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Workplace Morals -EEO & AA

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
Let me give you this scenerio:

You begin a new position with a small company (~ 30 employees)that is strong and growing. The benfits are good, decent 401(k), vacation time is excellent (especially your first year) and when they pay bonuses you feel like you won the lotto.
There isn't a heavy load of work and your salary is GREAT. You have freedom to be on the internet without any restrictions.

On the surface everything seems to be great. Then one day a manager approaches you and says that they're looking for a new employee and was wondering if you knew of anyone.
Sure! you reply
The only stipulation is that the candidates they're interviewing is ONLY women. The reason given is that the rest of the [female only] department refuses to work with any men. PLUS knowing the owner's son you know that this guy is also racist, so anyone that applies must be of a certain ethnic. You know this not only because of conversation, but also because your boss told you that he found a candidate equally as qualified as you but since the other candidate graduate abroad (and I'm not talking Europe), the son didn't want to even entertain the person with an interview.

What would you do?
post #2 of 20
I don't know if I could live with myself. If I knew about that and stayed or kept quiet, I'd feel guilty by association. That is one nasty prediciment!
post #3 of 20
Oh my.
The only thing that would stop me from quitting on the spot would be the fact that I am the type who won't quit a job until I have another lined up.
I'd not only start looking for a new job, I'd call the EEO immediately.
post #4 of 20
I've worked for people who did things that were very much against my morals (embezzling, stealing, money laundering, cheating on wife with manager, lying). Somehow, it didn't really bother me. If I don't work there, somebody else will. And, I manage to separate my work self from my actual self...

This may very well be because I've never had a job longer than two years or one that didn't pay hourly. If I had a real career job, this would probably be different.

I would stay, keep my mouth shut at work, and complain incessantly at home. I know thats not the right thing to do, I am just so non-confrontational that I am honest enough to know thats what I would actually do.
post #5 of 20
My rational side would say "see that it is wrong and start looking for another job." Of course, with my current work situation, I could also support "quitting on the spot." Morals and ethics, to me, are so much more important than ANY paycheck could be.
post #6 of 20
Thread Starter 
Consider this too: this isn't an isolated or new thing. It really does still go on in recruitment.
How many men are now secretaries now?
I've worked one place where it wasn't public knowledge, but well known that females had an easier time getting in to a sales position because of the clientele. In fact, it was joked that two managers had "types" they hired in...one would hire in blondes, the other hired in skinny petite women. We would confront them and they would readily deny the accusations. BUT it happened enough to have good grounds of suspicion.
post #7 of 20
How does the "boss" know that the "female only" dept doesn't want to work with men??? I worked in a male dominated company for 20 years. We had 5 men all held mgmt positions -only one woman did. The rest of us were administrative and due to many circumstances not opportunity for promotion. The one position that was more mgmt was such an awful it had a high turnover rate and none of the other women who could be classified as eligible for this position refused to apply when it opened up.
I think it depends on how strong if a person you are.
I am a to the point type of person and would most likely speak my mind on the situation.
post #8 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GailC
How does the "boss" know that the "female only" dept doesn't want to work with men???
The department told him and most of them are family of the owners.
post #9 of 20
I have no backbone and wouldn't be able to quit until I had another job lined up. But they'd eventually, erm, hear what was on my mind.
post #10 of 20
While I'm not 100% sure on this, I think that most small businesses, under 50 employees, are exempt from the Equal Opportunity and definitely exempt from any Affirmative Action quotas. Basically, it is legal for them to do it that way - to decide they want to only hire women, and only white women at that. Is it right? No. One would hope that such stereotypes wouldn't matter - only hiring the best person for the job regardless of sex or color. But that doesn't make it necessarily illegal, either.

If it's up to conscious, I would have to say for me it would depend on whether this issue comes up daily (i.e. comments at others' expense) or only in terms of their hiring preference.
post #11 of 20
This would make me hopping mad... actually. I clicked the "another job lined up" because I DO have to feed the kids.

I currently work for an organization that tries to promote diversity in the media (and I'm white ) but some of the things that get reported just absolutely disgust me.
post #12 of 20
Hopefully, I'd manage to avoid being hot-headed enough to quit on the spot - I do have cats to feed so reality has to play a role. But definitely I'd start looking for a new job, and also take action to rectify the situation.
post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
While I'm not 100% sure on this, I think that most small businesses, under 50 employees, are exempt from the Equal Opportunity and definitely exempt from any Affirmative Action quotas. Basically, it is legal for them to do it that way - to decide they want to only hire women, and only white women at that. Is it right? No. One would hope that such stereotypes wouldn't matter - only hiring the best person for the job regardless of sex or color. But that doesn't make it necessarily illegal, either.

