more ???'s

alliread · Mar 30, 2006

I loved the whole journey of pregnancy, and labor, and the 1 kitten we got, growing up..But I CANNOT wait to get them both fixed..Between my story and so many others, I dont want to ever go through the amount of stress thats involved again.
Maybe fostering, but not my own, And since we are going to keep mommy and son, I want them both fixed, for health reasons as well as incest.
My question is..Can the baby get fixed when I take momma?
I keep hearing about early neutering, but I just wanted your opinions..Since he is a boy too. My biggest thing with getting him done early is #1 I believe if Im gonna take momma I should take them both at the same time, just so they will both be done and over with. Too many people do one then put the others off...And #2 I dont want him to EVER spray if I can help it.

So can I take him young?
And what is the average prices. I looked on someone's link here for low cost clinics etc..Cant remember which one of you it was, There was a program that actually went through the vets I took momma to the following days after delivery. You buy a certificate for 50 dollars, then take it to the vets.

Would that cover the whole cost??I guess I should have done more reading.
Also our shelters offer it pretty cheap, for low-income, which I am definitly in that category..
And the petsmarts, and petco's offer low priced vaccinations also..
Just wanted opinions on whether it was important to stay with their vet, I know sometimes it cant be helped, I just dont want to go somewhere for one thing, then another place for another,,...
Maybe its my distrust in doctors period, from my own experiences..

And as far as momma, since I dont know if she's ever been vaccinated, do I get everything? or only some things??

solaritybengals · Mar 30, 2006

You could do early neuter on the baby but many vets won't do it. I would call around to see who does and what it costs, as cost is different based on your area. If no one does it, waiting for the boy to be 3-4 months old won't be a problem as long as he's in the house. They rebound very quickly and spraying behavior dosn'et usually start until a year old. Obviously the sooner mom goes in the better.

Mom should probably get all her vaccines (3-way booster and rabies) just to be on the safe side. I won't do FIV or FelV vaccines personally.

alliread · Mar 30, 2006

But you cant overdose them?? I just wasnt sure if she already had something, if it would harm her to have it again.

solaritybengals · Mar 30, 2006

Well the vet would know for sure. But since you don't know what she has or hasn't its better to play it safe and do the vaccine. I'd plan on the 2 vaccines finance wise, and then see what the vet says when you bring her in.

alliread · Mar 30, 2006

Ok thanks...
I cannot wait to make sure everything is done and over with...Makes me nervous at the thought of putting momma through this again..
Even though I was alil disappointed with one kitten, its such a blessing, that way I can keep him and know for a fact he has a good home, right with his mommy..
Also baby isnt to cuddly, He'd rather be with his momma, which is understandable..
He lets me hold him, but not for long, and he hasnt shown any signs of aggression..
But momma doesnt seem to like it either, well she's ok..But I better not move more then 2inches away..
Never got agressive either, just meows like "what are you doing, put him back"
Will this continue forever

celestialrags · Mar 30, 2006

Originally Posted by alliread

Ok thanks...
I cannot wait to make sure everything is done and over with...Makes me nervous at the thought of putting momma through this again..
Even though I was alil disappointed with one kitten, its such a blessing, that way I can keep him and know for a fact he has a good home, right with his mommy..
Also baby isnt to cuddly, He'd rather be with his momma, which is understandable..
He lets me hold him, but not for long, and he hasnt shown any signs of aggression..
But momma doesnt seem to like it either, well she's ok..But I better not move more then 2inches away..
Never got agressive either, just meows like "what are you doing, put him back"
Will this continue forever

Well, how young is he? If he is as young as I think he is, (2 or 3 weeks?) then he really wont want to be held very much yet he isn't used to it. Mom will be nervious because he is still pretty dependent on her still. But, now is the time to get him used to being held, I always push their claws out like im going to clip them and wipe the eyes and ears and look in their mouths, so they get used to being handled and having nails done.
Most vets that do early alter will do it at 8 weeks, but the main thing was the weight, they have to be 2 lbs before they will do it, (well based on the one vet I found that agreed to do it for me)

alliread · Mar 30, 2006

Ok, thanks for the info, and yes he is only 3wks, it all makes sense

tnr1 · Mar 30, 2006

Originally Posted by alliread

Ok, thanks for the info, and yes he is only 3wks, it all makes sense

I think as long as the vet is willing to perform pediatric neutering..you can certainly have your young boy fixed at the same time as mom. Our rescue prefers to spay/neuter at 10-12 weeks. We've had hundreds of kittens fixed at this age and they have all come through it fine. You may want to start contacting vets in your state to see if anyone performs pediatric spay/neuter.

