming tablets - they are available all over the region, and use those. Not ideal, but better than nothing. I and my vet here think it is the safest commercial brand. She should be wormed before the kittens come, to get her into the best health possible. If you can't find any, then PM me and I will send you some tablets from my vet. But you will need a vet to help if necessary with the kittens, and give shots etc.

I feel for you - I had the same problem here, and I still feel guilty when I look at my five healthy rescue cats, whom I took off the streets, and yet I can't do anything for the thousands still out there.

Good luck
post #13 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by jennyranson

I feel for you - I had the same problem here, and I still feel guilty when I look at my five healthy rescue cats, whom I took off the streets, and yet I can't do anything for the thousands still out there.
Dont feel quilty. You did what you could, it isnt your fault the situation is as it is. Did you see Schindlers list? About the man who saved 1000 jews from gas chambers? In the almost last scene he is despairing: 1000 lives. But it could have been more! This gold watch. 5, perhaps 10. This piece of jewellery. 2, perhaps even 5. This car,20.
Perhaps. But the look of richness, of possession was necessary for him to save those who he did save...
Nobody can help all, but all can help somebody.


Bob Martin? Interesting. I see it is a spot on, especielly god for tapeworms.
There is also another good spot on, taking almost all parasites and worms, but NOT tapeworms. Best is perhaps to combine.
I dont remember the brand as now, I shall seek and return.

Edit: This allround spot on, taking mites, fleas, most worms save tapeworms is Stronghold (in some countries named Revolution).

Spot on means you have one drop on the neck. Done.
The cat shouldnt preferably lick her or wash her in the neck some half hour / one our, but that is all.
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your repies again and to Jenny for the offer to send the Bob Martins worming tablets. Thankfully I have found a vet! I am not sure why, but he is not giving the Drontal (maybe because that was my idea and not his ,) probably could not care to explain himself well because of the language barrier. He is also giving some liquid called Kontil. I administered the Frontline yesterday, I wish I could give her a bath (is that safe for pregnany cats?) and am fearful of her ingesting any dead fleas. Another problem I am having is that she is not much interested in drinking water. Is this because she knows that if she drinks it she will have even worse intestinal distress? or perhaps she is having a urinary problem or kidney infection? The vet said to let him know if she still seems disinterested after a few days. I am really worried about that.

Dana
post #15 of 21
Drinkink depends much in what she is eating. If it is wet food, say canned wet food she dont need to drink much. If it is mostly dry food - she must drink much, about 60 milliliters / kilo. Ie a grown up cat about 250 ml a day.

With other foods something inbetween.

A pregnant or mommacat probably somewhat more than non pregnant.

If you are worried for intestinal problems;

do mix 1 soup spoon of dextrose, 1 teaspoon of kichensalt. Cook it up in 1 litre water. Let it be room-tempered.
- This is a simple variation of Pedialyte. Good for cats and for humans when having diarreas or vomiting-sick.

If you dont have dextrose is honey OK. Sugar does work well for humans, but not so good for cats. But you can use sugar too in a emergency.

If she dont has enough with water you must consider to force feed her.

How? Perhaps she accepts to drink from a spoon. If not;

Do you have a syringe of any sort? Without needle of course. Or a eyedropper is good. Otherwise a drinking straw is OK.
Carefully, in the corner of the mouth across, NOT straight in the neck.

It is easiest if one holds, one forcefeeds.


Bath? It isnt harmful as such, but may be stressful as she dont know you and dont trust you 100%.
You can try to take of the worst with a wet cloth??
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
I have found a reluctant vet and she took the de-worming pill and has been doing well since, not a sign of worms now and she has not had any more loose stools.

She is still not interested in drinking water, I have been adding some water to her wet food and not giving her much of the dry stuff. Her appetite has realy soared in the past 2 days.

I have seen some gestation charts and am really wishing I knew just how pregnant she is. My friend and I spotted her having sex on 15 May (we just happened to be looking out from 4th floor balcony and saw), which would make her due date about 19 July, but could it be possible she was already pregnant at that time? Her belly is getting big big and I feel the babies fairly easily. She is sleeping a lot, not very active (probably a week and a half of being off the streets has been a big relief?) but very sweet and cooperative and looks to be more attentive to her grooming.







I am in a very small apartment and there are not too many places for her to hide. I prepared a kittening box for her and she has not shown any interest in it at all, not even a sniff! She has gone under the bed a few times but has one chair she hangs out under most of the time.

Any more advice? I'm all ears! Thanks somuch.
post #17 of 21
Yes, she could have had pregnancy already.

It DOES happens sometimes, not often but happens, the shecat having two entirely different litters at the same time. The funny thing is it often goes well.
She gives birth to one small litter, about three weeks later next litter...

As I understand, one of my neighbours has a little tomcat (spayed two days ago) from such a double litter...


This means a pregnant shecat may very well have sex - perhaps without getting this extra pregnancy.

Besides, a very dominant tomcat may force himself on almost any female, either she is prepared or not...
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by dana_ist

I am in a very small apartment and there are not too many places for her to hide. I prepared a kittening box for her and she has not shown any interest in it at all, not even a sniff! She has gone under the bed a few times but has one chair she hangs out under most of the time.

Any more advice? I'm all ears! Thanks somuch.
Dana...sounds like things are going well. Chances are she will choose her birthing location on her own and won't choose the birthing box until it is closer to the time of delivery AND you have confined her to a room where the birthing box is one of her only options. I highly recommend the bathroom as it is easier to clean tile than carpet. She probably is getting enough water in her moist food...you can also provide her with some KMR or goats milk.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Katie
post #19 of 21
Hi...my heart just breaks knowing about the fate of cats in so many parts of the world. In my travels to Cyprus and China, that was the hardest thing for me to see. That is one lucky kitty and her kittens also. She looks like a love!
I won't repeat the other great advice you've recieved, but here's my 2 cents on other things that might help--
1) in my experience with PG mom-cats, they seem to not drink much water. I do make "cat soup" by adding water to wet food until it's soupy. That seems to supplement their water intake. If you start seeing loose stools (if she's got solid stools), then that may be too much. Also, I don't know if you can find or make one--but cats seem to love to drink from fountains--the dripping water is attractive for some reason.

2) Have you heard of WSPA? World Society for the Protection of Animals. They may be able to assist--or if you are from the states, perhaps contacting either the HSUS or ASPCA and explaining your need for a good vet and possibly help placing the kittens--they might have contacts in Turkey.
I found these societies at the WSPA website. While their focus may not be exactly what you need, perhaps they can refer you?
http://ww2.wspa-international.org/ab...ers/Turkey.htm

Best of luck to you and the kitty. One step at a time is my motto...focus on the good you are doing with her.
post #20 of 21
If you haven't already found it, this thread in the Pregnant Cats and Kitten Care forum of TCS looks like it will have some very useful information for you:

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74659

I've never had to deal with a pregnant rescue, and I just wanted to say THANK YOU for being so wonderful to help this kitty! Also, as you are in Turky and the attitudes are so different there, I doubt very much you'd be able to find "KMR" kitten replacement milk. However, as Katie pointed out, Goats milk is a really good alternative - and I think that may be easy for you to find. It may help boost her intake of fluid - though by just adding a little water to her wet food she is probably getting enough fluids.

Sorry I don't actually have any info for you. But you're doing such a wonderful thing! I'm sending lots of "go smoothly" vibes - and lots of hugs.

((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Laurie
post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 
We have babies! Born Saturday.

Mom cat and 6 babies are all doing well!








I can't thank you enough for your help and advice!

Dana
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