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Kittens & Giardia - need advice

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
As I have posted in the kitten care forum, my five 8-week old kittens have Giardia. They are on Metronidazole for 5 days and are having shots of amoxcycillin too.

One of them was more affected than the others but she seems to have perked up.

1) All are eating and drinking
2) All are playing and running about now
3) The one who's third eye was showing - well the third eye doesn't seem to be showing anymore (but every time I write that in a post here, it comes back...so touch wood it doesn't!)
4) Their temperature was normal at the vets
5) Their poop is still a bit loose.

I hope that the first 4 of the above mentioned points are signs that they are on the mend.

I am trying to read as much as I can about Giardia and my vet, although he's a nice guy, just confused me I think. I came back feeling like I didn't know what Giardia was with all his technical talk about 'flagella' what ever that is.

If anyone has gone through Giardia with kittens and has the time to share their experience briefly with me..so I know what to do and get some faith and hope that they will be ok ...please reply or pm me. Thanks.
post #2 of 23
Metronidazole works really well. It does take time for the stools to firm up but it sounds like they are doing well.

Do you know what the source was? I would contact your water company so see if there is low grade giardia in the water. It does occur but usually residents will be notified. Its good to know where they got it though. If its from the water system then I would avoid drinking the water even though a healthy immune system should be fine.
post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 
Hi SolarityBengals - I think the source was Olivia...well her original owner/their water supply!

I have been reading about grapefruit seed extract on various giardia related posts...I think I might try that too...
post #4 of 23
As I posted on the Olivia thread, I have been through this. In our case, it took three courses of metradonizole, and then doxycillin on top of that to get rid of it. But I think my boys had a very bad infection. The good news is that it DOES go away eventually!
post #5 of 23
My kitten is currently taking a 7 day dose of panacur for giardia. We tried the 5 days of metronidazole, but it didn't rid her of the parasite. It can be hard to get rid of, not to mention frustrating. The metronidazole could be causing the soft stools. I know with my kitten, she had soft stools, and diarrhea when she was on it, and has diarrhea constantly now that she is on the panacur. Poor girl is in an x-large dog crate until she is rid of this, as she has a tendancy to step in her stools, and curl her tail when she poos, so she gets it all over her tail, creating quite the smelly mess.

Make sure to keep the food/water dishes clean, fresh water, clean and disinfect the litterpan daily (vet recommended Clorox Anywhere) and if possible clean the kitties bottoms, so if they have any poo on them from the soft stools, they won't clean themselves causing reinfection.

My kitten eats alot but now that she has had diarrhea everyday (6 or more x daily!) the vet told me to only feed her what the bag of food recommends (which is nothing compared to what she normally eats) divided into 2 feedings, morning and night, until the gi tract has time to heal, and her stools firm up. My kitten has had this at least since the beginning of April, so she has been through alot. I was giving my kitten a bit of plain yogurt to help restore the "good bacteria" in her tummy, but the vet told me to stop, as it does have dairy in it which may be contributing to the diarrhea. Since I have been feeding her less, and stopped the yogurt, she has gotten a bit better, but still has diarrhea 1-2x daily, and 1 soft stool daily. Your kitties may do ok with the plain yogurt, or maybe you could get some kind of probiotics to help.

Hang in there. Hopefully this won't be as nasty with you and your kitties, as it has been for us.
post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 
Solarity, Jenny, Sphnyx - thanks for your posts. I am learning a lot from you guys.

We should set up a Giardia support group (LOL)..sorry I am trying to find something to smile about as I have been disinfecting, medicating, feeding, cleaning, travelling to vets all day!

Sphynx- is panacur working for your little girl? I've ordered some in the event the metranidazole doesn't work. Anyway, if the metranidazole does work, I believe I can use the panacur as a wormer in the future. Grapefruit seed extract is recommended for giardia on this forum and the net - have you tried that? If you don't mind Sphynx, is it ok to keep in touch with you from time to time and see if our mutual experiences help one another with our kittens going through this at the same time?
post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by minxie
Solarity, Jenny, Sphnyx - thanks for your posts. I am learning a lot from you guys.

We should set up a Giardia support group (LOL)..sorry I am trying to find something to smile about as I have been disinfecting, medicating, feeding, cleaning, travelling to vets all day!

Sphynx- is panacur working for your little girl? I've ordered some in the event the metranidazole doesn't work. Anyway, if the metranidazole does work, I believe I can use the panacur as a wormer in the future. Grapefruit seed extract is recommended for giardia on this forum and the net - have you tried that? If you don't mind Sphynx, is it ok to keep in touch with you from time to time and see if our mutual experiences help one another with our kittens going through this at the same time?

I only have 1 more day on the panacur, so wish us luck. It's hard to say if it's working because her stools are still soft-diarrhea, but that could be from all the meds she has had to take. She been on the metronidazole, amoxicillin for almost a month, and now the panacur, so her poor tummy has been through alot. If after being off the meds for a few days her stools don't firm up, the vet wants to try a low residue formula food ($22.00 for a 5lb bag!) and see if that helps her stools, if not then they will assume she still has the giardia, and we will try more meds. I appreciate they will give me meds without having to go through multiple (more) fecal exams, as giradia can be hard to detect without more than one fecal done. Just keep an eye on the stools, blood smears can also be a tipoff that the parasite is still present, amongst other things.