Katie

momof3rugratz · Mar 30, 2006

My vet said he will do it at 10 weeks. I figured I would after Skittles poops then I will turn around and fix her then a month later all the kittens. Then the kittens will go to my family. My vet is in another town because I live in chinaville. Skittles had an appt to be spayed but I told vet I thought she was PG and my kids are really sick and he said talk to the family and if you have good home then he will make me another appt in 3 weeks, but to make sure she was inside 24/7 for the whole 3 weeks just in case she is not pregnant then we can go ahead and spay her and no worry that she is pregnant.

charmed654321 · Mar 31, 2006

Hi! Congrats on your new little guy & to his Mom!

As far as the holding and affection goes, I've expeirenced two litters in my life(both came to me very, very pregnant, the 1st gave birh an hour after I took her in, this one, one week after). Both litters were very different. The 1st loved to be held, these guys not as much. But I did keep one of the kittens, and he was a real Momma's boy, but as he got to be 4 or 5 months old, he began to be more and more affection. He's still not one to be held much, but he is a snuggler and loves to lay next to me, be pet, and tickled, and play "got your nose" and all sorts of fun things. And loves to give kisses. So the holding I'm not so worried about, nor do I miss it. He has his own special way of showing love.

About the spaying, I have to say that I disagree with most of what is here based on what I've been told, read, experienced, etc.

First, I'm not sure what you mean by waiting until after Skittles poops. But that aside...

First I was told by the people at the animal rescue group who were helping me, who got all the rest of the babies homes, and who I've been fostering for (and the director is a vet) that she and the other vets who work with the group all say you should not spay a female who has given birth until she is completely finished nursing and has pretty much had all her milk dry up. I never asked why, but that is what I was told. That is also what they did not only with Deja Vu, but with the others I've fostered for them also.

Also, none of them believe in early spaying or neutering. I guess there is a reason you have to look to find a vet that will do it, because many will not, and believe it is not the healthiest thing. Especially for males, the reason being that once they neuter them, it affects the development of the urinary glands, and that can lead to urinary problems, and infections, later on in life. And that, in males, is pretty dangerous, much more so than females.

What they suggest here is to wait until 6-7 months for a femal, 8-9 for a male.

All I can say is I'm waiting with Rocky (I have an appointment for his neuter the week after next, he's 8 1/2 months old now) and he has not started to spray yet. I would not wait until after 9 months though. But it is my understanding they do not realy start becoming sexually developed until they are almost 9 months old, so based on what I was told, and what I've read on the web, I think you could wait until 8 or 8 1/2 months easily without worrying about him spraying.

Also, if you do think your cat is pregnant, just to let you know (because I just discovered this recently with Deja Vu) the can neuter a cat who is in the early stages of pregnancy. Of course, this does abort the pregnancy, but that means there are that many fewer kittens in the world, and homes for some that have already been born. I would seriously have considered that myself with Deja Vu except that she was almost ready and gave birth only 1 weeki after she came here. However, in all honesty, although I would rather have not, I probably would have made that decision if she had been under 4 weeks pregnant.

I figure I can always foster a pregnant female when I'm in the mood to raise and have the babies around.

Anyway, as far as the early neuter, do some searches on the web, and you'll find varying opinions. But my feeling is if it was so safe, why does one have to look so hard to find someone to do it?

I realize it's easier and more convenient to do all at once, but look down the road. If it causes a lot of urinary problems in him, it would be a lot less convenient and a lot more expensive down the road.

Also, with the low-cost spay/neuter coupons, I personally would have no problem having it done at another vet if it saves you a significant amount of money. But one thing the rescue group warned me about (and I will pass on to you) is that when you have one of thiose spay certificates, make sure when you talk to the vet, that they will not do (or also charge you for) a n office visit. Often they tack it on and suddenly your $50 becomes $125 or something. As long as you know your cat is healthy, tell them you just want the spay/neuter and nothing else, and then cupi an use your own vet for those other things.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Based on what I learned, been told, read, experienced both recently and in the past going through this, I do feel I need to disagree with much of what was said here.

poohandwendy · Mar 31, 2006

But it is my understanding they do not realy start becoming sexually developed until they are almost 9 months old, so based on what I was told, and what I've read on the web, I think you could wait until 8 or 8 1/2 months easily without worrying about him spraying.

