Speaking English

When immigrating here, as an person whose first language is English, I had to 'prove' I could speak English, which kind of annoyed me because if you don't have English as a first language they just send you off to school to learn, but I had to pay for a test after graduating from an English university.

I have however, found it helps to be bilingual, especially given the demographics of where you live. Back in school I HATED being forced to learn French, German, Spanish and Latin and happily dropped all but French when I reached grade 10 and had the choice, but now I wish I had kept them up.

Luckily, the countries I have lived in after England (France for a while and now Canada), I don't have a huge need for Spanish or German and when the need does arise I can remember enough to get me by (helping tourists etc)

I really believe that no one should be forced to know any particular language to have the right to live in a country... but I think learning other languages should be encouraged.

I especially think that young children should be exposed to languages other than their native language because they can learn them so much more easily than adults can. Yet, when I went to school (I don't know if it's still the case now), I didn't have English classes until the 4th grade. I think it had something to do with the government trying to "protect" our French culture or something.

If I ever have kids, I'll be sure to speak to them in as many languages as I know (so far French and English, but I'm working on my Spanish). At a young age, kids can learn as many languages as they are exposed to without any effort. One of my psychology prof once talked about a family she was studying where the children were exposed to French, English and 2 different sign languages and learned all of them without effort, and without getting mixed up.

Still, language classes should be easily accessible to adults too. Learning more languages is always useful and it helps in understanding other cultures too. Since nowadays almost everyone is exposed to people of many different origins and cultures, it's really important.

those in my Grandmas generation ( born in the early 1900's ) had it right ... They learned the native language and it was easier since she knew 5-6 others evan without formal education... I say learn as many as you can .... due to Grandma I know enough to get through Modern day Europe ( I know the basics but would refresh prior to a visit ) ... It was funny as a child not knowing that I was saying words that werent English( see no one told me )

I agree. I also think its coming to that point that we're required to know a second language by the time we graduate from high school in the US.

For one thing, what has always annoyed me is when a US citizen travels to a foreign country and EXPECTS that everyone knows English and can speak it fluently. We have been spoiled with English being our dominant language.

in most contries they offer english in school. My husband is not from here and he knows how t speak english better than me!

I think extra languages should deffinatley be encouraged. It will only help in the long run. My husband knows 4 languages and learning spanish which he is great at.

IM on my 3rd language right now and hope to learn 2 more in the future.

Ouch - the perfect topic for me. I was raised in a bilingual household (mom is an English speaker, dad's first language was Spanish), so I was comfortable with both languages until my early twenties. I studied German, and married a German at 23. (I'm 49.) Since then, the bilingual household has been German/English, and my Spanish has completely deteriorated. I work at a language school, and my Spanish/Latin American colleagues find it funny that they can speak Spanish to me/in front of me, but I reply/comment in German, which they all understand. I have a smattering of Hungarian and Romanian, meaning I can buy gas or groceries, or order a meal while on vacation, and I can guess Italian or French words. (I live in Europe, for those who aren't aware of that fact.)
I personally feel that if somebody is living in a foreign country, they're obligated to learn the "lingua franca", and shouldn't expect the "natives" to speak their language. I would make exceptions for senior citizens, and feel for those, mainly women, who are stuck at home and have little opportunity to learn the language of their host country. However, learning the language of the country you reside in is an absolute "must", because integration is otherwise impossible.

English is a very easy language to learn. I remembered I had to constantly struggle with learning Chinese when I was in Taiwan, but as soon as I arrived in the U.S. I had no problems learning English. Within two years I was on the debate team and I didn't even learn English in Taiwan.

People who can't learn English probably did not learn their native languages so well either............

I also think its a must to learn the language in which country you are residing in.
I speak fluent german now and realised that the germans are much more friendlier to me even though i make grammatical erros they correct me when i ask them to.

Like Tricia, ive grown up in a billingual house, English/Italian but sign language.

I see why people used to get annoyed with me, back then i was reculant to learn german and i was a stubborn little girl, now when foregners come here i encourage them to speak german, not only to me, but also for their own sake so they get the hang of the language.

If I moved permanantly to a country, then I would learn their language - The same as I would learn their laws and customs (not necessarily take on their customs, but certainly respect them).

