TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › What are your rights? 'D'oh'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What are your rights? 'D'oh'

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
What are your rights? 'D'oh'

The US Constitution

The Bill of Rights
post #2 of 25
Sad....really sad. Just what IS being taught in schools - because it sure isn't history, government, math, English (basic reading and writing skills), geography...

Although I have to admit that I could recall only 4 of the 5. I didn't remember the right to petition for redress of grievances. (And I do know all 5 of the Simpsons...)
post #3 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
Although I have to admit that I could recall only 4 of the 5. I didn't remember the right to petition for redress of grievances. (And I do know all 5 of the Simpsons...)
Same here...but it also took me a few minutes to remember Maggie, so I'm just a failure all around!

About your other other question, those things ARE being taught in schools, sure, because I was a nerdy bookworm and remember all of that stuff and I remember working hard to graduate in the top 5% of my class, etc, etc, etc. I was held to a high standard by my family and the gifted prgram at my school. I didn't get away with much.

But I vivildy remember some of the less motivated kids being baby-ed by the school. If someone took intro to math instead of pre-calc, they still got the credit and could graduate. They didn't know how to do basic algebraic functions, but they got to go up during role call just like I did. I think that schools and parents need to really hold kids to a higher standard and demand that they can do certain things or they simply don't get to move on. Period.
post #4 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionessrampant
I think that schools and parents need to really hold kids to a higher standard and demand that they can do certain things or they simply don't get to move on. Period.

They used to be that way, until someone (I won't mention names) enacted the No child left behind thing.
post #5 of 25
This is all the more prevalent to me now that I'm tutoring my best friend's daughter in math. She's in the 6th grade out in Reno (yes, tutoring long distance... not easy), and the schools have not been so good to her. She is in an overcrowded classroom and the teacher simply glosses over what she needs.

In the 1800's, you rarely did anything beyond 8th grade and you learned everything by then. To a degree, we're getting better in this country about what is being taught. But it's not good enough.

When I was in high school, I didn't get beyond general math. You wanna know why? They wouldn't let me. No, I'm not kidding. They (meaning my parents and the faculty) did everything they could to keep me in low classes, without putting me in 'special' classes. I was considered stupid and slow, which I'm not. But after so many years of getting told that you are, you believe it. When you're a kid, you are (unfortunately) at the mercy of the adults around you. In 7th grade I took one matter into my own hands, and wrote a letter to my teacher (long story), whocpassed it on to our inept principal and she made the changes. I wasn't stupid, just unchallenged. I wasn't slow, just more methodical about how I did my work (a perfectionist with low self-esteem... there's one for the books). I wasn't stupid, but they classified me as such. My IQ is probably higher than my HS counselors', but she and some of the teachers kept me under their thumb. My school district was one of THE worst in CA, and CA was one of the worst in the country. Heck, it still is. I checked online for the state rankings on education. And CA is still in the bottom five or so. I only started going to college because people told me I couldn't. Never tell me I CAN'T do something. Because unless it's illegal or immoral, I'll do it. Here, I was supposed to be a HS dropout, and I have my BA in English, and want to go for my MA and maybe my PhD. So there!

I'll agree that handholding isn't the best either. I believe parents are afraid of confronting and being tough to their kids. Teachers are being forced into the position of surrogate parents. Which is all together wrong. Teachers are there to educate, not be mommy. A lot of folks beat up on the the teachers, saying they're the problem... true, they're being trained in outdated teaching methods that don't work anymore. Teachers are forced to gloss over things and only teach a certian way. The system isn't taking into account the different learning styles. But it's not the teacher's fault that classrooms are vastly overcrowded and parents aren't parenting anymore. I believe that the education system in this country needs a complete overhaul. Not just patching up, which is what they're doing. It doesn't work. Build more schools, not prisons... hire more teachers, not prison guards. God knows, something needs to be done, and no one in charge seems to know what to do.