I have not tried the grapefruit seed oil, but have heard alot about it. I guess it's a great multi-purpose cleaner, and all natural to boot. I'll have to do a "search" for it on the net, to see where I can get it.

It would be great if you would like to keep in touch. You can PM me anytime. I usually check the site once or twice a day.
post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Thanks Sphynx What is your little girl's name? Is she like my kittens..i.e. run a mile when she sees a thermometer?

Do let me know what the low residue food formula recommended is and I'll do some research on that.
post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by minxie
Thanks Sphynx What is your little girl's name? Is she like my kittens..i.e. run a mile when she sees a thermometer?

Do let me know what the low residue food formula recommended is and I'll do some research on that.
My little girl's name is Lucy (Lucille BALD, ha-ha) and yes, she is like your kitties. I should have named her Speedy, lol. Course now that she has to be crated, she can't get very far. Before we crated her though, she ran if she saw me come near her. I'm the one that has to give her all the meds, that she absolutley hates, especially the metronidazole pills, so she pretty much hates me at this point. We just got her April 1st (she'll be 5 months old on the 25th) and she was ill with a virus, giradia, etc...so it's been very hard to bond since I'm always shoving unwanted meds down her throat. Anyways. that is my sad story, LOL

The food the vet sells is the Eukenuba Low Residue, and the 5lb bag would not last but a few weeks (or less) since Sphynx eat more due to their metabolism. I did do a search, but can't find any other brands that have a low residue formula. Some websites sell it cheaper, but by the time you pay for shipping, the cost is the same, or more expensive. PM me if you find anything.
post #10 of 23
Thread Starter 
Ok I'll let you know if I find anything.

Hugs to Lucy!

I'm giving mine the liquid form of metranidazole with a syringe as I risked losing my fingers when trying to give tablets. The liquid tastes better they say. Once I've dosed them up, I rinse the syringe in their fresh water bowl so they get every bit inside them.

I read on one of the posts on Giardia that someone gave their metranidazole tablet to their cat inside a small piece of cheese and that worked.

However, hopefully Lucy will be ok once off the meds and there will be no need for anymore nasty pills.

What I am concerned about is that they say with humans, resistency to antibiotics decreases with long term use of them. If this applies to cats, I'm a bit worried if this turns out to be a long term treatment thing.

I bought a steam cleaner to disinfect bedding, litter trays, carpets etc.... the steam reaches a temp of 120 degrees celcius. I also boil wash where I can too. I have just read that giardia organisms are killed at 160-180 degrees celcius - this cannot be true!!!!! How can you get 160-180 degrees apart from setting fire to your house?!?
post #11 of 23
Hi,
Just looking in to see how they are doing.
Anne
post #12 of 23
Thread Starter 
Hi Anakat! They are doing good today Firmer stools! Lively! Eating! Noisy! Mischevious! Climbing curtains! AND OLIVIA'S 3RD EYE SEEMS TO HAVE GONE!!!!

However, I am not getting my hopes up too much.....check up at the vet tomorrow with further fecal exams..so we'll see. I'll update once I get back from the vet tomorrow.

I have to say, Olivia seems to be back to her bubbly self. I'm not sure if its more apparent in persian cats, but when they are ill, they look and act sooooo sad and depressed.
post #13 of 23
Just don't do what I did and stop the meds too soon. The boys seemed fine and we stopped dosing htem and then in a couple of days the symptoms returned. It took five weeks in all, of different anti-bacterial drugs to clear it completely.
post #14 of 23
Minxie, I pm'ed you last night, did you get it? Good luck tomorrow! I'll keep an eye on the post for your update.
post #15 of 23
Thread Starter 
I didn't get your message Sphynx - how's Lucy? Any update from the vet?

Its early morning here. The cats have woken me up and demanded breakfast.

They have three days' worth of metranidazole still left to take..I will continure giving them that. However, the panacur I've ordered (privately, not from vet) is arriving today.

1) Should I tell my vet that I have panacur?

2) Do you think I can give them all a dose of panacur at the same time as them taking the metranidazole? Or should I wait until the metranidazole has finished? Or get my vet to make the decision?

Will update this evening once I've seen the vet .....
post #16 of 23
Oh my, I wonder who got the message I sent to you, LOL.

I would not give the panacur before you are done with the metronidazole. There would be no need for it if the metronidazole works, and would be very hard on the tummy. Let the vet know you have it, so if he decides to go with the panacur instead of trying another round of the "metro", then he knows you already have it. I hope you get good results when you go to the vet. Now that I think about it, you won't even see this before you go.

