Open discussion for Breeders

I'd like to get some opinions from the folks on this forum, breeders and pet owners alike, about the who, why, what's and what not's of cat breeding.

Just looking through the forum, I'm amazed at how many people just allow their cats to breed indiscriminately, having no clue how to deal with kittens and the potential problems that can arise. It's really pretty alarming.

IMO domestics should not be bred at all. There is no control factor what-so-ever to document genetic problems, health issues, inbreeding, etc. Time and time again I see threads about sick domestic cats and domestics with personality issues. These sorts of problems are rare with breed cats that come from ethical breeders.

So.....why breed cats at all?

Who should be breeding cats?

What is the goal and end result desired by breeding cats?


IMO...again.....

I think it's important to save each breed cats' unique traits and personalities. This can only be done by people who are very knowledgable about the specific breeds and have done the research, spent the time learning and have been entrenched in the cat fancy.

I think the only people who should be breeding cats are those that are committed to constantly improving the breed. The point of breeding is to strengthen the lines, not to make kittens to sell. Those that call themselves breeders, but do not show their cats and don't diversify their lines, are just making kittens. People that have a pair of whole pedigree'd cats that mate and make litters of kittens, are nothing more than backyard breeders in my opinion. I don't think you can call yourself an ethical breeder unless you have a program in place where you have several queens and studs from different lines with carefully planned matings that will produce kittens that exceed the standards their parents met. This should be the goal at all times.

As a bengal breeder, I know there is a big demand from the public for bengal kittens, but that doesn't mean I'm going to just breed any queen to any stud to make a litter to sell. I'm dedicated to the improvement of this breed and I carefully select who breeds with whom. My thought is always......will this mating result in kittens that look better than the parents? Will I be able to show at least one kitten from this litter? Will I be able to keep at least one kitten back from this litter as a "better" stud or queen than the parents?
If the answer no....no mating will take place.

I've just skimmed the surface here with my opening comments on this subject.
I hope this thread will generate some interesting debate and discussion.....so please jump in with your thoughts.

And that is what makes you a knowledgable, ethical, responsible breeder.
The ones who breed and know nothing and do it to make money are the ones ruining the name for the breeders such as yourself. Those are the backyard breeders and even the woops my cat got out before I got her fixed kind. I am not a breeder and I know that there are some really great breeders out there. But for every good one there are dozens of bad ones, the designer cat breeders and dogs too, man designer dogs just make me mad. now there is a magazine for them too! hehe anyway, not to rant but I think breeding should be more restricted and there should be more rules and regulations. Maybe special licenses or animal control people who could go after and punish the backyard breeders a little more. I also think that cats shouldn't be sold as breeders unless it is to someone they mentored or someone who they work with closely and are helping to start a breeding program and I also think that cats sold from breeders should be spayed and neutered (not just signing a contract to do so or promising to) since there are so many people who figure that since they got their cats from a breeder and it is purebred that automatically it should be bred to any other cat and sold for a ton of money since it is pure. Like I see ads in the paper all the time for people selling their "purebred" animals who aren't fixed because they would make great breeders and bring in a lot of money for someone. rrgg that stuff makes me mad!

I don't think anyone should breed cats on purpose. Someone on these boards recently said something to insinuate that every cat that is born causes another one to die...but also that if you are a breeder then its okay. That makes no sense to me at all. Purebred cats are cats, so does each one of their births cause another cat to die too?

I have been against breeding of animals since I was in elementary school, of my own accord (not because my parents think so, not because my teachers told me so) because breeding animals for certain characteristics causes health problems. Directly causes them. The problem is worse with dogs, possibly because there are more irresponsible dog breeders.

As a responsible breeder, I'm sure you are well aware of this and have taken steps to try to strengthen the breed and better the health problems, genetic testing, etc. However there are breeds whose characteristics that are bred for cause, directly, their health problems, such as dogs or cats with shortened faces having significant breathing problems. IMO, breeding these breeds is cruel.

