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Trying to figure out who "dad" was

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
We've been trying to figure out who the Dad to our stray litter was and I thought if I could give some of our genetics experts mom and babies coloring, and some of the local cats coloring, they could help us narrow it down!

Mom: Dsh, short black glossy fur. Tiny crick at the end of tail

Tubby (male kitten 1): dsh, crinkled whiskers, black glossy fur, but very "poofy" looking. He feels like a super soft plush toy.

Wigen (female kitten 2): dsh, crinkled wiskers, all grey, no gloss, crick at end of tail. Started out with poofy fur like Tubby, but the last time I saw her, her coat has smoothed out like mums.

Boots (male kitten 3): dsh, crinkled wiskers, grey with white tuxedo markings on chin, belly and feet, no gloss. Also started out poofy looking but is now smooth.

Tuxedo Kitty (male kitten 4, deceased): dsh, smooth glossy coat and whiskers, black and white tuxedo markings (obviously!).

Dot (female kitten 5, deceased): dsh, smooth glossy black coat and whiskers, one tiny white dot on chest, about the size of a pencil eraser.

Suspect dads: There's a dsh tuxedo cat that hangs out in our back yard sometimes, looks very similar to Tuxedo Kitty. S/He has a collar, but is skittish so I can't tell sex or speuter status.
Grey poofy cat. Haven't seen this one in a few months. All grey and very poofy looking, but def. a dsh. Again, very skittish so I can't tell sex or speuter status.
We also had two orange cats hanging around at the time we took Chalupa in, and again, skittish so who knows if they're girls/boys, speutered, etc.

Thanks for any help anyone can give! Let me know if there are other details that would help.

~Julia
post #2 of 14
Dad is either the tuxedo or the grey. The two females cancel out the orange cats. Had one of the orange cats been the dad, both girls would have been calico since mom is black.

White spotting is a dominate gene. Since mom has no white spots, they must have come from dad. I'd say the tuxedo cat is daddy of the litter. However, if she has ANY white on her, you can't be sure.

BTW, you also know from this litter that mom is heterozygous for the dilute gene (the one that turns black to grey).

I'm not sure about the crinkled whiskers. Crinkles can be both recessive and dominate, depending on the gene. Doesn't tell too much.

If you can, talk with the neighbors about getting him neutered. Course, that means you have to catch him first.
post #3 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by bab-ush-niik
Dad is either the tuxedo or the grey. The two females cancel out the orange cats. Had one of the orange cats been the dad, both girls would have been calico since mom is black.
possibly both - cats can have litters with multiple fathers.
post #4 of 14
Good possibility that both the tuxedo (black/white) male and the grey are fathers. Given the difference in coats, I'd say both are involved.

Mom also HAS to be carrying the dilute factor too or you'd get all black, black/white cats. Since grey (blue) is the dilute of black, both parents have to carry it for it to show.
post #5 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys!

I knew there had to be a reason the orange cats couldn't be the dads, I just couldn't remember why I thought that.

I also hadn't thought about possibility of two dads. though that does make sense considering the differences in the kittens, and in the two kittens that died. Perhaps they had weaker immune systems from a different dad or the dad could have FIP or FelV? I would guess that because they got sick when their brother Tubby didn't after the mom was taken to a low cost spay clinic.

Mom doesn't have any white spots on her, but she does have a few white hairs here and there. Can a cat have a white spot the size of single hair?

~Julia
post #6 of 14
One white hair does NOT equal a "white spot"
post #7 of 14
According to the article I read, it can, but more likely she just has white hairs from old age.
post #8 of 14
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone.
She was actually very young, the vet estimated between 10 months to a year when we found her. So if her white hairs can't be considered a white spot, then I would think the grey cat couldn't be the dad, unless he has a white spot on his belly or somewhere I couldn't see? because the white spotting gene is dominant?

~Julia
post #9 of 14
White spotting is not necessarily dominate. What is dominate is and all white or mainly white.

The grey father has to be the one simply cause both parents have to be carrying the dilute gene.

You can have a cat with a little white that gives a "spot" on the kittens. A "poor" bicolor (one that has little white) can cause a spot or two on the offspring.

In pedigrees it's not a desired trait.
post #10 of 14
I got my info from here. Maybe it's not correct? http://www.netpets.com/cats/referenc...tgenetics.html

" The next gene controlling color expression is the white-spotting gene. This gene controls the presence and pattern of white masking the normal coat pattern, and has four alleles: non-spotted, "s", spotted, "S", particolor, "Sp", and Birman, "sb". The presence of the parti- color and Birman alleles of this gene are still subject to argument at this time: their effect is not.The non-spotted allele, "s", is wild, is recessive, and produces a normal coat without white.

The spotted allele, "S", is mutant, is dominant, and produces white spotting which masks the true coat color in the affected area. This is a variably-expressed allele with a very wide expression range: From a black cat with one white hair to a white cat with one black hair."

I don't see why it has to be the grey based upon the dilute coloring. If both mom and dad are heterozygous for dilute, it's possible to have both grey and black babies. Basically the grey doesn't tell us anything because it's recessive and the mother shows the dominant trait, so she could actually have one recessive gene.
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45
White spotting is not necessarily dominate. What is dominate is and all white or mainly white.

The grey father has to be the one simply cause both parents have to be carrying the dilute gene.

You can have a cat with a little white that gives a "spot" on the kittens. A "poor" bicolor (one that has little white) can cause a spot or two on the offspring.

In pedigrees it's not a desired trait.
The "ordinary" white spotting gene is dominant. There's a recessive gene for white spotting to, but it only gives very little white... a few white hairs on the belly or a medallion on the throat. When I hear tuxedo I think of pretty much white (am I wrong?) and therefor it's more likely the dominant white spotting.

The grey father doesn't have to be the father. If the kittens indeed are blue (diluted) the black male can carry the trait just as well as the mother can. Two undiluted cats can give diluted offspring.
post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlutgendorf
Thanks guys!

I knew there had to be a reason the orange cats couldn't be the dads, I just couldn't remember why I thought that.

I also hadn't thought about possibility of two dads. though that does make sense considering the differences in the kittens, and in the two kittens that died. Perhaps they had weaker immune systems from a different dad or the dad could have FIP or FelV? I would guess that because they got sick when their brother Tubby didn't after the mom was taken to a low cost spay clinic.

Mom doesn't have any white spots on her, but she does have a few white hairs here and there. Can a cat have a white spot the size of single hair?

~Julia
How did the kittens die and how old were they? As soon as I hear of "weak kittens" that die I think of neonatal isoerythrolysis. It's caused by bloodgroup incompatability.
post #13 of 14
You are right about both blacks being the parents and not the gray cause both blacks can carry the dilute.

But IMO you are more likely to get the dilute if one parent already is dilute. Also, keep in mind this was a random breeding and in most cases a stray female will mate with more then one tom if several are around. Its more likely several males are involved then one single male.

And keep in mind the coat texture is similar to BOTH males - not just one.


This is why its kinda fun in guessing who might be the father.
post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
I'll try to post some pics of the babies so you can see the amount of white. They def had more of the black and blue coloring than white though.
The two that died were about 9 to 10 weeks old. They were diagnosed with a bacterial infection, then coccidia and giardia and finally we thought distemper. They basically had vomitting and diarreah and they had to receive sub q fluids and be force fed.

It is interesting to try to figure out who the father is!

Julia
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