Is it better mentally for cats to have access to the outside?

junior67

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they also make a fence (wire type) that goes along the top of your fence and it curves inward so the cats can't get over it. then just put some chicken wire on the other part so they can't fit through there. I can try to find the other part that curves at the top so cats can't jump over the fence if you need it.
 

misty8723

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Originally Posted by urbantigers

If you keep a cat inside you are responsible for providing the physical and mental stimulation they would otherwise find outside so it's important to provide lots of opportunities for play and exercise. Provided you do that, I think cats can be happy indoors.
Any ideas on how to do that when you're cat is a total dude and get bored very quickly with the same old. I'm just not that imaginative, I guess. Also, when you're limited in how much you can play interactively because of work, other commitments, and just plain exhaustion. I really want my little guy to be happy.
 

zissou'smom

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Being bored is better than being hit by a car, infected with FeLV, or abused by strangers, IMO. Cats who have always been inside are totally well-adjusted to it, and cats that haven't can learn if you're willing.
 

catsallover

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I guess it just depends on your cat and how much risk you can tolerate
. I have tried a couple of times to adjust 2 of them to indoor- everybody was unhappy".
, some of us were downright nutso
. Did the cat tree (a big one I built!), the whole nine yards. Nope, no go. She's a hunter, she's 12 yrs old now, she's healthy, she's fixed, she gets her FeLV shots and she LIVES to bring us "gifts". The other has to go out or she beats up the other cats
. I'd rather they were in, but... Some people just have to jump out of airplanes, race cars, etc.... two of my cats just have to hunt. But they also have to come in at night, if I can help it. (the 12 year old gets a wild hair every once in a while, and wants me to chase her across the yard, and then she gives up. I play
.) They've all been chased across the neighbors' yards to come in for an incoming storm, etc. Now they know that if momma calls in the middle of the day, you'd better come or you're gonna get wet!
 

urbantigers

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Originally Posted by Misty8723

Any ideas on how to do that when you're cat is a total dude and get bored very quickly with the same old. I'm just not that imaginative, I guess. Also, when you're limited in how much you can play interactively because of work, other commitments, and just plain exhaustion. I really want my little guy to be happy.
Try rotating the toys. Take one away for a while then give it back a week or 2 later - it'll be like a completely new toy for them! My cats prefer to play interactive games with me so I find myself on hands and knees playing with them a lot. We've just been having a game of soccer with a scrunched up ball of foil! Great fun was had by all, although Mosi kept fouling Jaffa


This is the best toy I have ever bought.



I bought one when I bought my first 2 cats 9 years ago and still have it. You clip on the feathers etc so when they get chewed and wrecked you can replace them. The original one has a slightly longer handle (and string) than the one in the picture and it's great because I can sit on the sofa watching tv and wave that around at the same time. We play that game most nights around here and it does wonders for tiring out Mosi before bed. I just sit there dragging it up and down the carpet while Mosi races up and down after it until he's panting. Before I got Mosi I used to wrap a treat or piece of meat in paper and tie it to the end - that got Jaffa chasing after it no problem!

Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

Being bored is better than being hit by a car, infected with FeLV, or abused by strangers, IMO.
Not sure I agree with that. While those things are, obviously, unpleasant and we'd all want to avoid our cats experiencing any of them there does come a point where a cat might be better off taking the risk. To take an extreme example, a cat confined to a cage all day would be safe but that, imo, would be downright cruel as it would have no quality of life. Although I'm all for indoor cats I do think it's a case of balancing the benefits and risks of indoor and outdoor life. I think there are lots of risks outdoors but there are also some benefits - outdoor cats encounter a much more varied environment outside and are much less likely to become timid and develop stress related health and behavioural problems. Personally, I think the benefits of keeping them indoors outweigh the risks, and when combined with the fact that cats can be kept perfectly happy indoors it's a simple choice for me. If I felt indoor cats were inevitably bored and under stimulated as a result of being kept indoors then my opinion would be different and I would not keep a cat inside. Because of that I would also not keep a cat at all if I lived in a particularly dangerous place, eg near a busy road. There comes a point where quality of life has to be taken into account - just as we can't keep our kids indoors away from all risks out there, we'd have to do the same with our cats.
 