Also I'm not sure that alot of the people who buy purebred animals should really have pets because they tend to view them all as accessories. And are really snotty about them, thinking that for some reason since they paid as much for their pet as I would for a car that it's better than my moggy. I've even sensed this insulting attitude among some of the breeders on this board (not you, Kai, and not anyone who posts very much) that when someone has a cat with a behavioral issue or something its because its not purebred because with a purebred you can "predict" behavior. All I can say is every stray tabby I've ever had or lived with has been more loving and affectionate than any purebred I've ever seen.

That said, I have nothing personally against anyone who chooses to breed and does so responsibly, and I have no desire to start a personal argument over it either. You may notice that I've never said anything on the subject until it was specifically asked. My comments above have been directed at nobody in particular and are my humble opinion on breeding, in general, not you or the way you do things. I know most of you find good homes where the pets are treated like family, do everything you can to avoid causing medical problems, etc. Reading what some of you have written about your breeding programs has softened my opinion of purposeful breeding, but not changed it in general.

I have just started in the breeding area and believe me did a few years of hard research before even thinking of mating and producing purebred kittens. My husbands Aunt has been in the cat business for over 40 years, showing her beautiful persians. She decided to stop breeding when other breeders(and the standard) changed and they wanted the poor babies heads to be flatter and flatter, and their faces to be more and more mushed. It effects their breathing and their eating, and their thinking processes.

Needless to say. I am NOT breeding persians. I am breeding Scottish Folds. There are a lot of issues with folds and being careful to choose the sire with your queen. Deformity is a huge issue in some large catteries because of interbreeding and fold to fold breeding. The bones in the babies can fuse causing a usually fatal condition. If not fatal, then the kitten is disabled for its lifetime.

I have choosen very carefully for the first mate for my little girl. He is a Master Grand Champion(international) with lineage that can be traced back for over 6 generations.

My little girl also has her mother and her father that are Master Grands, and can show lineage for over 5 generations.

I guess IMO if you are very very particular, and are only breeding to obtain loving pets, or show cats, and dont breed to alter the line so that a health issue comes about, then you should be fine in your breeding.
All my cats that are not purebred are spayed and neutered. Even my Persian who IS a purebred has been spayed. She is beautiful and will just be shown as a HHP in CFF.

I will wait until Bethany (my long haired fold) is almost 2 before breeding her, and her mate is already picked out from a long line of MGC Brittish Shorthairs.

Ok, so I rambled on, but that..is my opinion on this subject.

Thanks!! You are all GREAT on here, I love it!

Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

I don't think anyone should breed cats on purpose. Someone on these boards recently said something to insinuate that every cat that is born causes another one to die...but also that if you are a breeder then its okay. That makes no sense to me at all.

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I think that may have been me that you are refering to, and I think my point may have been lost. Every pedigree kitten that's born is ultimately one in a shelter that dies, and I don't think that's disputed. While someone who wants a Manx might only look for a purebred Manx, there is a tailess cat in a shelter that won't find a home as a result. My meaning by that is that people need to take breeding very seriously and realize that there is a cause and effect to breeding - and thereby not produce kittens just to do so or to make some cash. Not that it is okay to breed just because they're purebred animals, but that the knowledge of shelter cats should weight on people when they decide to have any kind of litter.

As for the top of this thread, I think breeding should be done to preserve something worth keeping around. I don't agree with a lot of this designer dog/cat thing that's so popular now - there are too many animals like "british bobtails" and "labradoodles" that are ending up in shelters, not to mention that by definition these are stray cats with high price tags and any shelter in the world would have similar cats for little to no cost.

Also, "improving" a breed and changing it has become one in the same from what I've observed. I don't personally see a reason to change any breed after the standard has been set unless there is a genetic issue involved with a certain trait. For instance, if someone likes a certain feature and works their entire career to define that feature, great! - but if it isn't in the breed standard I don't see it as fair to the other breeders to have to change to one person's liking. I've heard of it being done several times, several people like a certain type of non-breed standard head or whatnot, so they get together and change the standard - then the people breeding the correct head are suddenly being faulted because some other people liked something different.

