Fighting Cats Please Help !!

pami

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Hello all,

Newbie here. What a GREAT site !
I will try to make this brief. My name is Pamela, I have 5 cats. About 3.5 years ago, I found a stray longhaired beautiful cat, who was pregnant. She delivered 4 kittens, 3 males, 1 female. I kept them all. They are all inside cats and all spayed and neutered. About 1.5 years ago, I noticed 2 of the males had some tension between them. Tino is a very serious cat and Ducky is a total clown. I noticed that Tino, at times didn't tolerate Ducky. But all I noticed was Ducky following Tino until Tino swatted at him. Or Tino laying somewhere and Ducky laying beneath him rolling on his back with Tino meowing and eventually walking away with Ducky most of the time following. There was some hissing and chasing and then they would play together and even sleep together. About 2 and 1/2 weeks ago, all 5 cats came running upstairs, 3 of them preceded to engage in a ferocious fight. The 2 males, Tino and Ducky and their sister, Laura. Im sure I didn't handle the situation in the best way because I had never seen this before. I panicked and was clapping my hands and screaming, , "No", they fled, under the bed continuing to fight. Tino ran out, into another room, I closed him in the room. I, very ignorantly, pulled Laura out from under the bed (with no injury to me) and put her into another closed room. I closed Ducky into the room he was in. I went downstairs to see what possibly could have provoked it, I saw Ducky's hair all over the living room.

I went to check on the 3 cats, they were extremely agitated. I called my vets office who advised me to let them back in the same room together. I could not do that and did not do that. I called the vet himself, who does home visits for me because my cats are very, very bad vet patients and asked him to please come. He did. Ducky and Laura were injured. He put them on antibiotics. He did and overall examination and had also done a thorough health check up several months ago. He said they are healthy and this obviously stemmed from territorial aggression. He advised me to keep them separated, doing small reintroduction intervals, daily.

Very quickly, within 24 hours, Laura, who is a very gentle and loving girl, had made peace with Tino and Ducky, I suspect she was somehow caught in the middle of the fight. As I researched further, I decided to do a complete separation of Ducky and Tino and have done so for a week now. We usually all sleep in the bed together, but we cannot now. As a result, I alternate with Ducky and Tino, who sleeps in the bed at night and let the other cats choose to stay in the bedroom or out of the bedroom. If Ducky comes to the door at night, Tino gets extremely upset, ears back, tail twitching, down low to the ground. If Tino comes to the door, Ducky sits by the door with his tail twitching. And at least on one occasion they have tried to fight one another under the door. For the last 2.5 weeks, I am constantly woken up, 10+ times a night, to a cat wanting inside or outside the bedroom door.

My question, has anyone had this problem before? Am I doing the right thing? When should I try to bring Tino and Ducky around one another ? I have read that sometimes this cannot be resolved. Any advise would be so greatly appreciated as all the cats are becoming extreme whiney butts, due to the separation and Im sleep deprived.

Thanks in advance,
Pamela
 

tiggeroo

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its hard when two cats decide they hate eachother! and i dont think i can be MUCH help here but maybe you could feed the offending cats seperately than your others but together if you know what i mean, they may start to associate eachother with getting food
 

tru

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All I can think of is to try getting some Feliway diffusers and plugging a couple in and also maybe putting some vanilla extract on the cats under chin and by base of tail to perhaps even the scents. Then perhaps they could work this out with some overseeing by you without drawing blood hopefully.

Lately my Monique has taken to terrorizing Buddy. Goofiest thing, since he's more muscular than she and she is declawed.

I don't know how this started, but I've had to give her timeouts in the cage a couple times hoping she will quit chasing him into hiding.

Good luck with getting your boys back into a calmer relationship.
 

kathryn41

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I can fully sympathize. 1 1/2 years ago I had a similar situation. I was woken up at 3:30 am with a major cat fight between my 2 loving, bottle raised brothers . I separated them - with resultant injury to myself - and found that one of them started to seriously attack a third cat. I have 5 - the 3 males ended up fighting. The cause of redirected aggression - a neighbour's cat comes up to our backdoor window and tries to attack through the window at our cats. Our bedroom door was closed and the two brothers got very agitated and I think caught in the door blind and started panicking. The other attacked him, then the third who was cowering by the closed door got caught in the middle.