booktigger

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I have to say that not every cat can be converted to indoor only - I have never managed it with Ginger, and he has actually got depressed when kept in (and it was only for 10 days while he was recuperating). And I also dont fully agree with the fact that a bored cat is better - there are a lot of behavioural issues related to cats being boreed, and with some owners, they will be reasons for getting rid of the cat.
 

zissou'smom

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As I said in my first response..."You are going to find that most American members of this site strongly encourage indoor-only unless you live in a rural area with few cars and of course no dangerous predators. In other countries, the story is a little different"

The OP has a problem with coyotes attacking his cats. Also, the animal abuse problem in America is different, as is the number of cars, and the diseases that your cat could get. Please keep this in mind when weighing the pros/cons of the OP's situation. It is different than yours.
 

moggiegirl

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Cats can definitely live happily indoors as long as they're stimulated and get enough attention. My cats are often happy to snooze in my boyfriend's lap and they appreciate some play time whenever they're in the mood. I live in a pretty small 2 bedroom condo. This is all the outside my cats get. Here is my balcony. I let them out whenever I'm home to watch them. They love to sunbathe.
 

andrewweilin

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Hi there!

Generally I feel that we tend to humanize the feline experience, and I'm sure this topic is brought up more often than not through our own perceptions of their happiness; i.e., It makes sense for us that they would be happier to wander around outdoors since humans can't stay cooped up for extended periods of time.

My cats are indoors, although at certain times during the night they do slip out when I'm not carefully monitoring the door. So far, they only seem to scamper around a little bit to "check things out" and quickly rush back in. Seems like they're happiest when they're home since I think every animal first and foremost craves security.

My advice is to keep them indoors. Remember, YOUR mental health is at stake as well. It can only be deleterious to your well being if you're constantly fearful of your cats' safety, even if it only resides on a sub-conscious level.

Cheers,

Andrew
 

maverick_kitten

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Could you make your own version of a cat fence using fishing netting? That is what some of the cat-proof-fence companies use already and it will be quite a bit cheaper.

I would suggest making your yard as exciting for the cats as possible to give them no reason to stray. try adding a water feature, bushes that attract butterflies, log piles that attract bugs and make good climbing posts and lots and lots of catnip plants!

You can buy wolf or lion poo to put outside your yard to deter coyotes too. Though I have no idea where you would get it from! you could try asking your local zoo if you want to run the risk of them thinking you are a weirdo..
 

pami

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I had a beautiful indoor outdoor calico kitty for 8 years, named Babygirl. that I had found as a stray. She would crawl under the covers at night with me, laying her head on a pillow, while her body was under the blankets. Every morning she would meow to go out and I would let her. Every night at dusk, I would go out and call her and she would always come running. She would go to the street and look left and right before she crossed. And LOVED being outside. Until one day, I went to call her and she never came. I looked for her for a year. That was 5 years ago and I have moved since then, but still go by there to see if I spot her. I failed her as her caregiver because I thought she was happy being outside and it was "natural" for her. I feel so guilty that I did not keep her safe. I have to live with the fact that I will probablly never know what happened to her, if she's alive, if she's happy.

I have since found another stray, who happened to be pregnant. I kept her and her babies. From a very heartbreaking experience with Babygirl along with very bad judgement, I decided to make them all inside only kitties. It took a long time for the mommy kitty to adjust to being inside, well over a year. Many, Many times I had to listen to her cry and help her get her mind off of the situation, by playing with her. Now she is a very happy kitty and NEVER cries to go outside. Shes been inside for a little over 3 1/2 years now.

Although, we all have to make our own decisions for what is best for our babies. Dangers do lurk on the outside. As humans, we are the only ones who can do our best to protect them and keep them out of harms way. Sometimes that does mean being inconvenienced, but its so worth it to know that your babies are inside and safe. And cats can adjust to being inside. Its ok if they cry, you can redirect them. It just takes consistency and patience, but oh so worth it.
 

madpiano

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I think it depends on where you live. In the UK, outdoor access for cats is so natural, that I wasn't allowed to adopt a cat from the shelter or the local Cat Protection League because I couldn't provide 24/7 access to the outdoors.
But then we don't have coyotes here. Just foxes, and they tend to ignore cats.
My cats have access to the good old outdoors every morning and all night and seem to be happy with it. I don't like to leave my Patio Door open all night, but the cats come first, and they much prefer to have night-time access to the outdoors than day-time. I guess thats due to the amount of dogs round here...

