Random genetics question

semiferal · Feb 27, 2006

From a genetic standpoint, what is the difference between a brown tabby who looks predominantly brown vs. one who looks predominantly black? I'm not describing it very well, but basically it's the coats that look like they're narrower black stripes on a brown background vs. narrower brown stripes on a black background...

Let me know if you need me to be more specific.

goldenkitty45 · Feb 28, 2006

I refer to them as cold or warm brown tabbies. I like the warm color better. It may be caused by the black/red genes - the warm color comes from the red genes which give you a warmer/reddish tone rather then the cold/black tones.

Not sure but interesting question.

sol · Feb 28, 2006

Rufism. A more reddish brown tabby has more rufism, which probably is polygenetically controlled, than a brown tabby with a more cold color. If they have the same brown color, but one of them have more black it's a question about that one having a wider pattern and I guess that's pollygenetically or epigenetically controlled.

bengalbabe · Mar 1, 2006

For bengals, the term brown tabby and black tabby is the same. It's actually a black tabby that can be a huge array of brown colors-ranging from a highly roufesed (hot) brown to a cat which has little to no roufesing. For instance if you look at my signature, you'll see Metallic Miss-she's considered a brown tabby but she is not really roufesed, at the other end of the spectrum-Harley red, which is also considered a brown tabby but he has lots of roufesing.

goldenkitty45 · Mar 2, 2006

M Miss looks more like a silver then a brown, but it could be the way the light is hitting her

solaritybengals · Mar 2, 2006

Charcoal yah?

bengalbabe · Mar 2, 2006

No, definately not a silver. Neither of her parents are silver and brown can't carry for silver. Yes she is a charcoal brown.

semiferal · Mar 4, 2006

I'm not sure it's rufism. What I'm talking about is the difference between this cat: http://wwww.petfinder.com/fotos/MD00...736753-1-x.jpg

and this one: http://wwww.petfinder.com/fotos/DC08...642087-1-x.jpg

It's not very obvious with mackeral tabbies but with classic tabbies it's very noticeable. I refer to them as "black tabbies" and "brown tabbies" but I know that's technically not correct.

goldenkitty45 · Mar 5, 2006

Both of them are brown tabbies. There is no "black tabbies". One has more of a reddish background in the coat. I've seen it on brown tabby maine coons. When you have a class of 5 or 8 brown tabby main coons, you can see the difference in the shading from "cold" to "warm". The warmer ones have more of a reddish/rufus shading in the base coat.

This is the color description from CFA's american shorthair:

BROWN TABBY (classic, mackerel): ground color brilliant coppery brown. Markings dense black. Lips and chin the same shade as the rings around the eyes. Back of legs black from paw to heel. Nose leather: brick red. Paw pads: black or brown. Eye color: brilliant gold.

and from the CFA maine coon:

BROWN TABBY (classic, mackerel): ground color brilliant coppery brown. Markings dense black. Back of leg black from paw to heel. White trim around lip and chin allowed. Nose leather and paw pads: black or brown desirable.

In both cases the coppery brown is more desirable then the colder brown shading. But both are still considered to be brown tabbies.

mimosa · Mar 5, 2006

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

There is no "black tabbies".

Well, thats a matter of opinion and/or tradition. Genetically, there is no such thing as a browntabby. Such a cat is genetically black with tabby markings. Consider the colours black, chocolate, cinnamon, blue, lilac, fawn. All the other just get -tabby stuck behind them, chocolatetabby, bluetabby etc, why make an exception for black ? Why suddenly call that brown ? It's illogical and confusing.

goldenkitty45 · Mar 5, 2006

You have a point on the color issue. In OSH's you don't call them "black" - you call them "ebony"....it is confusing at times. And the himalayan people call it "flame" point; but the colorpoints/siamese call it "red point"...

I kinda unofficially call some of them "black tabbies" even tho they are technically brown.

I guess the striping is really black on a brown/golden background and there are brown stripes on the "chocolate" tabbies.

You would think that somewhere along the line the breeds would get together and name the colors all the same

bengalbabe · Mar 5, 2006

Originally Posted by Mimosa

Well, thats a matter of opinion and/or tradition. Genetically, there is no such thing as a browntabby. Such a cat is genetically black with tabby markings. Consider the colours black, chocolate, cinnamon, blue, lilac, fawn. All the other just get -tabby stuck behind them, chocolatetabby, bluetabby etc, why make an exception for black ? Why suddenly call that brown ? It's illogical and confusing.

Your right, genetically they are black. Some cats look chocolate,cinnamin,blue and fawn because of the degree of dilution, which is a recessive gene.
That's why the term "brown tabby" in the bengal breed is confusing. Genetically they are black. They have black tail tips and paw pads. Then you have the melenistics-which are black tabbies but without the
angoti <---spelling?) gene.

semiferal · Mar 5, 2006

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Both of them are brown tabbies. There is no "black tabbies". One has more of a reddish background in the coat. I've seen it on brown tabby maine coons. When you have a class of 5 or 8 brown tabby main coons, you can see the difference in the shading from "cold" to "warm". The warmer ones have more of a reddish/rufus shading in the base coat.

This is the color description from CFA's american shorthair:

BROWN TABBY (classic, mackerel): ground color brilliant coppery brown. Markings dense black. Lips and chin the same shade as the rings around the eyes. Back of legs black from paw to heel. Nose leather: brick red. Paw pads: black or brown. Eye color: brilliant gold.

and from the CFA maine coon:

BROWN TABBY (classic, mackerel): ground color brilliant coppery brown. Markings dense black. Back of leg black from paw to heel. White trim around lip and chin allowed. Nose leather and paw pads: black or brown desirable.

In both cases the coppery brown is more desirable then the colder brown shading. But both are still considered to be brown tabbies.

Gotcha...but one of my cats (who I don't have a pic of, unfortunately) is a classic tabby whose ground color is most definitely black. So how would that work? I know technically she's considered a "brown tabby" but she has much more black than brown.

goldenkitty45 · Mar 6, 2006

That's why its so confusing

Perhaps it has more to do with what colors are in the background of the cats - maybe if there are blacks or black/whites in the mix, you tend to have more of the colder brown tabbies...I really don't know. I bred rexes and never had a brown tabby rex (there are very few brown tabby rexes (cornish)). I've seen maybe one and didn't think it was all that pretty. The red tabbies are most dominate when you have a tabby rex.

You mainly see the browns in american shorthair, british shorthair, maine coon and some persians. The brown tabbies come and go in popularity.

semiferal · Mar 9, 2006

Well, I deal exclusively with moggies so brown tabbies and permutations thereof are in abundance here! Why, there are two on the bed with me right now!

*edit* Make that three - I missed the one who was sleeping under the blanket.

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semiferal

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