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Atheist sues Catholic Church for proof of Jesus

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
I am most surprised that it is NOT in the US. It's in Italy! The video is at http://www.cnn.com/. What is this guy thinking!!!!
post #2 of 13
What ridiculousness! That's exactly the same as a Catholic suing him to prove that Jesus doesn't exist. He's giving his religion a bad name.

The point of religion is that you can't prove it. It isn't science. It isn't supposed to be proven. Duh. Plus, he's not going to convince anyone of anything except that he's crazy. Good work! (sarcasm is fun!)

What a nut. He isn't even suing for something productive, like removing religion from government or for freedom of religion or something. I wonder what his real motivation is.
post #3 of 13
It's probably the same idea where some people give christians a bad name (i.e. those that boycotted the funeral a couple of months ago).
Every town needs its fool. I guess this guy is the one for Athiests.
post #4 of 13
This imbecile is doing what everybody seems to be doing, attacking the Christian faith, because Christians believe in forgiveness (I am not Christian). Let this moron show how brave he is and sue the leaders of Iran or Pakistan for proof of Mohammed. See how long he would last when the followers of the "religion of peace" got hold of him. What a bunch of crap. Now every tiny minority thinks it is their divine right on earth to oppose the beliefs of the majority, and then impose their minority beliefs on everybody else. If somebody lost this fool in the woods, the world would be a better place.
post #5 of 13
The sad thing is that just as Muslims and Christians are painted with the same fundamentalist brush as the idiots who give their religion a bad name, this idiot will paint all atheists with the same brush in the eyes of the majority. Well, this one and the one in California who wants God removed from everything in the US. What ever happened to Live and Let Live? Seriously, I don't have to believe the same thing you do and we can still live perfectly happy lives. Believe whatever it is that will get you through this life.
post #6 of 13
Well, I mean, I won't say the pledge of allegiance until they restore it to the original version. I simply stand politely with my arms at my sides. I don't make a scene, I know it means a lot to most people, but I'm not pledging my allegiance to God and I was never supposed to. I also don't think that religious items of any faith should be in public, municipal buildings on display (such as town hall, courts, etc). However, I have no problem with stuff like public Christmas tree lightings and such, because you don't have to go there. Court you often have to go to. Is this guy in Cali trying to make them stop selling bibles at walmart or what, like is he saying no churches?

SBW, alot of Christians are just as intolerant as alot of any other religion (and anybody else). I don't think the fact that they're Christian has anything to do with it aside from the fact that he's in Italy and that is the religion with the power to influence society. He'd do the same I bet if the Moors had won and expanded instead and Italy was Islamic. He is wrong to impose his beliefs on everybody. I just wish nobody felt the need to impose their beliefs on anybody ever, majority or no. Which I think we all so far have agreed on.
post #7 of 13
This is just plain silly. Relatively few things in life are able to be proved.

Incidentally, though, we have more evidence for the existence of Jesus as a historical figure than we do for all but about 3 other people who lived around that time - and those people were Roman emperors! There are basically no historians who dispute that Jesus of Galilee was a real person.
post #8 of 13
I didn't realize atheists had a religion, do they?

Very sad that the latest craze seems to be bashing the Christians when all Christ wants is to give all people salvation.
post #9 of 13
Atheism is most definitely a religion. Most people confuse it with agnosticism, which is a whole different thing. http://www.atheists.org/ and more. Funny, they say : "Is bashing Atheism a new national past-time?"

"Very sad that the latest craze seems to be bashing the Christians when all Christ wants is to give all people salvation."

The lastest craze has been around as long as Christianity has. And it happens to every and any religion ever. And Jesus Christ's philosophical views and the Church this guy is suing have very little to do with each other at all, especially in practice.
post #10 of 13
I agree with most of what Zissou is saying. Atheists are given a very bad rap and people see them as something completely different from what they are.

I do have to say it's quite insane to sue for proof of Jesus. If there really was no Jesus, then that is the problem of Christianity, not Atheists - and as it's something they don't believe in, I really don't see it as their place to ask for proof. Personally, I think Jesus was a real person, whether he rose from the dead or was the son of God is not my place to decide. Many religions do recognize Jesus, the Muslims see Jesus as a great profit of Allah - only second to Muhammad himself. Jesus was said to have been a friend of Buddha and similar messages can be seen in both religions. BTW, I do have a minor in Classic and World Religions, so I'm not just pulling everything out of the air.

I have several close friends who are good people that are Athiest and Pegans (sp?) who are constantly judged poorly just for their personal beliefs. Now, having said that, I think a common problem with the typical Atheist is that they feel the need to tell every other religion why they're "wrong" and thereby offer themselves up for greater persecution. My belief is that if it works for you, then do it, but please don't force it onto someone else.