I have no idea how people in Coyote-country cope with cats..aren't you scared ??????
 

moggiegirl

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Originally Posted by madpiano

I think it depends on where you live. In the UK, outdoor access for cats is so natural, that I wasn't allowed to adopt a cat from the shelter or the local Cat Protection League because I couldn't provide 24/7 access to the outdoors.
But then we don't have coyotes here. Just foxes, and they tend to ignore cats.
My cats have access to the good old outdoors every morning and all night and seem to be happy with it. I don't like to leave my Patio Door open all night, but the cats come first, and they much prefer to have night-time access to the outdoors than day-time. I guess thats due to the amount of dogs round here...

I have no idea how people in Coyote-country cope with cats..aren't you scared ??????
And in the U.S. humane societies and many shelters don't allow people to adopt cats unless they promise to keep them indoors. Coyotes is one of the many reasons we're urged to keep cats inside. I believe the best way to keep a cat is indoors with access to an outdoor enclosure. I think cats can certainly be kept in pet friendly apartments and/ or condos since most people can't afford a house, especially not here in the expensive city of San Diego. But in this case, let them out on the balcony and supervise them while they're out. Cats can and do jump on railings wander over to neighboring balconies. A chain link fence around the balcony railing will prevent the cat from slipping through the bars of the railing but not from jumping on top of it. So watch them. Some cats can be trained to walk on a leash and harness but my cats won't tolerate it. If I lived in a house with a yard I would want a luxurious outdoor enclosure for them with the best of cat furniture inside of it. With this kind of happy medium, cats can be inside and outside and be safe. My motto is basically, yes, let your cats enjoy the fresh air and sunshine but do not allow them to jump over your fence or stray from your property. We don't let dogs leave our property. Cats shouldn't be allowed to do that either.
 

urbantigers

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Originally Posted by madpiano

I think it depends on where you live. In the UK, outdoor access for cats is so natural, that I wasn't allowed to adopt a cat from the shelter or the local Cat Protection League because I couldn't provide 24/7 access to the outdoors.
same here - cats protection wouldn't let me adopt 2 cats from them 9 years ago as I live in a flat near a busy road. I intended to keep them indoors but they wouldn't let me do that (I eventually got 2 kittens from a shelter that didn't do homechecks or ask too many questions). It is slowly changing though and organisations such as cats protection do now recommend that cats are kept indoors at night for their own safety. A lot more people have indoor cats these days and most breeders of pure bred cats will only home them to indoor homes (or indoor/outdoor enclosure homes).
 
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general zod

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Here's where my wife and I are at with this. Due to the wonderful way HOA's work we really can't put up the cat fencing even though I personally have no issues with spending the money on it. With everything we would need to get to make it work, it would made our yard look more like a prison complex and the HOA simply won't allow it.

Therefore what we are going to do is allow the cats to go outside during the day, and we will lock them inside at night. As i've stated before we have dogs with a dog door and the cats go out the dog door. I don't see a way for us to stop that and the dogs absolutely must have access to the outside during the day. What we are going to do is head to the local animal shelter and rescue another kitty or two and give it a good home. If it wants to wander away and a coyote gets it then at least we can say we gave it an opportunity.

As far as the indoor/outdoor thoughts of the cat goes, I can only go by my experiences. When the cats are out they are playing around in the grass and chasing bugs and just having a great time, and like I said we have a dog door so they are out there completely by choice. It's clear to me cats want access to the outdoors. Hopefully, with this compromise, we can still have cats and they can have access to the outside - and we'll try to force the issue of them being inside at night so we know they are safe.
 

zissou'smom

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"What we are going to do is head to the local animal shelter and rescue another kitty or two and give it a good home. If it wants to wander away and a coyote gets it then at least we can say we gave it an opportunity."

You're going to do WHAT???????????????????????????????????????

Another cat or two should be new members of your family. Not coyote bait. This does not qualify in any way as being "an opportunity". The idea of this is so beyond my comprehension I don't even think I can politely say any more.
 

zissou'smom

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Okay.

I'm sorry if my earlier reaction seemed... harsh. Many of us work/volunteer in shelters and if anyone said anything remotely close to the part I quoted earlier, they would not be taking home a cat from us.