I don't have a kid... but I have been a teacher... at many levels. all kids have the ability to reach spectalular levels if they're given direction and proper guidance by the parents, and a good education in school. It's not up to the teachers... but we've gotten soft in this country what with lawsuits and everything else... we've become a "not me" society, blaming everyone but ourselves (even I'm guilty of it to a degree). We've forgotten how to take things upon ourselves to change our surroundings. Seriously, once I figure out what avenue I'm going to take, I'm going to do what I can to help change the system in two arenas, one being education. I don't know what I can accomplish, or how, but I'm willing to get into the mix and try.

Don't mind me, I've been fired up about this for several days now... having had several email conversations with my best friend about this exact same thing.

Okay... I better go do something mindless before i get a headache...

Amanda
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlyn
They used to be that way, until someone (I won't mention names) enacted the No child left behind thing.
I disagree. This has been a problem for a lot longer than Bush has been in office, let alone since the NCLB came into play. I remember the surveys when I was in high school about how stupid Americans are about things like Geography - how some people couldn't even find Canada on the map. That was 15 years ago, and had absolutely nothing to do with Bush. He simply couldn't have screwed up the education of the vast majority of Americans, because he wasn't in office when the vast majority of Americans were in school.

I agree with Amanda. School has more or less become a glorified day-care service. We are expecting miracles from the teachers without giving them the proper tools (i.e. the ability to discipline the kids and maintain order in the classrooms). Kids are unmotivated to learn because so much is just handed to them on a silver platter by parents who can't even discipline their own children, or don't want to (they just want to be their kids' friend because they feel guilty about having to work or something). So we're putting out generations of people with little education, but with the credentials that say they do, and with no coping skills for the real world because self esteem has become more important than math and English.
post #7 of 25
The general grading curves have been around longer than NCLB, but the NCLB act just solidified then.
The curves have been in place since I was in school, where because of the curve 40% overall was passing.

As far as discipline goes, parents can no longer afford to discipline without the looming fear of Child Services being called down upon them.

If people were allowed to (reasonably) discipline and if class sizes smaller/teachers paid what they're worth, this problem would not be the epidemic it has become.
post #8 of 25
my thing is that discipline in a home does not have to include spanking or any other physical punishment. Take my best friend's daughters as an example. They're now 11 and 13, both reasonably well behaved. The have chores, which they've had since they could pretty much walk and talk. They all work together to keep the household clean and organized. Giving them a structure from early on has helped the girls immensely. The 13 year old is going through a goth stage (as 13 year olds are wont to do) and her mom is letting her. This is her way of exerting her independent personality and find where she fits in at her stage of life. It pobably won't last (though I'm going to introduce her to EA Poe... show her true goth... muaahaahaah!), but her mother is allowing it because it helps her become a stronger person. it may look funny or be a negative thing to some people, but me, her mother (we've been best friends since we were 9) and their stepdad (whom they love and adore) are all artistic types, so we understand the teenage angst she's dealing with.

Although there may have been a butt-swat or two when they were toddlers (i do remember when the now 13 year old decided to paint her infant sister's face with nail polish). Though I can't remember a time when it happened. I can ask her though.

There are other methods of discipline that do not include the physical. Granted, I think a swat or two isn't an entirely bad thing (in private and only on the behind), but not over the age of 5 or 6. Use other methods from then on. Structure in the home is absolute key. Parents may try something but they're just as bad as the kids... i.e. if it doesn't work the first time, they give up. It takes time to sink in to the kids' mind that you're the boss. if a parent is wishy-washy about structure and discipline, the kid WILL be running the household (and usually not in a good way) by the time they're 8. Structure and guidance is very important. My best friend was a single mom for many of the early years. Boyfriends came and went, but Mom was BOSS. And the girls knew it.

Chores, structure, and a schedule (homework time, chore time, etc) help enforce a parent's role as boss. No, it doesn't have to be like a militaristic environment. You can certainly have lots of love and play time, but only when everything else is done. My favorite when I was a kid? playing with the microscope and telescope. We also had family game nights where we played Monopoly and Parcheesi. It helped us, despite my families' dysfunction. I only wish my parents had given us more structure. Ah well, C'est la Vie.