And especially if you are educated in a country not of your birth, you MUST learn the language.

I knew too many people at school who had been in the country for 6-7 years and still tried to tell everyone they didn't know the language - They were educated in English speaking schools yet somehow they didn't know the language? Seems very convenient to me, seen as though they get all the special attention because they "can't" speak the language!

Rant over

This is a great topic! I agree with several others that when LIVING in a country, the person should learn enough of the native language to get around comfortably, and not expect others to compensate by learning their language. But I also feel that it would be common courtesy that when you VISIT another country for vacation, to learn enough to be able to say the basics (thank you, etc).

This is a controversial topic, I myself am a little confused! I can sorta see both sides....I guess someone shouldn't be FORCED to learn another language when they move, but its also not fair for the native people to be losing jobs because they are not bilingual. Also, its not as if the immigrants would have to speak english all the time, only when they are somewhere where it is needed.

One is not going succeed, in this country, if they don't speak English. By all means, keep one's native language but, learning English is a MUST.

Since my DIL is Hispanic, my granddaughters are growing up, with both English and Spanish. Since my Spanish is at about a 3 y/o level, I can understand them, most of the time

NOT ANYMORE! The ladtino's have INSISTED WE learn mexican Spanish! If we go ot Mexico THEY won't speak English But when they come here the Governmant is going to go with their wishes that WE learn to speak Spanish!

First of all, let me just state that I have no problem with people wanting to move to another country to find a better life for themselves and their families. I also have no problem with them keeping their own language and culture once they do so.
However....
If, for example, I decided I wanted to move to Germany, I would learn German language, history, and culture. I'd still speak English when appropriate and retain my American-ness, but I'd make an effort to absorb some German-ness, as well.

It seems like most non-English speakers who come to the US understand this and learn at least enough English to get by, but there are a few who ruin it for all.

You put that much more eloquently than me! Well said!

People who can't learn English in America are probably illiterate in their own countries in the first place (migrant populations).

Literacy needs to be encouraged, no matter what the language people would be learning. It never hurts to learn another language.

I learned Latin for two years. Everybody told me it was a useless and dead language. It was very useful for me as a science major. I would NEVER had imagined to be where I am right now without my Latin education.

Personally I do not believe that many people in the western states have any right to complain of latinos not speaking English. Much of that land was in fact stolen from them without provocation several generations ago. Essentially, they became American overnight, and their language remained. Now people discriminate against them for their heritage, when in fact their families were there first. They merely want the right to speak the language of their ancestors.


http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pics/geo...ge/spanish.gif


http://photolab.elmer.uaf.edu/galler...1841%20S75.jpg

Notice any correlation?

The section of Arizona, where I live, is part of the Gadsden Purchase - BOUGHT not STOLEN from Mexico. Regardless of HOW the land was acquired, it is now part of the United States and the language is English.

As I stated earlier, my DIL is Hispanic and is fluent in BOTH languages and my granddaughters will be, too. This opens up MANY more opportunites for them. My DIL is a teacher. I don't want to see my girls cleaning toilets, for minimum wage, when they grow up.

It was indeed purchased-by force. The war began when Mexico attempted to defend its land from American settlers, and the treaty was signed only when Mexico agreed to surrender the land. Forced sale is no more righteous than theft.

It does matter how the land was acquired, because it was recent enough that not so distant descendants still speak the language and hold the culture. What gave us the right then, or indeed, gives us the right now, to simply take land and force the inhabitants to assimilate?

The argument that people must speak English because it is America does not hold up to the facts. On one of the maps I provided, it shows that in many parts of the west Spanish is actually a majority language. Why is it assumed that anyone speaking only Spanish will end up cleaning toilets?

I suggest that maybe people would enjoy this article.

http://www.fff.org/comment/com0605b.asp

Personally I applaud these changes, because of the more welcoming attitude they will cause. However, you are not quite correct about California. Spanish is not yet the most spoken language in any state, but it is the most spoken second language in 43. New Mexico actually has the highest, with 43% Spanish speakers, with California at about 32%, I think.

Did you look at my maps, Sailfish?