Now. I will try to respond to your post in a calmer manner. Homeowner's Associations (HOA) can be ridiculous, I know what you're up against. My dad started one so nobody could put up a shed. I hate living in neighborhoods like that although they tend to be friendlier and safer. So that's too bad about the cat fencing. I hope you actually asked them about it, it wasn't clear in your post. Cat fencing can be nearly invisible. I'm glad you have decided to keep your cats inside at night at least, even though permanently would be better and you have had numerous ideas about this proposed, none of us know your house and I guess that is what works best for you. I still can't imagine letting cats outside knowing they might be eaten or attacked by coyotes on top of everything else that comes standard with having indoor/outdoor cats. I do agree with you that cats enjoy being outdoors. It's just that there are significantly safer ways to do it, including enclosures and harness-training. My cat goes outside, with me, on walks on her harness because I know she likes being outside as she was a feral cat. She is indoors only except the few times a week I take her out. This does not work for all cats, but for us it works very well. Nobody thinks cats wouldn't choose to go outside. It's just that this is not what is best for them. They don't want to take medicine for illnesses either, but we know that it may be lifesaving and do so anyway. And in your case, keeping the cats inside may very well be lifesaving as it has already proven fatal for your other cats.

As for adopting two cats and not really caring if they get killed. I hope you didn't mean what you said but I cannot possibly imagine how you could say that and mean something else.

ALL cats deserve a safe, happy home where they are loved. The lackadaisical attitude towards the well-being of your potential adopted cats leads me to believe that you would not provide this. If you absolutely must adopt more cats, although I do wish you would reconsider until you can keep them in where they won't be killed, adopt cats who haven't been outdoors and keep them inside. Cats who have always been inside often won't even go out a door left open unsupervised for hours. And keep them inside. Otherwise, don't adopt them.

It is not cruel to keep cats inside, and in your case, it is almost irresponsible to let them out knowing full well the risks they face of being mauled or killed by a coyote. You have a direct, obvious, and well-proven threat to your cats basically right outside your yard, and you cannot guarantee that your cats are protected and in fact know that they aren't, but you let them out anyway. Bringing more cats into this situation just makes it worse, and I have no idea why you'd want them if you wouldn't care if they died or not and would in fact have talked yourself into some nonsense about how "at least they got an opportunity". The cats don't know they might be killed by a coyote--- you do, and it is up to you to protect them.
 

catsallover

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Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

Okay.

I'm sorry if my earlier reaction seemed... harsh. Many of us work/volunteer in shelters and if anyone said anything remotely close to the part I quoted earlier, they would not be taking home a cat from us.

. The cats don't know they might be killed by a coyote--- you do, and it is up to you to protect them.
Okay, 3 things (remember, I am on your side about indoor/outdoor cats
)-
1) Coyotes are mainly, overwhelmingly a nighttime problem, don't try, make them , stay in at night-it's just a few hours and they will eventually get bored and sleep, especially if they are out running around during the day


2) I would stick to the 2 cats you have for now, get them used to being in at night until they have a well established habit of coming in at dark and consider waiting until these have passed away before adding new ones. And ALWAYS keep new cats in for a while, a long while, before you let them out, and then only supervised and for short periods. Be sure to aquaint them with the coming in treat time BEFORE you let them out unescorted. Perhaps your new cats will be like my Smooch and not want to go out 99% of the time, let alone leave the yard, and

3)My cats do know when the coyotes are coming around (they just pass through our neighborhood) and are home and in for the night even before I call them. Then I know the coyotes are due to come through one night real soon.
.

It is our responsiblity to protect them, but we know our cats better than anyone else, and have to do right by them and ourselves.
I love my cats and my dog and my turtle, but they are ultimately animals, not children. Some just need to be allowed to be animals. To each his own, when it comes down to it. Good luck.
 

zissou'smom

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Ultimately, we are animals too. However, we have the aforethought to know when we are in danger, and though cats often are even better at this than we are, new cats who have been safe inside have no idea that they may be at any time killed by a coyote. Obviously, the OP's cats don't know or they wouldn't have already been killed by coyotes...

Indoor cats have a lifespan of 15 or 20 happy years. Cats allowed outside have lifespans of 2 and a half to 5 years. (Yes, there are outdoor cats who live twenty years and indoor cats who live one. These are statistics and averages, not preditcions).

I fear that for these cats those might be overshots.
 
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