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i was just wondering...

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
have any of you breeders ever seen a black and white siamese and rag doll mix cat? i recently found out that my 4 yr old baby is just that and he is adorable so have any of you ever seen one of those mixs?
post #2 of 15
Can we see a picture please.
post #3 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by katlady007
have any of you breeders ever seen a black and white siamese and rag doll mix cat? i recently found out that my 4 yr old baby is just that and he is adorable so have any of you ever seen one of those mixs?
Because it is a mix, it is possible, the parent that doesn't have the siamese or ragdoll will have genes that can produce many different colors. I am just learning more on genetics, so I am not sure of a lot to do with coat color, but if you have a siamese and she was mated with a black and white cat, you could have black and white kittens, siamese looking ones (pointed) and any other color that the black and white cat has for recessive/or dominent genes. Also, when ragdolls were first being bred, solids were used to make them as well, and some breeders raise what is called "solid ragdolls" or minks, which can be traced back to ragamuffins, I believe.
post #4 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by celestialrags
Because it is a mix, it is possible, the parent that doesn't have the siamese or ragdoll will have genes that can produce many different colors. I am just learning more on genetics, so I am not sure of a lot to do with coat color, but if you have a siamese and she was mated with a black and white cat, you could have black and white kittens, siamese looking ones (pointed) and any other color that the black and white cat has for recessive/or dominent genes. Also, when ragdolls were first being bred, solids were used to make them as well, and some breeders raise what is called "solid ragdolls" or minks, which can be traced back to ragamuffins, I believe.
Since the Solid and Mink issue is a very hot topic with many different passionate opinions, and I don't want to start any flaming, I won't go into too much detail. Some Solid and Mink Ragdolls can be traced back to Ragamuffins, but not all Minks and Solids Ragdolls. Neither can be shown to championship status, but can be shown in TICA's New Trends Division.
I have a Solid black and white female, she carries the seal, blue and chocolate gene, when bred back to a chocolate colorpoint Ragdoll, she can produce Traditional Seal, Blue, and Chocolate kittens, as well, as Solid Black w/white, Seal w/white, Blue w/white, and Chocolate w/white kittens. The solids and minks still come in the same patterns Colorpoint (no white), the 3 different types of bicolors, and mitteds. Since my Solid girl is a high mitted female, she will produce all mitted's when bred to a colorpoint male.
Lucy, (who I have posted pictures of pregnant on here) is a blue mink colorpoint. She is an SBT registered Mink Ragdoll. We put her with Berlioz, a high mitted Ragdoll, and they produced 4 mitted kittens. A Traditional Seal Mitted Male, Traditional Blue Mitted w/blaze female, Mink Seal mitted female, and a Mink Blue Mitted w/blaze male. They are 10 weeks old on Monday, and all doing well!! The families are anxiously awaiting for Baxter, Sarabi, Truffles, and Lotus, (their new names) to come home. However, my son is already very upset at me for allowing Baxter to leave. We have a couple of weeks to start helping him make that adjustment.
post #5 of 15
Also when I say SBT, I mean Stud book Traditional. Some Ragdolls have since had outcrossing, with different cats, to get the flames and lynx. You will see the prefix AON, BON, CON, and then when bred back to another SBT Ragdoll, the prefix will change back to SBT. Also there is AOT, BOT, and COT.
I found this link, it may explain it better than I can.
http://greenfield.fortunecity.com/hunters/93/codes.htm
post #6 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags
Since the Solid and Mink issue is a very hot topic with many different passionate opinions, and I don't want to start any flaming, I won't go into too much detail. Some Solid and Mink Ragdolls can be traced back to Ragamuffins, but not all Minks and Solids Ragdolls. Neither can be shown to championship status, but can be shown in TICA's New Trends Division.
I have a Solid black and white female, she carries the seal, blue and chocolate gene, when bred back to a chocolate colorpoint Ragdoll, she can produce Traditional Seal, Blue, and Chocolate kittens, as well, as Solid Black w/white, Seal w/white, Blue w/white, and Chocolate w/white kittens. The solids and minks still come in the same patterns Colorpoint (no white), the 3 different types of bicolors, and mitteds. Since my Solid girl is a high mitted female, she will produce all mitted's when bred to a colorpoint male.
Lucy, (who I have posted pictures of pregnant on here) is a blue mink colorpoint. She is an SBT registered Mink Ragdoll. We put her with Berlioz, a high mitted Ragdoll, and they produced 4 mitted kittens. A Traditional Seal Mitted Male, Traditional Blue Mitted w/blaze female, Mink Seal mitted female, and a Mink Blue Mitted w/blaze male. They are 10 weeks old on Monday, and all doing well!! The families are anxiously awaiting for Baxter, Sarabi, Truffles, and Lotus, (their new names) to come home. However, my son is already very upset at me for allowing Baxter to leave. We have a couple of weeks to start helping him make that adjustment.