I agree with the points that have already been made.
There are too many people that feel if they have a pedigreed cat, that should automatically give them the right to breed. In our newspaper, we have many ads of unpapered "purebreds" being sold for $100-$200, and claiming the offspring is also breed quality. I have noticed that many of these types of people only breed a couple of years, before they figure out that it is either too much work or too little money.
We also have breeders who don't mark the box "not for breeding" with signature, which gives anyone who purchases a kitten from them the right to breed, if they so choose.
I still believe that anyone who says that money can be made in breeding is very wrong, or doing something wrong.
I don't feel I have the right to judge breeders who don't practice early altering, but I do feel that it is the best thing for the kittens and future pet owners. I think if pediatric spay and neutering becomes more the normal practice, then possibly it will cut down on the people who breed for the "one or two litters".
I have been breeding Ragdolls for about 3 years now. It is a constant learning process. I am very excited as a current breeding has produced a show/breeding quality female, and for the first time a kitten in my own cattery prefix will be going to another breeding program. This kitten got the best of his Mom and Dad, and my mentors agree that this kitten will do well in exibition. This is my first breeder kitten to ever leave our home in the 3 years we have been breeding. I am very excited, that finally the work I have begun is starting to prove itself. The kitten is going to a very experienced breeder, who has RW lines, and has worked very hard to maintain (or improve) breed standard.
I have been approached by people beginning to breed, or still newbie breeders, hoping for a breeding cat. I politely turn them down, and refer them to my mentor, who would be able to take on the task of mentoring, and helping to choose the best kitten for their program. I do look forward to one day helping to mentor someone, but I don't believe that my eye is trained enough yet, or that I have enough experience at this time.
I also believe that if a person decides to breed, they should also do rescue work with that breed. I have changed a few peoples minds that have came to me for a kitten, and helped them to find a Ragdoll or Ragdoll wanna-be in rescue. I think that is great!
There probably isn't much that infuriates me more than seeing people mix two breeds on purpose, because they like the looks, temperament, ect. of it. It even angers me more, when these people won't research breeding, or the specific health problems associated with each breed.
As Kai mentioned, there is a high demand for certain breeds, and I do believe many breeders will take advantage of this, and will breed any cat whether it is quality or not, so they can get as many kittens out the door and money in hand as they can.
I could go on and on about the good and bad of breeding.

I feel I can and will improve my lines, not only in seeing them fit into breed standard, but health, and temperament improved. I also screen my cats to the fullest ability and will spay or neuter any breeding cat that proved to have even the slightest of problems.
I have 2 queens now, that will have only been bred once, that proved not to be correct in our breeding program, their lines won't be kept to go back into our program. Some have said, why would you retire that perfectly good breeding cat, you haven't had a chance to make your money back. Each cat has a different issue, and IMO will not maintain or improve my lines, so I feel I am making a wise decision. Will I be more in debt breeding than I was, , Yep, but to me it is worth it. Thankfully, my husband agrees and helps to make decisions equally in our breeding program.

I see merit to breeding pedigreed cats in order to keep the interesting characteristics. However, sometimes I feel like breeders go to far with creating new breeds. So, we have Bengals. I'm fine with those. But then there's also Ocicats, Savanahs, Chausies, Safaris...How far does this go? There's just so many random breeds. And every new mutant gene makes another breed. Like that new breed with the ringed tail. It's just ridiculous. I see merit to preserving cats that have geographical/cultural signficance (siamese, main coons, turkish vans, abys), and I'll even through in a few human created breeds or mutated breeds, like Bengals or Scottish Folds. But it seems like enough is enough.

As far as BYB, we have a real cultural problem. I just visited a friend who told me she had a siamese. She said it was the son of her previous female siamese, who she bred to another siamese. As if that isn't bad enough, the cat is OBVIOUSLY not pure siamese. Yes, it was pointed. It also had white spots. Not even mits, but random leg spots, white belly, and white cheeks. She sold the kittens to the pet store as purebreds. Then, she tells me how she has to keep her male chiuaua(sp?) away from her female lab. "Why don't you get them fixed?" "Well, my friend wants to breed the male to her female, and I want to breed the lab. She's AKC registered, so we can make a lot of money off the puppies..." Let me explain also that the lab is dumb and jumpy (6 years), and the chiuaua has a horrible temperment. She has one fixed dog, who is only fixed because she already had a liter...the thing is, she thinks this is acceptable because the dogs are all AKC registered...that means that SOME breeder let out a pet without fixing them first. I guess that's my big issue; breeders don't fix their pet animals. I think the registeries should be more firm about who can claim a registered animal. Maybe the breeder of the kittens/puppies can't claim registry unless they meet a code of ethics or something.

