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Convicted Killer want state to pay for sex change operation

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/3916614.html

According to the TV news this morning, his lawyer is comparing the operation to a liver transplant. He feels it is just as medically necessary as the transplant. I certainly don't want my tax dollars paying for this.
post #2 of 24
I'm with you there Karen...that's disgusting!. He lost his rights for uneccesary procedures when he strangled his wife!
post #3 of 24
He killed his wife. That should be enough of an response for me. She never had a chance to live a full life, he stole that from her. He shouldn't be given any special concessions to make his life better. So what if he may kill himself, he killed someone else. I'm normally all for transgendered rights, but this person is a killer.
post #4 of 24
It sticks in my throat knowing my taxes are keeping convicted criminals with luxuries such as t.v.'s, game consoles etc..., so that would really tick me off!
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbysMom
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/3916614.html

According to the TV news this morning, his lawyer is comparing the operation to a liver transplant. He feels it is just as medically necessary as the transplant. I certainly don't want my tax dollars paying for this.
I'll be the devil's advocate here. Essentially, Gender Identity Disorder is a medical condition. Its listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and has five criteria that must be met before a diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder (302.85) can be given: [1]

1. There must be evidence of a strong and persistent cross-gender identification.
2. This cross-gender identification must not merely be a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex.
3. There must also be evidence of persistent discomfort about one's assigned sex or a sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex.
4. The individual must not have a concurrent physical intersex condition (e.g., androgen insensitivity syndrome or congenital adrenal hyperplasia).
5. There must be evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

However, I don't know if I agree with the state paying for it if he is incarcerated.
I would have to think about it..
post #6 of 24
I don't think this guy should get the surgery. Sex change does not equal liver transplant. He's in jail and should not get such things. It may be a ploy to get attention, or to get out of jail.
post #7 of 24
I fully support anyone's right to change their gender and be respected in their new identity. It's not some strange whim of these people; they are born into the wrong body.
However, when it comes to taxpayers having to fork out for such an expensive operation for a murderer, that's going to be a tough sell. And then there's the question of where to incarcerate him in the meantime as he's halfway there to changing his gender.
Personally, I think the victims of crimes are so quickly forgotten in our system, while we worry about the rights of criminals. Cheryl's life was taken by this guy. Frankly, I don't have a lot of sympathy for him, and I think he's just making it harder for other transgenders to be accepted by society.
post #8 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
I'll be the devil's advocate here. Essentially, Gender Identity Disorder is a medical condition. Its listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders and has five criteria that must be met before a diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder (302.85) can be given: [1]

1. There must be evidence of a strong and persistent cross-gender identification.
2. This cross-gender identification must not merely be a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex.
3. There must also be evidence of persistent discomfort about one's assigned sex or a sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex.
4. The individual must not have a concurrent physical intersex condition (e.g., androgen insensitivity syndrome or congenital adrenal hyperplasia).
5. There must be evidence of clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

However, I don't know if I agree with the state paying for it if he is incarcerated.
I would have to think about it..
Your facts are clinically true and all, but you must be a lot nicer person than I am because I don't have to think about it one bit. No way, no how should a murderer have this surgery. - IMO

I doubt very much that an indigent person could get the same benefit. What about our servicemen? Why should a convicted killer have more rights? I can't even believe the US has already paid for the treatment he's had so far causing him potental problems with being in either a facility for men or women.
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
I have no issues with the surgery itself, and don't debate that Gender Identity Disorder is a medical condition. I don't agree that my tax dollars should pay for this when the man killed his wife!
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbysMom
I have no issues with the surgery itself, and don't debate that Gender Identity Disorder is a medical condition. I don't agree that my tax dollars should pay for this when the main killed his wife!
Bingo! That is hitting the nail on the head!
post #11 of 24
So, just to clarify: The state should pay for life-saving medical treatments, but not treatment for mental health disorders for criminals serving time?
Would only perpetrators of a serious personal crime (murder, rape, assault etc) and not those of property crime be denied treatment? How would you differentiate who should be treated for what?

Does this mean that a murderer or rapist shouldn't receive treatment for depression/alcoholism/bipolar/OCD ? Or is it a question of expense? As in there should be a monetary limit to the amount of treatment an inmate receives?

Just throwing some questions out there...
post #12 of 24
No surgery for him IMO!! This is not a life or death situation. I pay too much moeny already to keep him clothed and fed and sheltered and with health benefits that he doesn't deserve. The man is a murderer. I am against spending any more money on him than is absolutely necessary!
post #13 of 24
I don't think convicted murderers should get liver transplants either. To give them a transplant takes a liver away from a law abiding citizen in need.

