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Credible info or no?

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
We are debating what level of credibility this info holds on another site. What are your thoughts? I know it is about dogs, but as we're general animal lovers here, I figured "why not?" as this can also be applied directly to cats as well...

I personally think that no matter what behavioral issue the animal has, being unfixed is not going to help it, and desexing could be a huge step towards fixing the problem.

http://www.leerburg.com/neuter.htm
post #2 of 13
It is hard because when he talks about neutering effecting working dogs, it almost makes sense. But then when he says he cringes when people who purchase his dogs say they are going to neuter them, that is just stupid. Just because he (an experienced breeder) sees his puppies as good potential studs doesn't mean the buyer is going to have the knowledge or desire to breed the dog when it is older. If he seems a particular puppy would be a good breeder then he shouldn't sell it. That is where I do not agree. If its a pet dog, neuter him, if it's a working dog, then maybe his reasons are a little more credible.
post #3 of 13
I couldn't really tell what country this person was from, but I think he's seriously deluded if he thinks that there is no dog overpopulation problem! It hurts his feelings that people are going to neuter his dogs? Huh? I think he's projecting himself in there a little bit.
post #4 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen
It is hard because when he talks about neutering effecting working dogs, it almost makes sense. But then when he says he cringes when people who purchase his dogs say they are going to neuter them, that is just stupid. Just because he (an experienced breeder) sees his puppies as good potential studs doesn't mean the buyer is going to have the knowledge or desire to breed the dog when it is older. If he seems a particular puppy would be a good breeder then he shouldn't sell it. That is where I do not agree. If its a pet dog, neuter him, if it's a working dog, then maybe his reasons are a little more credible.

I personally think that a working dog would get a bit "distracted" if there were a bitch in heat wafting a scent past him (anyone experienced with working dogs, feel free to explain if this is true or not to me).

I also agree that the whining about people adopting stud-worthy dogs and neutering them is just childish. If it is truly that good, sell it as a breeder or keep it.
post #5 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluchetta
I couldn't really tell what country this person was from, but I think he's seriously deluded if he thinks that there is no dog overpopulation problem! It hurts his feelings that people are going to neuter his dogs? Huh? I think he's projecting himself in there a little bit.

lol. It sounds that way to me too. Sounds a tad like a kid selling his skateboard and crying when the buyer paints it pink. (not to compare dogs to property/playthings)
post #6 of 13
I also notice that this study on bone cancer has no link or citation of any kind. Maybe I'm too much of an academic, but that certainly doesn't help prove his point. Is that true?
And, just because a dog is a good dog doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. HE has only had "one" accidental breeding, but his customers may not be so lucky. Especially boys, since if they get out who knows what happens? It's usually only with the girls that you find out about an "accidental" breeding.
post #7 of 13
The fact that this guy sells prong collars http://www.leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm says it all for me - he's probably into aggressive dogs, and doesn't worry about the dogs' welfare.
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
The fact that this guy sells prong collars http://www.leerburg.com/fit-prong.htm says it all for me - he's probably into aggressive dogs, and doesn't worry about the dogs' welfare.
This is a little off-topic, but what exactly is a prong collar for? It seems like everyone around here uses them and I especially notice them on the bully breeds. It seems a bit...draconian...but then, so do choke collars. SO what's the deal?

And as to this guy not neutering...total bull. He's just projecting himself onto these dogs.
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionessrampant
This is a little off-topic, but what exactly is a prong collar for? It seems like everyone around here uses them and I especially notice them on the bully breeds. It seems a bit...draconian...but then, so do choke collars. SO what's the deal?