I hope Lucy is finally rid of this, but we'll see. She had her last full dose yesterday, was supposed to be Monday, but there was an extra dose, so I didn't hesitate to give it to her, and rinse the bottle out in her waterdish this morning, LOL. I have to give her a few days now to see if her stools firm up now that she is done with the panacur. If they don't then I try the low residue food, or another type I found by Science Diet that is considerably cheaper, but needs a prescription. If that still doesn't help, then most likely another round of meds for giardia. So far still the same, soft-diarrhea.

Just curious, why does your vet have the fecals done before the meds are gone? As far as I know the cysts are not shed daily, so how does he know unless he sees the cysts, if the "metro" is working or not? Maybe your vet knows something mine doesn't. Lucy had her first fecal done on April 18th, and no cysts (but several symptoms) and another on April 27th when the giradia was finally diagnosed. She hasn't had a fecal since then because my vet considers it a waste, being they never know when the cysts will be shed for sure, and doing a fecal may result in a false negative, when she may still have it. He gives me meds for her, for the giradia, if the other options we have tried to firm up her stools do not work, and she still has other symptoms of it.

Keep me updated. Hope to hear good news from you later!
post #17 of 23
Thread Starter 
Hi Spyhnx -

Fingers crossed for Lucy here. Has she got any other symptoms apart from the soft stools?

The vet check up has been pushed to tomorrow as Hubby had a late work meeting and we couldnt get to the vet in time.

The 5 little ones seem well - eating, playing, lively and if i'm not mistaken, their poop is starting to get a bit more solid.

Thanks for your advice re panacur! Are you going to try the grapeseed fruit extract with Lucy? I have just ordered some...

I am looking into the low residue food thing for you...

The vet is doing the fecal every check up to check the consistency of their stools, and take their temperature. He's not examining the poopy under the microscope each time.
post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by minxie
Hi Spyhnx -

Fingers crossed for Lucy here. Has she got any other symptoms apart from the soft stools?

The vet check up has been pushed to tomorrow as Hubby had a late work meeting and we couldnt get to the vet in time.

The 5 little ones seem well - eating, playing, lively and if i'm not mistaken, their poop is starting to get a bit more solid.

Thanks for your advice re panacur! Are you going to try the grapeseed fruit extract with Lucy? I have just ordered some...

I am looking into the low residue food thing for you...

The vet is doing the fecal every check up to check the consistency of their stools, and take their temperature. He's not examining the poopy under the microscope each time.
Hi Minxie--

Ok, I get it, I thought he was doing fecals every time. I hope he isn't charging for the stool check, is he? I read your other thread about vaccines (I'd also go with the cheaper ones, but another poster had a good point about not giving them the vaccines if they are still ill) and about the charges for them, and I'm hoping this is not just a way to make money for him. To charge you just to look at the consistency of their stools. My vet takes my word for it on Lucy's stools, course there is no mistaking "cow pies" and watery messes. My vet seems to be pretty much going with, if her stools are still not firming up, then she is still infected. I did see some blood smear in her poo before she started her panacur, so that is also a good indicator.

During the course of antibiotics for her virrus/bacterial infection, she perked right up. Before then, all she did was eat, poo, and sleep. She was running around like crazy, nonstop, her appetite increased, basically she turned into a normal kitten, but was indeed infected with giardia. It's sometimes hard to tell just by they way they are "acting" if they are still infected. I do hope, that it does mean your kitties are ridding themselves of this!

About the soft stools, I'd like to mention also, that your kitties may have soft stools because the metronidazole is hard on the tummy, and the stools may not firm up properly until a few days (maybe longer) after they have stopped the meds. So like I said, I hope your vet is not charging you to look at the consistency.

I still have to look into the grapefruit seed extract. But yes, I plan to give it a try. I read a post the other day about some citrus scented cat litter, and that citrus is a kind of cat repelllant (so the cat refused to use the litterbox!) I wonder if that would be so for the grapefruit seed extract, if we cleaned the litterboxes, and such with it??

Let me know how things go tomorrow.
post #19 of 23
Thread Starter 
Good news.....

Leo, Boris, Theo and Amelia all got the all clear at the vet today. Olivia is much better but still has some loose stools. Her 3rd eye has cleared up and in just one week she has gone from 840g to 990g!!! (well done my baby! )

The vet clarified that he did NOT see Giardia cysts when he examined their stools, but saw bacteria. He said he would treat them for giardia as a precaution as they had other symptoms of the condition. The metronidazole, amoxcycillin and worming tablets have worked nevertheless...whatever they had!

I'm continuing Olivia on Flagyl for a few more days and observing her.
post #20 of 23
Glad to here that they are doing well. Time for some more pictures?
Anne
post #21 of 23
I am glad it all seems to be clearing. My boys had to have an extra course of doxicillin on top of severla courses of metradonizole before it all cleared up. I put two drops of grapefruit seed extract in their food for several weeks afterwards too. I don't know if it did any good, but they are certainly fine now.
post #22 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakat
Glad to here that they are doing well. Time for some more pictures?
Anne
I've put some pics on this thread, taken this afternoon.

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...74#post1188374
post #23 of 23
Lovely pictures, they all look fine. I like the little Ginger boys.
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