You are doing the right thing - and I must say it will probaly take a long time and a lot of work on your part to restore order into your household. Keep the two antagonists apart - and keep an eye on Laura all the same. She may have been caught in the middle but if something triggers another fight (fear, outside intruder, etc.) then she could end up getting attacked again.

Definitely get the feliway air diffusers - it will help to keep the mood more positive. Set up a separate space if you have one as a sanctuary for one of the one who fights so that you can put one or the other in there to cool down. Be prepared to intervene as required to get them separated. You don't want anything even to start so if you see posturing interrupt it right away. One of the signs is 'staring'. If you see your cats staring hard at each other break their eye contact - run your hand between their faces, distract them, do anything you can to interrupt their attention. You will become an expert at distraction - either with a toy or rope or anything. Keep objects like that around the house so you can grab one quickly.

Also keep around the house blankets or coverlets so if you do have a fight break out you can throw the blanket over one - not both- of the fighters and interrupt it that way. It also gives you a safe way to carry an aggressor to a safe room.

Practise positive reinforcements - creating non threatening situations where you can reintroduce your fighters for short periods of time without creating stress. Give them both treats at the same time or feed them at the same time so that they begin to associate pleasurable activities with each others company.

You should also talk to your vet about the possibiity of using medical intervention. I got a prescription for amitryptilene - a type of sedative - which I ended up not having to use as we had a 'break through' into more positive behaviour. Your vet can phone the prescription into a compounding pharmacy who can make it up into a paste that you rub inside the cats ears so you don't have to fight giving it as a pill.

As I mentioned we are now 1 1/2 years after the first aggression and the third cat who was caught in the middle still sleeps at night in the spare room. He is happiest there and there isn't the risk of anything breaking out again as he quickly became the 'scapegoat' for the others. I have had to intervene a few times when outside scary events occur - pile driving banging during a house construction behind us, a dog running up to the window, a return of that same cat who caused the first problem - but because I was on top of it I was able to interrupt the aggression before it got out of hand.

Your household will probably not return to the happy 5 in 1 routine you had before this incident but you can return to a much healthier and happier home. It will just take time. Good luck. I know exactly what you are going through.
 
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pami

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Thanks for the responses.
I couldnt begin to feed them together, as of now. The first week and half doing as the vet suggested to put them together for short intervals all had to be intervened because of the direct eye contact, ears back and tail swatting. Tino absolutely hates Ducky right now. I couldnt see myself ever having to give either of them a new home. So I guess I will just wait as long as it takes.

Unfortunately, feliaway was directly sprayed onto my cats, as kittens, when they went to the vet and were placed right next to a german shepard (they had never seen a dog), they all began "freaking out" and the assistant just turned around a sprayed them. So feliaway was associated with something bad for them and they growl when they smell it. ( I was furious with the vet and changed to a cat only vet).

Laura got very nervous when I tried to bring Ducky and Tino together. But when she's with them individually, she has returned to her sweet nurturing and grooming "them" disposition, but I will keep an eye on her.

From what I have read, I guess I will keep them totally separated for another week and then slowly do some re introductions and hopefully we can make some progress.

Thanks again
 

iluvmybabes

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Originally Posted by Pami

Hello all,

Newbie here. What a GREAT site !
I will try to make this brief. My name is Pamela, I have 5 cats. About 3.5 years ago, I found a stray longhaired beautiful cat, who was pregnant. She delivered 4 kittens, 3 males, 1 female. I kept them all. They are all inside cats and all spayed and neutered. About 1.5 years ago, I noticed 2 of the males had some tension between them. Tino is a very serious cat and Ducky is a total clown. I noticed that Tino, at times didn't tolerate Ducky. But all I noticed was Ducky following Tino until Tino swatted at him. Or Tino laying somewhere and Ducky laying beneath him rolling on his back with Tino meowing and eventually walking away with Ducky most of the time following. There was some hissing and chasing and then they would play together and even sleep together. About 2 and 1/2 weeks ago, all 5 cats came running upstairs, 3 of them preceded to engage in a ferocious fight. The 2 males, Tino and Ducky and their sister, Laura. Im sure I didn't handle the situation in the best way because I had never seen this before. I panicked and was clapping my hands and screaming, , "No", they fled, under the bed continuing to fight. Tino ran out, into another room, I closed him in the room. I, very ignorantly, pulled Laura out from under the bed (with no injury to me) and put her into another closed room. I closed Ducky into the room he was in. I went downstairs to see what possibly could have provoked it, I saw Ducky's hair all over the living room.

