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? for Breeders- Scottish Folds

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Hi,

It's my understanding that you can't breed a Scottish Fold (SF) to a Scottish Fold due to the fact that most of the offspring will have some sort of genetic deformity later in life.

So, you can only mate a SF to either a British Short Hair or American SH.

The question is on the offspring : Eg. When you mate a SF x BSH, and you get a litter of 4. 2 have folded ears and automatically gets registered as Scottish Folds. 2 have straight ears. Are they registered as BSH or Scottish Folds also? Is there such a thing as Scottish Short Hair?

Confused!
post #2 of 15
There is both long and shorthair Scottish Folds. I know the fold gene is dominate so you would get about 1/2 1/2 on the fold/non-fold.

I think (not positive as I didn't look up the requirements) but the straight eared folds would be registered as straight eared - not British/American shorthairs.

You don't need to do a direct cross - you can use a folded to non-folded (not same litter) and get folds that fit the standard. The non-folded would be carriers of the folded gene and you'd get more folded that way.
post #3 of 15
If the gene is dominate, then breeding to a straight eared cat will not produce more folds. There will still be about 50-50 folds and straights.

However, I bet that people just use the straights for breeding. That way you can preserve the type.

My understanding is that you just can't breed two folds together because the genetics are fatal if a cat is homozygous for the dominate gene. The folds are heterozygous for it, so breeding two together would cause 50% folds, 25% straights, and 25% fatalities. Better to breed a fold and a straight together to get 50% fold and 50% straight. Then the straights could be used as breeders.
post #4 of 15
That is true on why you can't breed folded to folded. And the typiest straight ear folds are kept to be used in the breeding program. So its not necessary any more to outcross to the ASH or BSH.
post #5 of 15
I worked with the other non-straight ear breed, and have always been fascinated with Folds as well, I find them lovely. The Curl gene is also dominate - the straight ear Curls do not carry the curled ear gene, and breeding a curled ear curl to a straight ear curl will not bring a higher per centage of curled ear curls versus using a straight eared domestic (the only allowable outcross of the American Curl).

If the Scottish Fold gene is dominate as well, which I believe it is, then the non-fold ear folds do not carry the gene for folded ears. Their benefit is in their type and building pedigrees that are generations away from use of an outcross cat.

One reason for continuing outcrossing to American SH or British would be if the breed still needs more diversity in its gene pool...breeding solely to straight eared folds and maintaining the health of the breed would require that there be a goodly number of distinct fold lines.
post #6 of 15
You would have to look into the standards and breed council to find out when the allowable cut off for outcrossing is over. They do have a "deadline"; I just don't know what it is.
post #7 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thanks all - so, just to get this right - a straight eared kitten from a Fold x ASH is still registered as a Scottish fold...but is only used for breeding purposes right?
post #8 of 15
Great as a beloved pet too
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
You would have to look into the standards and breed council to find out when the allowable cut off for outcrossing is over. They do have a "deadline"; I just don't know what it is.
We were just discussing this on a Curl board...when we petitioned for the Curl to be advanced/accepted for Championship, we set a time of 2010 for ending outcrossing (it seemed SO far away back then!)...and I think most breeds that do outcross have a similar date...doesn't mean though that it is the date for the Fold...just nattering.
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
I just checked the CFA site for breed standard and just like Exos, there's no date specified for allowable outcross to ASH and BSH...I suppose that since the fold gene is more prone to defects than the curl gene, the Folds need not have to have a time limit?
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abymummy
I just checked the CFA site for breed standard and just like Exos, there's no date specified for allowable outcross to ASH and BSH...I suppose that since the fold gene is more prone to defects than the curl gene, the Folds need not have to have a time limit?
That would make sense, and I do remember from that recent discussion, there was at least one breed with no cut-off date, must have been the Fold.
post #12 of 15
Thanks for the update on the Folds. Question tho - if there are no current plans for a cut off date, wouldn't that mean there is a major problem with the breed and is it really a wise thing to continue the breed if you must continue the outcrossing to prevent deformities?

Even manx come in tailless, partial tailed and full tailed and only the tailless are shown but you don't need to be outcrossing - just use the tailed manx in the breeding program.

Just a thought.
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
Thanks for the update on the Folds. Question tho - if there are no current plans for a cut off date, wouldn't that mean there is a major problem with the breed and is it really a wise thing to continue the breed if you must continue the outcrossing to prevent deformities?

Even manx come in tailless, partial tailed and full tailed and only the tailless are shown but you don't need to be outcrossing - just use the tailed manx in the breeding program.

Just a thought.
I can't speak for the breed, except to say what I know..it is the result of a spontaneous mutation, it is inherited as an incomplete dominant gene, and that if there were no interference by man, I think you'd see the breed flourishing as only those kits resulting from a fold to non-fold would truly thrive. I think working to minimize the problems of homozygous Folds by not producing them and working with outcross breeds to keep the breed healthy is a good thing that breeders are doing. I truly believe this breed would continue to exist without human intervention, but with human intervention, there are more folds that are healthier.

Just my thoughts, if any of the above is wrong, my apologies to Fold breeders and I hope one will step in and make any necessary corrections.
post #14 of 15
Thread Starter 
I have to agree with you Pat&Alix. Folds are such unique cats. The cat fancy found out very early on (well, according to the CFA article) that breeding Fold x Fold would be a mistake, and only outcrossing would make the gene pool more stable. I've always wanted one but I'm afraid I'll become a breed collector instead of an Aby breeder!!!!
post #15 of 15
Yes, I have an unfolded Scottish Fold... momma had folded ears, daddy didn't... only one kitten had folded ears out of the litter. I picked an unfolded one because I thought she was cute.

She can still be registered as a Scottish Fold, and bred that way if I wanted to (um, which might happen... long story... but she didn't get it on with another SF!) but I haven't gotten around to it. I think you can still show them in the pet category.
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