If it's up to conscious, I would have to say for me it would depend on whether this issue comes up daily (i.e. comments at others' expense) or only in terms of their hiring preference.

I was trying to find the number of employees before EEO goes into effect. I'm not sure what the minimum employment is before it takes effect (I looked on the EEO's web site, but couldn't find anything right away...I'm a little slow with legal stuff )

It makes me wonder if the company would EVER go above that number though or if they would just maintain the same amount of people so that they don't have to start covering things up.
post #14 of 20
I asked my Bookkeeper/HR person in the office. She's pretty sure that the cutoff for not having to do EEO is 10 employees, as that is the cutoff for a lot of federal regulations. She said that a quick call to the EEOC would get you the answers you need, but if you want to pursue it be sure to have your ducks in a row - keep an ongoing log of conversations, comments, things like that. Don't leave it at the office - bring it home with you every day - and keep it hidden from everyone while at work. But she's pretty sure that at 30 employees, they are breaking the law by having those requirements for hiring.
post #15 of 20
I voted for speak with boss or someone higher up.

I definately wouldn't sit and let something go on that I knew was wrong. I have a voice and a backbone and would use them ( I might be peeing my pants scared in private but I would put on my brave suit for that). You have to do what you think is right. We need to stand up for our beliefs and values other wise we're not being true to ourselves.

I don't know about you, but I would have the confidence to find another job if they let you go for standing up and saying something. Besides, would you really want to stay there anyways knowing what kind of people they are??
post #16 of 20
Thread Starter 
NO and that's part of the reason why I decided to go back to college and get my masters. For one, I don't really like the job and I knew if I found another one, I would be in the same type of position.

The thing that binds me a bit is that it took me a year in a half to find this position. If it does again, then by then I'll have graduated and maybe can get out of Michigan!!

For me, it's one thing if you deny that its going on and its really happening. The less I know the better for me. The fact that they're really open about it does bother me.
post #17 of 20
What I might suggest for you, then, is to keep that log (that you take home and hide at work, or keep it at home and write everything pertinant down when you get home) until you can find another job or until you get your Masters and aren't dependent on them anymore for your income. Then turn them in to the EEOC with all of your backup. If they are that blatent about it, and it does appear to be illegal, they should be called to task on it at some point. Whether that is now or later can be totally up to you - apparently the only person there with a moral sense of the world!
post #18 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
What I might suggest for you, then, is to keep that log (that you take home and hide at work, or keep it at home and write everything pertinant down when you get home) until you can find another job or until you get your Masters and aren't dependent on them anymore for your income. Then turn them in to the EEOC with all of your backup. If they are that blatent about it, and it does appear to be illegal, they should be called to task on it at some point. Whether that is now or later can be totally up to you - apparently the only person there with a moral sense of the world!
Thanks!

Like I said, I knew something was funny when I first started...I asked someone where the diversity was. They said that we were too small of a company to fall under EEO.
After what you said I googled it, and sure enough we were double the min. I wonder though if claim themselves as separate companies (we're really one big one with many smaller segments). In anycase though its still fishy and it doesn't make me be proud of where I work. Plus being the IT person makes it easy for me to get a hold of emails and documents.

It's disgusting though. I started inquiring around at work, not investigating, but just more conversation...there's other people that think its wrong too, but I guess they like the benies more then the ethics.
post #19 of 20
What is that saying...all it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to say nothing.

I think staying, but documenting what is happening is a good compromise. I had a moral dilemma come up at work several years ago. It appeared to me that we were overbilling the state. I discussed it with my co-workers, and we confronted my boss. I was ready to quit rather than be a party to illegal billing. My boss double checked what we were doing and said it was acceptable, but he could see that we were still upset. So he called the state billing person, who spoke to us by speaker phone, and let us discuss it fully. Turns out it was all fair billing, according to the state.

In general, I think it is best to bring these things out in the open. However, that may not be an option for you. Maybe you could be job hunting and documenting things at the same time?!?
post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 
I'll probably keep an eye on it and Becki and hopefully find a new job soon. The thing that's discouraging to me though is that this the third job (of 3 in my career) that I just find "not right".
I.e., my first job my boss ran along the lines of sexual harassment. He would ask me if I was "kickin' it" with anyone on the weekends. The most offensive? One of my coworkers brought in her child and he turned to me and said "I can't wait until you start popping out one of those". I totally blew up at him!
The second job...the one I just left, they wound up turning me into a secretary...even though I was hired in to do IT work.
Now this job. What is wrong with businesses out there?!

The one thing I do have to do though is lock in some sort of rate for student loans before I leave. I tried to apply for them last fall but because I had just started at this company I had a HUGE interest rate.
I'm hoping being there 6 months will have lowered it.
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