I went to check on the 3 cats, they were extremely agitated. I called my vets office who advised me to let them back in the same room together. I could not do that and did not do that. I called the vet himself, who does home visits for me because my cats are very, very bad vet patients and asked him to please come. He did. Ducky and Laura were injured. He put them on antibiotics. He did and overall examination and had also done a thorough health check up several months ago. He said they are healthy and this obviously stemmed from territorial aggression. He advised me to keep them separated, doing small reintroduction intervals, daily.

Very quickly, within 24 hours, Laura, who is a very gentle and loving girl, had made peace with Tino and Ducky, I suspect she was somehow caught in the middle of the fight. As I researched further, I decided to do a complete separation of Ducky and Tino and have done so for a week now. We usually all sleep in the bed together, but we cannot now. As a result, I alternate with Ducky and Tino, who sleeps in the bed at night and let the other cats choose to stay in the bedroom or out of the bedroom. If Ducky comes to the door at night, Tino gets extremely upset, ears back, tail twitching, down low to the ground. If Tino comes to the door, Ducky sits by the door with his tail twitching. And at least on one occasion they have tried to fight one another under the door. For the last 2.5 weeks, I am constantly woken up, 10+ times a night, to a cat wanting inside or outside the bedroom door.

My question, has anyone had this problem before? Am I doing the right thing? When should I try to bring Tino and Ducky around one another ? I have read that sometimes this cannot be resolved. Any advise would be so greatly appreciated as all the cats are becoming extreme whiney butts, due to the separation and Im sleep deprived.

Thanks in advance,
Pamela
Please try to give it time, I have a very similar issue with my babies, it is awful!!! It has been goingon for a month and a week, but SLOWLY getting better. I say keep them separated introducing them all the time. Remember mine is going on over a month, so don't give up yet! I have a post posted if you want to read it.
 

katkisses

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I sat here and thought after reading your dilemma.

And I finally have an idea..

Do you have 2 carriers? If so you can put them both in carriers, in the same room during feeding time, then when they are done eating return them to their separate rooms. After they get use to this, just put them in the two carriers to sniff each other (make sure that the carriers are far away from each other that one can't reach the other with their paw) with being able to fight, the second they calm down during each session return them to their room. Until they are comfortable at any given time, and amount of time being together (and maybe having the carriers side by side at this point) then, and only then, let them meet by having harnesses on BOTH of them, and one tied to something in your house (maybe something like a table leg) and holding the end of the 2nd cats leash, and slowly decrease the space between them. If they start putting their ears back, etc, increase the space between them and make them stay that far away until they are BOTH clam, then stop there and put them in their separate rooms.

The idea is to slowly and safely get them re-aquainted until they are able to be lose in the the same room, and still be happy.

Good luck.
 

lotsocats

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This is from the Best Friends Network:

INTER-CAT AGGRESSION

From: Clinical Medicine for Small Animals. Dr. Karen Overall DVM, ACVB (Mosby 1997)
(Note: these are handouts that the author has given permission in the book for Veterinarians to copy and distribute to clients

Generally, inter-cat aggression occurs either between cats that have been recently introduced, or between those cats known to each other since kitten hood. It occurs when one of the cats becomes socially mature (sometime between two-five years of age), or when one cat perceives that the other cat in the household is becoming socially mature. Owners often comment that the cats lived together perfectly well for the first several years before suddenly becoming aggressive.

Treatment for this disorder focuses on establishing a social order that is tolerable for all cats involved, without danger of injury. The cats may never be best friends. But they may be able to get along together with a minimum of stress. Sometimes, the only solution is to find one of the cats another home. One thing is for sure, you should avoid getting any other cats. That would only added more fuel to the fire.