I don't want to start any flames here either, lol. I mentioned the minks because they are different then the traditional, but brought up the solids, because they are non pointed and can be black and white. I think they (solids) were in the original breed programs started by the founder of the breed, it is the minks that I had meant can be traced back to the raggamuffins, and even then didn't mean any thing by it, or said it to upset any one who has/breeds minks, the only reason I even mentioned they can be traced to the ragamuffins is because when I first joined this site, a person who raised ragamuffins stated that the breed had just linked them back or some thing. the person had been 10 years tracing them or some thing, I really can't remember the post now, and to be honest, I don't know enough about the solids or minks to make a statement to offend any one or their passions (intentionally, lol) I was only bringing them up because the poster had asked about a black and white siamese ragdoll mix. So if my ignorance offended you by saying they can be traced back to ragamuffins i'm sorry, it sounds like this is a big arguement between ragdolls and ragamuffins? But I didn't mean any thing by it, just bringing up solids.
Oh, BTW (FTR) my true bi-color I had wanted so badly, turns out he is not, concidering him bred to a color point gave me mitted! I had been meaning to post or send you an email to tell you that, I hadn't gotten to it yet, I was just going to get pics of them a few minutes ago, but they were having a snack so I didn't bother them. I will get some pics up with the names I decided on shortly.
post #7 of 15
I may have gave you the wrong impression, I know you were not trying to offend me. I am actually the one not trying to start any flames, as when I mention the minks and solids, there are varying degrees of opinions. Yes, there was a thread on here a few months back, that became heated. That is the only reason I am reluctant to speak about Minks or Solids on a public forum. I respect those breeders who choose to stay Traditional, and definitely don't want to step on any toes.
I have heard that some of the pedigrees will be changing, and have heard that this will affect my Minks pedigree to reflect Ragamuffins in the back ground. If this is correct, then from what I understand Lucy's Grandfather is a CON, Lucy's Mother is an SBT, making Lucy now a 2nd generation SBT. I am not positive on that though, as I have called TICA's offices and got many different answers.
None the less, the opinions and facts vary from person to person, from breed to breed.
SO, Dante' is a high mitted, just like my Berlioz!! When he is put with mitteds, you will have bicolors and mitteds, and of course when put with any bicolor will produce one of the 4 bicolor patterns. Our studs, can never produce colorpoint Ragdolls.
I look forward to seeing the pictures.
post #8 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags
I may have gave you the wrong impression, I know you were not trying to offend me. I am actually the one not trying to start any flames, as when I mention the minks and solids, there are varying degrees of opinions. Yes, there was a thread on here a few months back, that became heated. That is the only reason I am reluctant to speak about Minks or Solids on a public forum. I respect those breeders who choose to stay Traditional, and definitely don't want to step on any toes.
I have heard that some of the pedigrees will be changing, and have heard that this will affect my Minks pedigree to reflect Ragamuffins in the back ground. If this is correct, then from what I understand Lucy's Grandfather is a CON, Lucy's Mother is an SBT, making Lucy now a 2nd generation SBT. I am not positive on that though, as I have called TICA's offices and got many different answers.
None the less, the opinions and facts vary from person to person, from breed to breed.
SO, Dante' is a high mitted, just like my Berlioz!! When he is put with mitteds, you will have bicolors and mitteds, and of course when put with any bicolor will produce one of the 4 bicolor patterns. Our studs, can never produce colorpoint Ragdolls.
I look forward to seeing the pictures.
Well, i'm glad we got that sorted out, I just didn't want you to think I was trying to offend you, or any one for that matter (ragdoll, solid, mink, or traditional, or ragamuffin breeders) I have no idea of minks or solids, and for now intend to stay with the tradtional, and mostly because i'm just learning about them, and would be too confussed to get into the others. I Just remember a post (and now that I had been thinking about it, it could have even been a different forum I had been on, (untill I found this one ) and I believe they had said they were able to trace then back, but I don't know what that means for people's registations with those cats now, so good luck if you have stuff get changed on you. If he is put with a mitted, will they produce mitted and bis, but will they be true bis? (I don't have my pattern chart right in front of me)I really don't want to do what was done to me, to some one else, meaning sell them a bi-color when he's not a true bi, I was told Dante' was a true bi, so i'm a little dissapointed for being mislead, but not dissapointed with him, or what he willproduce in the future, and would have gotten him probley if I had known he was a high mitted, just didn't like thinking he was some thing else. Also I was thinking one has a light nose still and light feet, and had thought for a while he looked like he could be a bi-color, i'm sure I am wrong, but what would he be then, if I get mitted and bis? I guess i'm going to have to go get my little chart out, but would he still be a high mitted, or is that some thing else to produce that?
Well pics soon, mabey I will take some nice Easter pics in the morning, and share the names I have decided on, (after loved ones)