Amanda
post #9 of 25
No you are right, but the earlier that structure and discipline is used the better effect it will have.
And some kids are just too darned smart, they don't get their way, they cry abuse to the authorites and wham, an investigation is launched against their poor parents because abuse is (rightfully so) taken very seriously.
Some kids learn early on to exploit that.

We had structure. Enough? Not sure, but we also had an ingrained fear of upsetting "The Mom", and I don't think any of us was ever swatted past the age of 8.
And we were only ever swatted for doing things that made mom afraid for our safety.

Kids lack discipline these days.
Some people are too paranoid to use any form of discipline and a lot are just too lazy.
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlyn
They used to be that way, until someone (I won't mention names) enacted the No child left behind thing.


It was going on before that, to my knowledge. I remember in High School, an interim principal came in and did away with all of the Honors classes because "they make the slower-learning kids feel bad".

Most of my classes were boringly slow-paced before that, but that caused an influx of even more people who didn't know thing one about what was being taught into the classes with the advanced students. We spent so much time reviewing what a lot of us already knew that no one learned much of anything.
post #11 of 25
First off I can only name one of the simpsons ..lmao..

I was amazed I remembered all of it as I never took American Government in school just my own research ...

Schools having been dumbing down since the late 1960's ( according to my mother, she graduated in 1960 ...)

I think you get out of school what you put in. I found college was really dumbed down I hardly had to go to class to get a 3.5 .. I learned on my own way ,way more than I did in class with 20 plus other kids


I was thrilled to graduate in the top half of my class ... the top 5% all had nearly 5.0 aves.. I never cared what the gpa was as long as I was over a 3.0 ...
post #12 of 25
I got 4 of 5- Right to free speech, right to assembly, right to bear arms, and right to free religion.. I always think right to form a militia is one of the 5 for some unknown reason.

I do think it's sad that the majority of people can't even name the 3 most touted ones, and think that it's a RIGHT to drive or whatever. How SAD :/
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlecat
I got 4 of 5- Right to free speech, right to assembly, right to bear arms, and right to free religion.. I always think right to form a militia is one of the 5 for some unknown reason.

I do think it's sad that the majority of people can't even name the 3 most touted ones, and think that it's a RIGHT to drive or whatever. How SAD :/
ACTAULLY, the right to bear arms is a second amendment right and it is in the context of forming a well-regulated militia (and it's always taken out of context by the gun lobby).
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionessrampant
ACTAULLY, the right to bear arms is a second amendment right and it is in the context of forming a well-regulated militia (and it's always taken out of context by the gun lobby).
I would disagree with that. It's taken out of context by the anti-gunners to say that it's only within a militia that the right to bear arms is covered.

Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The PEOPLE are not necessarily all part of the militia, but the PEOPLE are still given the right to keep and bear Arms. The militia is not specified as being the recipient of that right.
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
I would disagree with that. It's taken out of context by the anti-gunners to say that it's only within a militia that the right to bear arms is covered.



The PEOPLE are not necessarily all part of the militia, but the PEOPLE are still given the right to keep and bear Arms. The militia is not specified as being the recipient of that right.
Then why wouldn't they have just simply said "the right of teh people to bear arms shall not be infringed"? Historically speaking, they are pretty clear about the possession of guns to be in defense of the free state...NOT to provide personal or private protection and/or sport. Guns, IMO, are not something that should be taken that lightly and this is, again, IMO, one of the hugely misguided things that has been imbedded in American culture.
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
Perhaps someone ought to start a different thread debating modern interpretation of the second amendment?

That subject is a hot-button one pretty much guaranteed to start a lengthy discussion of its own.
post #17 of 25
To be honest, I am not all surprised by how many Americans aren't familiar with their own rights and freedoms..., only because there is a negative stereotype among the world that Americans don't learn or retain basic knowledge about other cultures or even their own. I think this leads to the US getting the bad rap much of the time...