I just wrote a ten-page research paper on bilingual education... and a whole lot of the immigrants some of us are defending do not want their children to learn Spanish at all. Many of them want their children taught in immersion English-only settings (regardless of the fact that it's the worst way to teach them English). I'm obviously not gonna post the paper here, but if you'd like to read it I'd be happy to send it via email to anyone interested.

Anyway, as for who was here first or who really "owns" the land, that is a very very North American idea, as nearly every country in the world has had it's borders and it's rulers and it's people changed numerous times. Also the lines were between a bunch of explorers and European colonists, so they're pretty artificial anyway. Yes, manifest destiny was a stupid idea and an arrogant one, but it is pretty irrelevant now. Wars over territory are fought all over the world, artificial lines are drawn in the desert (like the middle east) and the country looks like it does today. So let's deal with how it is today. We are mostly not talking about descendants of people who lived on the land America "stole" or whatever, we are talking about people who have immigrated here from Mexico or wherever else.

That said, the thing that is actually best is bilingual education, both ways. Meaning English-speaking children and Spanish-speaking children are in the same class and all of them are taught in both English and Spanish. Statistically, it is the best way for all of them and literacy scores for both groups are improved. If you are a third- or second- generation immigrant who does not speak English you are more likely to never have finished high school and more likely to be unemployed. English is a benefit, but we should always provide reasonable accomodations for people who are learning it and also for first-generation immigrants. Unlike most laws being passed that actually hurt both learning English and also the immigrants in general, such as states that have passed laws requiring that driver's liscense exams be given only in written english, where they used to be given in 200+ languages, or laws that IMO violate the constitution such as requiring that all court proceedings be done only in English with no translator, such that someone may not even know what they're charged with or what evidence is against them.

Excellent points. I have thought at length about the dilemma regarding the effects on the native population. It is certainly true that there is no point in disputing every theft of land in history.

The only reason I ever mention it is that it is so very recent, history wise, coupled with that fact that many speakers of the same language are currently entering the country.

Thirdly, there is one thing I have never understood about the English-only movement. What do people propose we do with cities in which Spanish is the majority language?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...2C000_people_6

IMHO if you are coming to live in a country to make a better life for yourself then you need to learn the language and culture of your new home. You can't expect the entire country to cater to your language needs to make things easier for you. I know that sounds harsh but its how it should be. I have lived in and traveled to many foreign countries and I prepared by making my self fluent enough to get by. Granted i didn't know how to speak the language properly or be engrossed in a real conversation but I could ask directions and how much things costed etc. And what I didn't know I found more people to be willing to help with things when you atleast tried to speak your broken fill in their native language and their broken english than when you didn't even try.

IMO Just learn the language of the place you are going to LIVE. Make things easier for yourself and everyone else.

You didn't exactly answer my question..?

I think it is easier for everyone in a whole country to speak one language. We don't like in a place where having a so many different languages makes sense. Why should a handful of cities have spanish as a language and everyone else English? We have a national language in the US. Its English. Not Spanish.

Actually, I would point out that those are quite many cities, including several large ones. San Antonio is quite populated.

As of today, we do not have a national language. Some states have made English their official language, but others have not. New Mexico has laws in both English and Spanish.

I would like to ask, did you look at my earlier maps?

I think that if you move to america you should be required to learn english. I don't expect you to move here already knowing but what is the problem with learning it? I think it is sad when a child is having to to translate what their parents are saying because they won't take the initiative to learn the language. When I worked at pizza hut it use to irritate me when a child would call to place an order because the parant was disabled in doing so.

My daughter (the 4 yr. old) was one out of five children in a classroom of 25 who only spoke english, some spoke both and some spoke only spanish...

At the end of the year one of the spanish only speaking students now speak english fluently. While I applaud this, I also wonder if this hindered my child learning in school any.

All I am really trying to say is if I ever moved to another country (Mexico, Germany, Italy etc) I would do what I could to teach me and my children thier language and I only ask the same from others.

If that is true, then it would now. As would New Mexico and Texas. If this is true and the statistic is on, then Spanish is a majority language in three states, two highly populated. I think that we will simply have to wait for 2010 to find out.

A good question is, what will happen when(or if already) it is a majority language in some states?