It just angers me.

Well, I think everyone here knows how I feel about breeding and births by now...

I don't think we should be bringing any kittens into the world at this point. Any. Really, until we solve the problem of all the existing cats who are living destitute lives due to our vanity and irresponsibility, we have absolutely no business breeding new ones. I say this a lot: my dream cat is a blue-pont ragdoll or a look-alike, but I won't own one in this lifetime. Because of the damage we people have done, WE are the ones responsible for fixing it. Adopting older standard breed domestics with behavioral or medical issues making them hard to adopt is therefore close to my heart. It's a labor of love. And yes, you're darn skippy we have a cultural issue. People are selfish and irresponsible and unaccountable and flakey and vain and unable to commit to things, and that's why we have the issues we do. Adopt your cat from a shelter or rescue it, keep your cat inside, make sure its fixed, and make sure that you keep that cat for its whole lifetime come hell or high water.

Yes, I wish all breeders would rescue 3 sheter cats for every kitten they birth. Yes, I wish everyone with an accidentally pregnant cat would spay. And as much as this is really making me sort of hated around these parts, I can't really change my position. I see far too much carnage to do that. And I think if more people spent time doing what I do and seeing what I see, they'd think differently.

My cats are my kids. Most people want to have kids of their own, and not adopt them. I want to decide myself what kind of cat will be my kid for the next 20 years, and not forced to just take any sad case because other people are so irresponsible. I'm happy there are responsible breeders around who can provide me with a healthy and social cat which looks nice too. My cats are all fixed, will never leave us and are provided with all the love and care they need. I donate to several cat-related charities and am registered with the shelter to foster motherless kittens (have yet to get the first). I can't see why I (or responsible breeders) should be held responsible for the problems other people created. Why some people are even arguing that responsible breeding of these wonderful breeds should be abandoned. Yeah right, let's only have irresponsible breeders, because it is not going to make them stop. Doesn't sound so good to me. There seems to be a higher standard when breeding purebreds, breeders and owners of these cats help this info get to more and more people which will only help to improve standards for mixed breeds too.

I own two purebreds, and it offends me that some people say that two shelter cats must've died because of that. I wasn't adopting a cat because I wanted any cat, we created additional places in our home for a Somali and a Birman because we wanted to have those breeds so much. I just don't get the same feeling looking at british shorthairs, orientals or moggies. Not a question of snobbery, but of different tastes. The problem is not that there are too many cats (how can there ever be ) but that there are not enough good homes. There are people who don't like pets, there are people who'd rather just have birds or dogs, and there are people who'd rather just have purebreds. There is not a shortage of homes for purebreds (at least not in this country), there is a shortage of homes for mixed breeds. These worlds seem to be rather seperate, the area where they meet (BYB) is something no (informed) animal lover wants something to do with. But it is a waste of energy to fulminate against people who have purebreds, because the problem does not lie there. The problem is that there is a shortage of homes for mixed breeds, and nothing is going to change that unless less of them are bred. Hauling purebred cats into it is just confusing the subject and directing your energy at the wrong people.

If you want a mixed breed, there are enough of them available, no need to breed your own. So adopt one from a shelter instead of from a private person with a litter of kittens. You don't want to encourage those people into thinking they can/should breed more because someone will give their kittens a good home anyhow. Spay and neuter your pets.
If you want a purebred, get it from a responsible breeder who thinks health and temperament are most important. Spay and neuter your pets.
If you are a breeder, don't sell kittens to just anyone, use a contract for breeding rights and/or early alter. If selling cats for breeding, sit down with the buyer and make sure this person knows what he/she is doing first.