The basic protocol for solving this problem is as follows (source: Overall, K; Clinical Behavioral Medicine for Small Animals, 1997):

1. Make sure all cats are neutered.

2. Trim all the nails as short as possible.

3. Whenever the cats are not directly supervised, they must be separated. The cat that is the aggressor should be banished to a less valuable or less desirable area. This does not mean a dark closet, a basement, outside, or a garage. Doing this would only teach the cat to avoid you. Instead, if the bulk of the aggression occurs in a bedroom or in front of a favorite window, let the cat that is being victimized have the valued area and put the aggressor into a neutral area like a spare room. Remember to provide water, food and litter boxes for all the cats.

4. Try to find out if there is a distance at which the cats can see each other, but at which they will not react aggressively while they eat. If such a distance exists, then there is a reasonable chance of being able to convince the cats to tolerate each other. You start by putting a dish of food for each cat that they love at this safe distance. This may mean that you have to change the feeding schedule or the type of food given. Several times throughout the day, bring the cats out and feed them at the safe distance. Let them eat this way for several days. Then gradually start moving the dishes closer a couple centimeters at a time until the cats can eat calmly side-by-side. If at any time you reach a distance in which the cats start showing aggression, anxiety, or fear, move the dishes back to the safe distance and start over. If you cannot succeed in getting the cats to eat side-by-side, let them eat at the distance at which they are happy. Remember, the goal is to decrease the anxiety-especially for the victim. Be very observant for any of the subtle signs of aggression-like staring. Watch how fast the cats eat. If the victim bolts the food and leaves, or doesn't want to eat, there are probably threats involved.

5. If marking and appropriate elimination is involved, use the appropriate behavioral modification in addition to what is outlined in this protocol.

6. Only allow the cats to freely mingle under the following circumstances:
-when they have the bell on their collars that allows you to distinguish between the individuals
-if you are able and willing to visually monitor the situation at all times
-if you carry a water pistol, compressed air canister, a whistle or a fog horn at all times. At the first sign of aggression, you must interrupt the cats by directing the device towards

the aggressor. Use common sense in choosing the device to use.
-if the threats escalate to frank aggression, do not reach between the cats. You will get hurt and make the situation worse. If you must get involved, throw a blanket over the animals, or use a broom or a piece of cardboard to separate them.

7. Use harnesses and leashes for all involved cats. If there are two or more people in the household, you can take turns monitoring the cats. If you are alone, attached the leash of the aggressive cat to the furniture and hold the leash of the other cat. The cats should be restrained at a distance at which they cannot touch each other even if they lunge. Find a food treat that they love. Any time the cats ignore each other praise them vigorously and given the treat. If the aggressor voluntarily looks away from the victim, reward that. If the victim stares at the aggressive cat reward that. Do not give a treat to any cat that shows signs of aggression, fear, or anxiety. These include shaking, cringing and hiding.

8. Use a harness to correct the cat verbally or with a startle at the first sign of any aggression. If the aggression continues, banish the aggressive cat to the undesirable area.

9. Use the harnesses to arrange the cats so that they can't reach each other. Then alternate between the involved cats and groom and massage them. Start with the victim. The goal is to get them to not react to each other. Any cat that react aggressively is banished. You can couple a favorable response to food treats. If the cats ignore each other gradually begin to move them closer together. They should not become distressed or aggressive by the moves. If they do, separate them and try again at a greater distance.

10. If the cats are able to lie side-by-side without becoming distressed or aggressive and if they can eat together, you can leave them alone for gradually increasing amounts of time. If you notice at any time that either cats is injured or avoiding the other cat repeat the previous steps. Some cats will never tolerate being close together but can live peaceful and separate lives in the same house.

11. Cats generally require and use more space than the average house or apartment gives them. Adding three-dimensional space can help in the form of kitty condos, cardboard boxes, beds and crates in all rooms once the reintroduction of the cats has begun.

12. Some cats may benefit from antianxiety medication. If medication needed, it is used to complement the behavior modification process and not to replace it.
 

krazy kat2

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Wow! What a great bit of information. I think we all kind of knew it, but it is good to see it written down in a convenient, usable form. Fortunately, I am not having problems right now, but I am still going to print this out and keep it handy. Thanks!
 
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