(I just checked my chart and it would be a mid high white if I did have the bi-color kitten, but I bet I have all mitted meaning that he is like your Berlioz, a high mitted, I know you know, i'm just telling myself, lol!)
post #9 of 15
If the nose leather and paw pads haven't begun showing any color, then I would assume you have a bicolor. Then he wouldn't be a high mitted, he would be a mid-high white, which will produce True Bicolors and Mitteds for you. You still will not produce colorpoints with Dante', and if you put him with a True Bicolor female, you have a chance at producing Vans AKA High Whites.
post #10 of 15
From what I understand there will be many cats affected by this change, if it indeed sticks. There will be certain cats, bred from those lines that were not Mink, that will lose their titles. It will only affect me, in the fact that my pedigree will reflect a Ragamuffin outcross. Lucy and her kittens will still be SBT registered. While that wasn't my hopes, if the change does go through, or has gone through. I still plan on breeding Lucy.
My solid girl goes all the way back to foundation, so I know believe that there isn't any way that her line can ever be changed. Of course, I have been wrong before.
I am glad you didn't think I was upset with you.
post #11 of 15
I truly hope I never see one. It's so sad how many mix cats there are.
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by momof3rugratz
Can we see a picture please.
sorry i dont have one on this computer but as soon as i get one up here you will see him
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags
I have heard that some of the pedigrees will be changing, and have heard that this will affect my Minks pedigree to reflect Ragamuffins in the back ground. If this is correct, then from what I understand Lucy's Grandfather is a CON, Lucy's Mother is an SBT, making Lucy now a 2nd generation SBT. I am not positive on that though, as I have called TICA's offices and got many different answers.

Ummm both Grandparents are actually RagaMuffins. Liebling Mocha Madness is the Grandparent on the Sire's side and Casey!!!??? was sired by Kitty Catsonova whom I co-owned and Cheri of MerryPawpins.All the cats behind Cheri are registered RagaMuffins.I'm not sure how and to what degree this will affect your Ragdoll pedigrees.



Curt Gehm
post #14 of 15
Repost:

Hi Curt,
Thank you for your concern about my Ragdolls. I have already spoken to TICA, Lucy is a full SBT, along with the babies she has produced!! They are very well loved by their families. It will be several months, but I look forward to more Mink Ragdolls in the future.
post #15 of 15
I just wanted to make sure that everyone has correct pedigrees and they know the true history of those cats in their Breeding Programs.Yourself included.I'm very greateful that those RagaMuffins have been identified.Lucy will probably be going thru another unfortunate change in her TICA registration status since both her Grandparents are RagaMuffins.

She will probably be reverted to CON status once those pedigrees are corrected.It's been a very slow and expensive and tedious process for the RagaMuffin Breeders for us to correct our records.I've contacted the Owners and Breeders of her Great,Great Granparents,so now more money is to be spent on a very unfortunate pedigree falsification.






Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags
Repost:

Hi Curt,
Thank you for your concern about my Ragdolls. I have already spoken to TICA, Lucy is a full SBT, along with the babies she has produced!! They are very well loved by their families. It will be several months, but I look forward to more Mink Ragdolls in the future.
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