In my experience, that is not true.

We had our females (mother and 2 kittens) spayed first and waited with the boys. They became sexually mature when they just turned 6 months.

Also, before we had the mother cat, we had another male cat who also became sexually mature when he was 6 months old.

So, it became a necessity to neuter around that time for all of the males I have had. I am sure it varies, but I would not count on having 8 or 9 months to make that decision.

(and none were around intact females when they became sexually mature)

momof3rugratz · Mar 31, 2006

Everyone has there own opinion, I m not here to be defend what I do.

I did read that females and males are unpredictable and some become sexual at 4 or 5 months old. I do not want to wait that long. The situation with Skittles was not in my hands. My life has not been that easy this year so I will leave it at that and just pray she is healthy and the babies.

celestialrags · Mar 31, 2006

Originally Posted by Charmed654321

Hi! Congrats on your new little guy & to his Mom!

As far as the holding and affection goes, I've expeirenced two litters in my life(both came to me very, very pregnant, the 1st gave birh an hour after I took her in, this one, one week after). Both litters were very different. The 1st loved to be held, these guys not as much. But I did keep one of the kittens, and he was a real Momma's boy, but as he got to be 4 or 5 months old, he began to be more and more affection. He's still not one to be held much, but he is a snuggler and loves to lay next to me, be pet, and tickled, and play "got your nose" and all sorts of fun things. And loves to give kisses. So the holding I'm not so worried about, nor do I miss it. He has his own special way of showing love.

About the spaying, I have to say that I disagree with most of what is here based on what I've been told, read, experienced, etc.

First, I'm not sure what you mean by waiting until after Skittles poops. But that aside...

First I was told by the people at the animal rescue group who were helping me, who got all the rest of the babies homes, and who I've been fostering for (and the director is a vet) that she and the other vets who work with the group all say you should not spay a female who has given birth until she is completely finished nursing and has pretty much had all her milk dry up. I never asked why, but that is what I was told. That is also what they did not only with Deja Vu, but with the others I've fostered for them also.

Also, none of them believe in early spaying or neutering. I guess there is a reason you have to look to find a vet that will do it, because many will not, and believe it is not the healthiest thing. Especially for males, the reason being that once they neuter them, it affects the development of the urinary glands, and that can lead to urinary problems, and infections, later on in life. And that, in males, is pretty dangerous, much more so than females.

What they suggest here is to wait until 6-7 months for a femal, 8-9 for a male.

All I can say is I'm waiting with Rocky (I have an appointment for his neuter the week after next, he's 8 1/2 months old now) and he has not started to spray yet. I would not wait until after 9 months though. But it is my understanding they do not realy start becoming sexually developed until they are almost 9 months old, so based on what I was told, and what I've read on the web, I think you could wait until 8 or 8 1/2 months easily without worrying about him spraying.

Also, if you do think your cat is pregnant, just to let you know (because I just discovered this recently with Deja Vu) the can neuter a cat who is in the early stages of pregnancy. Of course, this does abort the pregnancy, but that means there are that many fewer kittens in the world, and homes for some that have already been born. I would seriously have considered that myself with Deja Vu except that she was almost ready and gave birth only 1 weeki after she came here. However, in all honesty, although I would rather have not, I probably would have made that decision if she had been under 4 weeks pregnant.

I figure I can always foster a pregnant female when I'm in the mood to raise and have the babies around.

Anyway, as far as the early neuter, do some searches on the web, and you'll find varying opinions. But my feeling is if it was so safe, why does one have to look so hard to find someone to do it?

I realize it's easier and more convenient to do all at once, but look down the road. If it causes a lot of urinary problems in him, it would be a lot less convenient and a lot more expensive down the road.

Also, with the low-cost spay/neuter coupons, I personally would have no problem having it done at another vet if it saves you a significant amount of money. But one thing the rescue group warned me about (and I will pass on to you) is that when you have one of thiose spay certificates, make sure when you talk to the vet, that they will not do (or also charge you for) a n office visit. Often they tack it on and suddenly your $50 becomes $125 or something. As long as you know your cat is healthy, tell them you just want the spay/neuter and nothing else, and then cupi an use your own vet for those other things.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

Based on what I learned, been told, read, experienced both recently and in the past going through this, I do feel I need to disagree with much of what was said here.