But I must say that I am either amused or irritated depending on mood when an American still asks me if we have hospitals up here in Canada, or if I know Bob in Toronto or if we ever get summer, or how cold our igloos get at night..
post #18 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
But I must say that I am either amused or irritated depending on mood when an American still asks me if we have hospitals up here in Canada, or if I know Bob in Toronto or if we ever get summer, or how cold our igloos get at night..
When some idiot asks me whether Germany has electricity and running water, I start reciting: "Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, Bayer, Adidas, Haribo, Braun, Siemens, Kärcher, Bosch, ..." That usually shuts them up fast.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
To be honest, I am not all surprised by how many Americans aren't familiar with their own rights and freedoms..., only because there is a negative stereotype among the world that Americans don't learn or retain basic knowledge about other cultures or even their own. I think this leads to the US getting the bad rap much of the time...

But I must say that I am either amused or irritated depending on mood when an American still asks me if we have hospitals up here in Canada, or if I know Bob in Toronto or if we ever get summer, or how cold our igloos get at night..
Igloos!

I'm originally from the US state of New Mexico, and am constantly amazed at how many Americans aren't aware that it's part of the US.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedokitties

I'm originally from the US state of New Mexico, and am constantly amazed at how many Americans aren't aware that it's part of the US.
That is really, genuinely, pitiful.

Did I tell you guys that one of my professors recently accused me of plagarism because "I've never had anyone write so well...it sounds like it came out of a book"

Um...I feel like by the time Americans are 20 and in college, they need to have a firm grasp of the language and be able to write at something better than an 8th grade level.

By the way, I absolutely wrote my own work, which was later proven by turnitin.com
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionessrampant
That is really, genuinely, pitiful.

Did I tell you guys that one of my professors recently accused me of plagarism because "I've never had anyone write so well...it sounds like it came out of a book"

Um...I feel like by the time Americans are 20 and in college, they need to have a firm grasp of the language and be able to write at something better than an 8th grade level.

By the way, I absolutely wrote my own work, which was later proven by turnitin.com
I had the exact same issue in Uni once in a first year Philosophy course!!
This was around the time they introduced a mandatory paper writing course (if you got 80% on the first paper, you were exempt from the course)
I thought this appalling. If you can't write a cohesive thought or paragraph (and you should see some of the dredge I have perused), then you shouldn't be there IMO.
Blarg.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
I had the exact same issue in Uni once in a first year Philosophy course!!
This was around the time they introduced a mandatory paper writing course (if you got 80% on the first paper, you were exempt from the course)
I thought this appalling. If you can't write a cohesive thought or paragraph (and you should see some of the dredge I have perused), then you shouldn't be there IMO.
Blarg.
SOme of us cant write very well due to our brains having issues... For me an 80% on anything other than a science based paper was awesome and it wasnt not trying... I personnally have two section s of the right side of my brain that dont do what I tell them too ... But evan I still have managed to learn a few languages enough to order food , get directions or meet basic needs
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky
SOme of us cant write very well due to our brains having issues... For me an 80% on anything other than a science based paper was awesome and it wasnt not trying... I personnally have two section s of the right side of my brain that dont do what I tell them too ... But evan I still have managed to learn a few languages enough to order food , get directions or meet basic needs
Generally I am referring to people without cognitive health issues.
There are capable, able-bodied people let into Uni without bothering to know basic punctuation or even basic sentence structure....That is ridiculous IMO.
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveysmummy
But I must say that I am either amused or irritated depending on mood when an American still asks me...... how cold our igloos get at night..
I'm the same.

Actually, I tell them because of global warming the government has passed a law that made each citizen move from their igloos to brick house construction. And thank goodness that law was passed because can you imagine with the warmer temperatures how much flooding would result from over 2 million igloos???

Then, of course, our main mode of transportation (dog sled) would be crippled and we would have to walk everywhere.
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Blue
I'm the same.

Actually, I tell them because of global warming the government has passed a law that made each citizen move from their igloos to brick house construction. And thank goodness that law was passed because can you imagine with the warmer temperatures how much flooding would result from over 2 million igloos???

Then, of course, our main mode of transportation (dog sled) would be crippled and we would have to walk everywhere.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › What are your rights? 'D'oh'