Mimosa, I do have to disagree with you on the 'not too many cats' comment - there are more cats than there are homes, just one of the rescues near me has 250 cats - and that is cos it is their limit. Another has over 50 ferals, the charity I foster for is only small and has about 10 in at the mo, and don't know what the other one has. I am not sure about not breeding pedigrees till it is sorted though, as that means a lot of breeds will die out. I did have to shout at my comp yesterday as someone from another forum has been offered two 'Burmapuras' - her Singapura got at her Birman before she realised she was heat - IMO that just makes them moggies. I do think paediatric (sp) neuter and spay is the way to go, it is just quite rare in the UK - but the shelter that has the ferals neuter all kittens and puppies at 8 weeks old, so there is at least one vet that does.

Originally Posted by booktigger

Mimosa, I do have to disagree with you on the 'not too many cats' comment - there are more cats than there are homes, just one of the rescues near me has 250 cats - and that is cos it is their limit. Another has over 50 ferals, the charity I foster for is only small and has about 10 in at the mo, and don't know what the other one has. I am not sure about not breeding pedigrees till it is sorted though, as that means a lot of breeds will die out. I did have to shout at my comp yesterday as someone from another forum has been offered two 'Burmapuras' - her Singapura got at her Birman before she realised she was heat - IMO that just makes them moggies. I do think paediatric (sp) neuter and spay is the way to go, it is just quite rare in the UK - but the shelter that has the ferals neuter all kittens and puppies at 8 weeks old, so there is at least one vet that does.

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Uhhm, I'm sure if I just flat out said there are too much mixed breeds someone would have told me I'm a snob or something because I don't say the same thing about purebreds (who have partly overlapping but mostly different groups interested in them), so I put it differently by stating there are not enough good homes for all mixed breeds. Did you read that last part ?

The Birmapura thing IMO falls under BYB, (unless both parents were tested breeding animals and they got around the breeders precautions, these things happen)

Thanks for everyone's comments and insights. Clearly a touchy subject and we won't all be on the same page about it.

Bab-ush-niik, I agree completely with your "cultural problem" remark and honestly I don't ever see it being fixed. No pun intended.
I also agree that some limits need to be placed on man-made breeds. I'm just not sure what sort of limits and it would be hypocritical of me to say no more new breeds when the very cat I breed is only 30 years in the making. Not sure what the ultimate solution should be. Just to let you know, the Ocicat isn't in the hybrid group you mentioned. That breed has no wild blood and was a naturally produced mutation. Originating from interbreeding of Abyssinian, Siamese and American Shorthair.

Mihoshi, you are right about "improving a breed and changing it has become one in the same". I have observed this as well. Siamese and Persians come to mind. In the case of bengals though, the breed is only 30 years old and breeders are still striving for the perfect bengal. So in my case there is opportunity and obligation to reach that goal.

Mimosa, I'm glad you feel the way you do and I'm glad you posted here. Nearly everyone that owns a breed cat feels the way you do about their own cats.

FamilytimeRags, didn't your Mentor tell you up front you'd be in debt up to eyeballs by starting a breeding program?

Seriously folks the only people who make any profit from breeding pedigree'd cats are the ones only have 3 or 4 cats that they breed over and over again.
These people aren't even thinking of bloodlines and meeting breed standards.
Their cats are just revenue makers. Unfortunately there are lots of bengal "breeders" out there who do this.

If I may, I'd also like to raise a question that I believe I've asked before. YES, undoubtably, there are more cats than homes available and too many irresponsible people on both sides of the breeding fence (pedigree and stray). But here is where I'm saddened by some of your comments:

The breed I work with is one that has existed almost as long as written history. I'm just not okay with hearing that no cats should ever breed - then we would ultimately give up all the breeds that have been around longer than ourselves. Why then, do most people put all the negativeness towards pedigree breeders and not hold the stray/accidential breeders to the same standard? They aren't doing it for money, or standard, or anything - it's just from pure laziness or lack of funding to spay/neuter. So, instead of pointing the finger at breeders of purebred cats (because surely we all can agree that there aren't nearly as many pedigree felines in shelters as there are moggies), why don't people focus that energy into promoting the responsible ownership of all cats? If every breeder stops breeding, you'll still have a million strays that will never cease to produce, and ultimately the shelters will become more and more crowded because these breedings are the majority of the problem.