I have a hard time believing that a rescue group doesn't do the early neuter. Any of have ever seen pushes it. From my expirience with having to "find" a vet to do it, is most just lack the expirience. Also they are mostly family vets and for some reason think that people will keep their pets in until being altered. Any vets I've seen who work with shelters and rescues do it and have no problems doing it, some even have a mobile spay van, and just pull up and do it. They do hundreds with no problems, and healing is supposed to be quicker because they are young
If people can't or decide not to do early neuter, I wouldn't wait a day past 6 months, at 9 months your male could have snuck out and impregnated half the neighborhood by then. Females can also get pregnant by 6 months, read all the posts with people who have very young cats that are pregnant. It is up to any person to decide what is best for their animal but when giving people facts they should have their facts straight and give the full info and not just oppinions.

(by the way I don't do early alters and have only found a few vets that do it, but, I have never heard of any animal male or female having any problems what so ever by it, my mentor does early alters before placeing any pet kitten, she would NEVER do any thing that would hurt her babies. I think that the more popular it becomes the more common it will be for the vet to do, just like any thing else.) My male just turned 9 months, and he has already bred my female, she is do within a week or two, so that means the little twit was mature enough at 7/8 months to breed.

gayef · Mar 31, 2006

After discussing pediatric spay/neuter with both of my vets, reading just about everything I can get my hands on about it and talking with other long-time, experienced breeders, I think the jury is still out on what, if any, possible side effects there may or may not be down the road. I would do it for all of my kittens (at the age of 12 weeks - no sooner) if it were available to me but it isn't.

As for when to spay Momma cat - I have it on good authority that it is best to wait until the kittens are 10 to 12 weeks old. Even if they are still nursing from time to time, by that age they are all usually eating consistantly on their own and are no longer dependant upon Momma for their nutritional needs. I wouldn't do it any earlier than that.

alliread · Mar 31, 2006

Thanks everyone for all the info...I think im alittle confused still...
BUT.....
Say i wait till the baby is 12 wks to make sure he is weaned..
At 12 wks is that an ok time to take both??
even 16 weeks...
Neither one is going anywhere...its been 70 degree's +, and I havent even opened the balcony door, only high windows..I REFUSE to let either one go out..Trust me

familytimerags · Mar 31, 2006

Pediatric spaying and neutering has been practiced for many years, by many vets. There will be some vets still that either haven't became aware of the tons of research now supporting early spaying and neutering, or haven't had a chance or reason to perform it. I have found many that will do it, however, just because they would, didn't mean that after I interviewed them that I would go through them. Some I just didn't feel comfortable with, as they hadn't done too many early alters yet, and I did want someone that was experienced.
I have had my pets early altered with never a problem, and they are now healthy adults, as well as having any kitten born that leaves as a pet spayed or neutered before leaving, usually between 10-11 weeks old, and they leave around 12 weeks old.
I have seen many whole males come of sexual maturity at 5-6 months old, to believe that average is 9 months old. I also have seen many females come into heat earlier than 6 months. If there is a male and female left with each other intact, the male will have most likely impregnated her by the time he is 9 months old.
Early altering is endorsed by the American Humane Association, American Veterinary Medical Association, Spay USA, American Animal Hospital Association, Winn Feline Foundation, major cat associations and other animal organizations. The Winn Feline Foundation has done studies, and even comment on the observations and conclusions. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/repo...ly-neuter.html
I can say from experience with early alter, that none of our kittens or cats have ever had any urinary problems, the growth has not been stunted. Our 4year old male is 18 lbs, and not a bit of fat on him, he was neutered at 11 weeks old. His vet visits in those 4 years have only been for check ups.
I think it is your decision of when to neuter, but there is a lot of research that you can do to make an educated decision.
I not only early alter for the overall health of the cat, male and female, but the kitten can come home with the Mom and littermates and heal much quicker. As well, as it seems that a lot of posts I read on cat forums, that people are busy, and things come up, that may push back the urgency of spaying and neutering, then before they know it, their cat has been accidently bred and is expecting kittens. This would be so easily prevented by more shelters altering before the kittens/cats leave and breeders doing the same.
Most of the shelters here alter early, as well as more and more breeders are taking on the responsibility of early altering.
I am not trying to come off as offensive, this is just a topic I feel very strongly about, and have researched and experienced the benefits.

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alliread

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solaritybengals

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alliread

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solaritybengals

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alliread

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celestialrags

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alliread

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tnr1

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momof3rugratz

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charmed654321

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poohandwendy

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momof3rugratz

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celestialrags

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gayef

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alliread

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familytimerags

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