And as to this guy not neutering...total bull. He's just projecting himself onto these dogs.
They're to "control" those dogs. But in my experience all the dogs do is choke themselves. I used to have a husky, and had to use a choke collar because his instinct was to pull. When we did training with our lab, the trainer said that those don't work because dogs pull instinctively, and the more we pull against them the more they think they are supposed to pull. That's why someone came up with the Gentle Leader or "Haltie". The same concept as leading a horse. And it works loads better than any choke collar or prong collar. I think guys that buy the prong collars just want to look macho.
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonOddity042
I personally think that a working dog would get a bit "distracted" if there were a bitch in heat wafting a scent past him (anyone experienced with working dogs, feel free to explain if this is true or not to me).
I walk past the local federal police (formerly Bundesgrenzschutz) headquarters twice a day, and often see the K-9 units coming and going. I haven't noticed any unneutered males, though I'll start looking more closely now, and/or will ask one of the handlers. The dogs are trained to sniff out drugs, explosives, and exotic animals, so no "aggression" is necessary.
A friend of mine (dog trainer, with her own school) works in search and rescue, and travels to earthquake/disaster areas all over the world. Her two male dogs are definitely neutered (and the lone female spayed, of course).
It wouldn't make sense for such working dogs not to be neutered, as they often have to work with other dogs, and the last thing needed is a dog fight.
I'm also suspicious of this particular breeder because his/her site talks about Schutzhund training, which is illegal in many states for good reason. Although it translates into "watchdog" or "guard dog", the dogs are actually trained as attack dogs (I used to have a dog that had had the training - forget it).
post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
I walk past the local federal police (formerly Bundesgrenzschutz) headquarters twice a day, and often see the K-9 units coming and going. I haven't noticed any unneutered males, though I'll start looking more closely now, and/or will ask one of the handlers. The dogs are trained to sniff out drugs, explosives, and exotic animals, so no "aggression" is necessary.
A friend of mine (dog trainer, with her own school) works in search and rescue, and travels to earthquake/disaster areas all over the world. Her two male dogs are definitely neutered (and the lone female spayed, of course).
It wouldn't make sense for such working dogs not to be neutered, as they often have to work with other dogs, and the last thing needed is a dog fight.
I'm also suspicious of this particular breeder because his/her site talks about Schutzhund training, which is illegal in many states for good reason. Although it translates into "watchdog" or "guard dog", the dogs are actually trained as attack dogs (I used to have a dog that had had the training - forget it).
I know that all the K9 cops are fixed here ... Schutzhund training this training is getting more popular here and it baffles me why the average person would want a dog that often has a protective intict and train him / her to be a "killing capable animal ...

Prong collars are slightly different than a choke collor... the prongs are the safer of the two as they pinch rather than choke the animal but a far better option is traing and a halti or gentle leader...
post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonOddity042
lol. It sounds that way to me too. Sounds a tad like a kid selling his skateboard and crying when the buyer paints it pink. (not to compare dogs to property/playthings)


This guy is pretty opinionated. If you go through the table of contents, he's also got a bunch of links that are HIS OPINIONS on the war. Pul-leez. If you're going to run a legit business, keep your opinions to yourself.

Back to the question at hand, unless you're a veterinarian or vet technician, I don't think he should post this stuff without citing this information first, like Zissou's Mom said.
For example, when he types about the increased risk of bone cancer and general cancer. Where is the proof for this? I wanna see it! I was also surprised when he threw in about the female dogs too. I've always been told by many vets that unless you're breeding a female should get fixed as she will have a increased chance of ovarian cancer (actually a couple of vets told me its ANY female animal for this).

IMO, there are enough homeless animals. As bob barker says "Have your pets spayed or neutered!"
post #13 of 13
[quote=Zissou'sMom]I also notice that this study on bone cancer has no link or citation of any kind. Maybe I'm too much of an academic, but that certainly doesn't help prove his point. Is that true?


I have to agree with you on the credentials, Academics or not you always quote your numbers!! Anyone can forge that kind of stuff, but working at a petstore that has credited trainers, i have never heard of having to neuter your dogs, hmmmm....that is why i saw on tv where they save dogs from pounds and prisoners help train them as working dogs, only a great majority had to be neutered!! Altereing the animals may help stop the urges but i don't see it affecting the personality of a dog, especialy if the training was done correctly.
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