I just believe it would be a thousand times more effective if people and groups stopped saying the overpopulation is A's fault and B's fault, and instead went with Everyone needs to do their part to help lower the pet overpopulation.

Well said, Mihoshi.

Originally Posted by Mihoshi

I just believe it would be a thousand times more effective if people and groups stopped saying the overpopulation is A's fault and B's fault, and instead went with Everyone needs to do their part to help lower the pet overpopulation.

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I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm honestly curious.

How, as someone who breeds cats, are you (collective, not just you specifically) doing your part to lower pet overpopulation? Because to me, there are only a very few ways: spay and neuter all animals before placement or immediately upon rescue (which I'm sure any responsible breeder makes sure everyone gets S/N before leaving) and committing oneself to an animal for its entire lifespan in order to keep from adding to those who need homes either because they were surrendered, abandoned, born, reitred, etc. The wya I see it, is if there's a problem with overpopulation, there's just no way you can justify bringing more lives into the world.

I''ve said it before. My main beef is ALWAYS with irresponsible pet parents who don't commit to their animals for life and don't spay and neuter, and on a board like this, there's really very few people who would come to the defense of the vile people that abandon their animals or dump them off at shellters. But I just don't see how, given that we have a problem that's reached massive pandemic proportions, any new lives can be justified. I would never, ever, ever accuse any of our responsible breeders of mistreating their animals or not giving them the absolute best in care and being EXCELLENT pet gaurdians. My discomfort is with the ethics of bringing in new lives.

Thank you very much Rapunzel.

I have worked in shelters and had to look innocent animals in the eyes while they go to die from lack of a home. I've also seen doberman puppies dumped because the breeder decided to crop their ears with a kitchen knife and horribly messed the pups up. There are so many horror stories on each side, it's truly unbelievable. And it's a heavy load on your heart.

I'm sorry to say that I can't speak for everyone, but I do personally spay/neuter every cat that is born in my home - I've known many a shelter who does not do the same. It is a rarity when I don't suggest that the new owner adopts a stray if they don't already own other cats. I truly feel for the shelter cats, probably more than I can convey here. My home also stays open to take back in any cat should a problem ever arise. I am willing to pay shipping fees, or even buy back the cat so that I can make sure he/she has a happily ever after. I take it as seriously as I know how. Unforunatley, overpopulation is a part of life for everything, few creatures are genetically made to produce one offspring per parent. I am a very big advocate for international adoption as well, and China is a prime example of human overpopulation. Right now there are millions of little girls being left on street corners because the Chinese are now only allowed to have 1 child per couple and culture demands a boy. Back in the "good old days" a young girl could be sold as a slave for cash, but now that isn't allowed with their overpopulation problem, so girls, and any children with defects, are abandoned. This country is trying to use a similar method of population control as some are suggesting here, and it isn't working. Spaying/neutering all cats will lead to a similar situation of black market breeding and abandoning, which will only worsen the problem long term. Also, if we alter every cat out there, there won't be any at all in 20 years! Some of you will suggest cloning, but this will be expensive and will ultimately lead to the same ending that we have right now - it only delays the inevitable.

It is impossible for overpopulation not to happen over time. Steps should be taken to help slow and reverse the process, and I'll never say otherwise, but it will never realistically disapear completely. All we can do is try to set a goal and move towards it, and exterminating purebreds is just not a good solution long term

My one true hope for the future of the feline world is that shelter/rescue workers and pedigree breeders can learn to be more friendly and understanding of each other. Each side has it's own issues and pain, and both are very valid; but if these two groups would truly mesh together in their efforts as feline lovers, I think the amount of good that would result would be so much more than any one of us could imagine. We can play the blame game until we turn blue, but the problem at hand won't change until a feesable solution is thought up and exicuted with as much man power as possible.