I do believe she feels she is supposed to be a woman, but she gave up her rights when she killed her wife, soooo as she has now implied suicide, into the psyc ward for evalutation as threat to self or others.

~Julia
post #14 of 24
I don't care if he was in prison for robbery. I don't believe my tax dollars should be spent giving this guy a sex change. Now if for a LIFE SAVING EMERGENCY surgery than that is another story.
post #15 of 24
So, some think that life threatening physical surgery shouldn't be denied and some believe that prisoners lose this privilege/right when they enter the institution? How do you feel about prisoners receiving treatment for mental health conditions if they cost the state (and ultimately yourselves?)

Or is keeping them in SC (solitary confinement) on a suicide watch as far as treatment should go?

What if, when that person is released that they would be a heathier emotionally and mentally and therefore more able to meet the demands and stresses their condition creates? Ie, They would have more of a chance of being a productive citizen. After all, prison isn't all deterrent or punishment. Its a rehabilitative centre as well, is it not??
post #16 of 24
Why sould he get what he wnts when he took his wife's life away from her and family.. I can not beleive the attorney...
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Since the person in question is serving a life sentence for the murder of his wife and will not be released, I am not particularly concerned about his emotional well being.
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbysMom
Since the person in question is serving a life sentence for the murder of his wife and will not be released, I am not particularly concerned about his emotional well being.
I was speaking generally for discussive purposes really, not just referring to this inmate...

But does this mean you are concerned for the emotional well being of those who are eventually released?

(just as an aside: Life doesn't mean 'life' in Canada. It means 25 years.)
post #19 of 24
Quote:
Two psychiatrists will testify that Kosilek functions "at a very high level" and that a sex-change operation is not medically necessary, McFarland said.
The way I see it is that sex change operations are not usually paid for by the state for people not in prison so why should it be paid for for those in prison. The psychiatrist say it is not medically necc. and so wouldn't be provided outside prison for free either.

If medicaid/medicare wouldn't cover it outside (and they are non earning while in prison and so fall under this category) then IMO it shouldn't be covered.

Quote:
(just as an aside: Life doesn't mean 'life' in Canada. It means 25 years.)
I thought he was in the States?
post #20 of 24
Hate to hog this thread with my endless questions....But I am bored at work and interested in this thread....

But many prisoners do earn money by producing goods that are sale to the public through joint ventures with prisons and businesses. This money is taxed.
They also participate in highway cleanup and roadwork labour etc but I don't know if they are paid as such for this or its seen as community service..But obviously it does save the state funds in terms of having to pay regular citizens..

But I do agree that if you wouldn't be eligible for the surgery as a regular citizen, then inmates shouldn't be able to. Does anyone know if because this is a medical condition that the state would pay for this type of surgery?

I do know that in many provinces in Canada, Sex Reassignment Surgery is partially or fully covered due to it being listed as a medically necessary procedure.

Again, just throwing thoughts out there...
post #21 of 24
As far as I am concerned in this case, work for the money to pay for it yourself, but in general terms of Loveysmummy's questions:

Quote:
In 2003 the department changed its approval policy for sex-change operations, because the medical community determined medication and psychotherapy were as effective as surgery to treat the condition.

Now the agency insists that patients try less costly and less severe interventions before it would approve a sex-change operation.

"We're not saying we don't cover this anymore," Porter said. "We're saying the conditions under which we would authorize these much more expensive surgical procedures are much tighter."
They have paid for it before on medicaid, but only with a state appointed panel of 5 psychiatrists that it was medically and psychologically neccessary (at least in the case I read about) which was in Washington. It also states that the they underwent an audit not long after and there was public outcry after many people sat on the waiting list for simpler treatments while almost $10k was paid for the sex change operation.

It also varies a lot state to state from what I read.
post #22 of 24
i saw the title of this, and said to steve i dont want my tax dollars paying for it. more power to ya if you want that. but if you killed someone and are in prison you dont have the right to it. period.
post #23 of 24
There had been many, many animal studies showing that castration would reduce violence and aggression in males.

Personally I don't have a problem with the State paying for castration. A sex change, however, is a totally different matter. He definitely should pay for the hormones and at least 75% of the procedures by himself.
post #24 of 24
Yeah he needs to be castrated alright but not by a surgeon!! Perhaps old Loranna Bobbet could find a job. Just kidding. Really I don't think it matters if he has the sex change or not, he will still be someones girlfriend in prison.
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