I consider myself a Shinto-Buddhist, and it does make me upset when someone comes and tells me I need to get to church before I burn in Hell, or, as one man very rudely said, "Buddha didn't die for you, Jesus did!" That does not help promote the brotherly love that Christianity and Jesus is supposed to be about - that's next to terrorism! I don't go up to people with crosses and tell them that I think they're full of it, but if someone asks me to take a free Bible, I try to respectfully decline - which always leads to the shouting of "what kind of Christian are you!?!" or "if you died tonight would you go to Heaven?" I am afraid to address my religion in public most of the time because that sort of reaction is a very common one around here, there is no tolerence for the "different" - I've been followed through Wal-Mart by people telling me how awful I am for turning Christ out of my heart. That's fine to me if they feel that way, but I don't see the need to verbally harass me aisle after aisle because I do not believe what they do.

Zissou, I suspect that you've had some of the same in your life time as we live in the same state.
post #11 of 13
Oh, do I! I also live near a college, which happens to have a Jehovah's Witnesses church nearby. I've been handed so many pieces of paper telling me I'm going to hell I started a collection one semester and ended up with dozens of different ones!

I was raised United Methodist. Fortunately for me, it is a church which encourages skepticism and experiencing different things as a part of your faith. I have been to services of Orthodox and Reformed Jewish temples, Korean methodist churches, Eastern Orthodox, Mexican Catholic (in Mexico), Unitarian Universalist, Hindi temple, informal Buddhist services, Roman Catholic, Irish Catholic, every denomination of protestantism I've ever heard of. I'm not Christian but if anything that's why I stayed so long. I'm not atheist either but if any of the people who yell at you with bullhorns or otherwise loudly and intrusively proselytize I would never admit to believing in anything (for one because what I do believe is scarier to them than just not believing, and for another it's none of their business).

This is why I defend the atheist, in part, although the way this particular Italian guy is going about things is the worst way to do it. I hold most public beliefs that atheists do, just not the personal ones. Religion has no place in government, no place in public schools, and no place in the law. They are supposed to be totally separate. This is not the same as saying nobody should hold those beliefs, but if not having your kid pray in school is threatening your faith that's the least of your problems.

At the same time, Atheists and others who feel the same way as I do without necessarily being atheist should also remember that we have no place dictating someone else's faith whatsoever. We don't want other people's ideas based on religion affecting our lives, why should our ideas based on religion affect theirs? What I want is mutual respect, as in, we keep our faith and religion to ourselves in public and do whatever we want in private. Most Americans do this very well every day. Some, on both sides, do not. This man in Italy is one of the ones who does not. Please remember though, all the crazy, overzealous people who share your faith, whatever it may be, who think that everyone in the world must believe the same thing they do or else they're wrong, when you judge the guy in Italy. He is doing the Atheist equivalent of the people protesting soldiers funerals as Gods punishment for gays.
post #12 of 13
If you look at the lawsuit from an international perspective it's also very interesting. Italy is a majorly religious country - and unlike the USA, many parts of Europe do not share the "seperation of church and state" laws (even though ours aren't always enforced). I'm not an expert on Italy (South East Asia is my territory of knowledge), so I can't say much on the area for certain other than the rumors and stories I hear, but I can only imagine how oppressive this man's life has been in the country where the Vatican resides.

I think it's obvious that he's hoping for more media attention than receiving actual proof of Jesus - quite possibly to help shed light on the oppression of other religions there and attempt to change that in some way. But this would make quite an interesting case study for a report if I were still taking classes in religion or psycology.

The gay thing you mention is also a touchy subject - and I have to put myself up for judgement here by proclaiming that I'm 100% on the gay's side for most every issue. If we keep taking away their rights and making them less and less equal, it won't be long before murdering a gay or lesbian will not be seen as actual murder in the eyes of the law. If you think homosexuality is right or wrong, that's your personal conviction - but honestly, who cares if same sex couples share a kiss in public or a private life together? As long as they aren't sexual soliciting you, then what business is it of anyone else to decide what they can or cannot do? That's like saying you can't marry someone because they are white and you are hispanic, it's just cruel and hateful. If they are damned in Gods eyes, then let them worry about that and everyone else should throw stones at their own glass houses. Doing otherwise just spreads hatred, which is the opposite of what Jesus tried to spread. Jesus was notorious for loving everyone, so I can't imagine that he would cast out so many people who might otherwise be Christian if not for their treatment.

Nobody wants the persecution or social stigma that comes with being gay, and who have they ever hurt to deserve these negativities (other than themselves in the eyes of certain religious groups)?

I suppose I'm going way off topic into another rant *sorry* but it all comes back to keeping your nose in your own book. Maybe this strange man wouldn't be sueing the church if people weren't down his throat on his religious beliefs. I can't say either way, but I'm sure his life hasn't been easy. If you are part of any socially unpopular thing you must either hide yourself completely, or constantly fight tooth and nail to show you are still an equal human being. If we were more open in a positive fashion (as in, "here is our church flyer, all are accepted, come check us out if you'd like, but no presure" - instead of "do as I say or you'll burn") and behave more tolerantly to those we don't agree with, then religion would only prosper and reap the benefits. I hope I've made some sense, I'm not very good at being on a soap box unprepared.
post #13 of 13
Geez some ppl!!
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