A couple of points:

There will always be people that want a breed cat over a domestic because of certain traits a breed cat will have. This is not to say that one is better than the other. It will always be a personal preference. Some people like short hair over long hairs as well. Some folks like bald cats, some like calico's best.

The irresponsible pet owners will never go away. For every one of them that becomes educated and changes their thinking, another will come along to replace them. As kids become adults and want their own pet, some of them will not take it seriously. These folks are dumping their cats, allowing their cats to breed, etc.

Some people will get a free kitten because it's cute. When the novelty wears off, they dump it or hand it off to a shelter.

It's extremely rare to see a breed cat in the hands of a shelter.

So.......since the breeding of pedigree'd cats will continue, what are breeders doing to assure their kittens are going to responsible committed owners?

We screen new owners thoroughly. They are made to sign a purchase contract and a spay/neuter agreement. Follow-ups are done well after the kitten has gone on to it's new home. Part of the purchase contract explains that kittens must be returned to the breeder if there is any reason why the new owner must surrender the cat. No cats are to be put in shelters or rescues.
Safeguards like these ensure that our cats go to permanent homes and in the unlikely event that the new owner can't comply with their commitment, the cat comes back to us. This effectively keeps every kitten in our "system".

As a purebreed owner( from a shelter) a true domestic and a former feral with a cross of bengal likely.... I have a view point of

I should if I want have a purebreed ... In 28 years of animal ownership , I have had five purebred animals ... of those two were shelter , two were breeder( not back yard since s/n was required but not pros) and one was found since a breeder wasnt responsible enough to keep them in .... I have also had many more mutts or halfsies from either opps breeding or shelters...

My trouble currently is how many ferals and how to trap and s/n them all ... I think this is a HUGE issue that at least where I live is not getting much attention....

I know there is a huge over population and do and will continue to rescue .... I will also state that I will own purebred animals as I like the traits and do like to know what I am getting .... My last two shelter animals were not what I went for but I LOVE them more than anything....

There are ways to reduce populations but most people I think are looking at the wrong end of it ....

I do not believe that purebred cat don't end up in shelters because it's not true. Maybe you're saying that yours don't but you can't actually guarantee that either-- yes, you say you'll take them back but not everyone is going to call you instead of dumping it because they'll be afraid you'll be mad at them or they're embarrassed or whatever else. Unless you personally check on every cat you've ever bred at least once a year you can make no claims that every cat you've ever placed is still in its forever home because you don't know. Making someone sign a contract does probably help a little but if you think none of your cats have ever ended up in a shelter you're in denial or else just being naive. I'm sure its painful to think about, but that's part of purposefully breeding cats. Purebred cats do end up in shelters. Often, when you look at "Available for adoption" pages you will see one or two-- but even more often if you look at the "Recently adopted" pages you will see even more. It's not that they aren't ending up there, it's that they get adopted faster. Why else would breed rescues exist at all?

My biggest problem with it is that is the same breath as saying that people without purebreds should have them spayed even if they've accidentally gotten pregnant-- and there are good people who really do have accidents, like falling out of a screened window, etc-- you say that you have a right to breed cats continually and on purpose because of what the cats look like and sometimes act like. Maybe I just can't wrap my head around the idea of a certain type of genes making a cat inherently better. You know, if we applied that idea to humans, what would it be called? To me, every cat is beautiful and every cat deserves a good home, and purposefully breeding them precludes it.

I'm not really sure of the point of this discussion though, because nobody's going to change their mind. I know none of you are going to stop breeding.

My shelter experience is that they will lie and call a cat a purebred this or half that - and it's simply a guess. I have no doubt that there are purebreds that end up there, but comparitavely, it's a very small piece of the pie. I do regularly keep in touch with my owners. I try to befriend each one to the best of my ability before adopting a kitten to them - sometimes the contact is sparse, but there are a large percentage of owners that I hear from monthly or more.

I can't speak for everyone, I wish I could. I'm also not fully following your logic in the second paragraph. Accidents will always happen, life will always happen - but too much of it is from irresponsibility. As strays are the majority of the unwanted cats, special care should be shown to promote altering strays. Saying to wipe out all purebreds isn't going to solve the problem.