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In need of information

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
I am at a complete loss and desperately need some help.

Our cat Gretel (who we bought from the petshop) had her first lot of kittens about two and a half years ago, three kittens that were perfectly normal and healthy. However when they reached three weeks old they deteriorated rapidly and within hours had died without any previous warning. Just before they died they had gone quiet and dopey, they looked as though they were sleeping with their eyes open and didn't respond to our calls or cuddles. Then they started to spasm and within minutes were dead, it was extremely cruel. Of course it was a shock, we knew they weren't quite right but did not realise that it was life threatening.

Her next litter and following litter have been perfect and happy, no problems whatsoever. However we have kept a female from each of her next litters, Morgan (from her second litter) gave birth to three kittens and we gave no thought to the previous incident with her mother, we just thought that perhaps it was a birth defect. But like clockwork on the three week mark the kittens did EXACTLY the same thing...went non responsive and died. It was much quicker than the first lot however.It was extremely distressing as my nine year old sister had planned to keep one.

Nobody seems to have any idea what had caused this, I can find no similar problems online either. I am extremely desperate to find a solution to this, as the third female we had gave birth to three kittens as well. We were sick with worry and were told that taking the kittens to a vet would be pointless because there is nothing they can do when they are so little.
However they survived the three week mark and we were over the moon, yet as they hit the five week mark two of the kittens have since died. The went quiet, looked as though they didn't know where they are, their bellies sunk in even though they were extremely fat and round babies, then they spasmed and died. They show no signs that they are even sick until just before they die, they were playing, feeding and exploring!

I feel so helpless as there is nothing I can do, and the fact that I have no idea what causes this is driving me mad. I am so sad to keep experiencing this. Also the mother cats seem to have no idea that their kittens are sick, they seem to act no differently with them I am not sure if this is normal or not.

If anyone has any ideas or can at least point me in the direction of someone that has any ideas I would be extremely grateful. I am very confused at this point in time.


EDIT: Also I thought it might be important to mention that for some very strange reason that when they get their worse the smell like potatoes 0.o
post #2 of 15
Hello, Are they babies still feeding from mom? Are you sure her milk hasn't dried up? From the sounds of it maybe they are having a glucose crisis..what usually happens is they go from perfect fat babies to skinnier, lethargic, unresponsive then seizure (front legs out stiff and head back) then die. If you see them starting to become lethargic I would give them some light karo syrup orally and get them to a vet asap and they will be able to test the BG with drop of blood and let you know if thats the problem. If that's not the problem maybe they will be able to find out what is before you lose anymore babies. Best of luck!
post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PURRLUVR
Hello, Are they babies still feeding from mom? Are you sure her milk hasn't dried up?
I don't think the milk has dried up, the kittens had been feeding off her up until the point where they went lethargic. And I think that sometimes they even feed off one of our other cats who is still producing milk from the litter we have just given away.

Also I should mention that their breathing becomes very rapid and shallow.
post #4 of 15
Hmmm, Its only this one cats kittens this happens to right? Wouldn't think it would be something infectious because other litters could have be effected also. Not to doubt you but are you positive she has milk...they could suckle and still not get any or enough. Mom might also push them away when they are starting to get teeth (3 weeks). Are they having diarrhea or anything else previously? I would still give some karo syrup if they get lethargic, it won't do any harm. If they perk up after it, usually about 5-10 min, then its almost definetaily a Bg (not enough nutrition) problem. The breathing bit...kinda goes along with the seizure and then death BTW is mom all vaccinated, tested and is everyone else in the house healthy? >^..^<
post #5 of 15
The only way to accurately determine what is causing this is to send one of the expired kittens in for a post-mortem examination including necropsy.

Who is the male this queen was bred to? Have you checked into his history at all? Have any of his other kittens ended up this way? Has this girl always been bred to the same male or have there been different sires of her litters?
post #6 of 15
I would definately have a necropsy done..if you couldn't get the kittens to a vet as soon as they become sick for blood work and ect. I wouldn't breed this mom or any of her offspring till you get to the bottom if it. Something is def. wrong if it keeps happening.
post #7 of 15
There are things Dr. can do to help neonates, I work at an emergency clinic and we do it all the time...IV fluids, drugs
post #8 of 15
Have a look at this it might help

http://www.siamese-kittens.com/fadin...n_syndrome.htm

anne
post #9 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gayef
The only way to accurately determine what is causing this is to send one of the expired kittens in for a post-mortem examination including necropsy.

Who is the male this queen was bred to? Have you checked into his history at all? Have any of his other kittens ended up this way? Has this girl always been bred to the same male or have there been different sires of her litters?

The male was one of my cats whom I also bought from a petshop, there were no details on him and unfortunately have no record. As with the oldest female.

However as I have three female cats, with whom each of only the first litter have died and the kittens born henceforth have been completely fine, not even a cold or weepy eyes or trouble eating. Thats why this is such a point of confusion for me, as I cannot understand why it is only with each cats first litter.

Perhaps it is indeed something with the oldest female's history, as the other two females are her daughters and maybe this problem is herriditary.

Thankyou everyone for your help and input usually whenever I ask someone about this I am met with blank stares and hit brick walls
post #10 of 15
This site is generally a pro spay and neuter. Pet shop animals are not generally the quality that breeders would breed. So for you to have 3 females and 1 male...you are bringing a LOT of kittens into the world! And if you are letting her two daughters mate with their father, you are inbreeding.

I'm glad you are posting at TCS, because I think you will learn a lot here...maybe you should go look at some of the posts on the pregnant cat forum, or the breeders forum. Or even look at the stray and rescue forum, to learn more about cat overpopulation.
post #11 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckiboo
This site is generally a pro spay and neuter. Pet shop animals are not generally the quality that breeders would breed. So for you to have 3 females and 1 male...you are bringing a LOT of kittens into the world! And if you are letting her two daughters mate with their father, you are inbreeding.

I'm glad you are posting at TCS, because I think you will learn a lot here...maybe you should go look at some of the posts on the pregnant cat forum, or the breeders forum. Or even look at the stray and rescue forum, to learn more about cat overpopulation.
Thank you! so very true..Every extra minute and dollars of mine is spent on rescue kittens..hundreds of thousands of perfect kittens, including some purebreds are euthanized at shelters every year because there are not enough good homes. Please, please spay and neuter...
post #12 of 15
More then likely, your pet shop cats came from a kitten mill and were genetically inferior (and probably heavily inbred too).

PLEASE spay/neuter everyone you are planning on keeping and you will have no more problems. Why didn't you get the cats spayed?
post #13 of 15
I'd have to say it sounds as though there is a genetic flaw and it would be best for all to have your cats spayed and neutered.

If you want to start breeding you would be best to contact some certified/reputable breeders and learn all you can from them before taking on this arduous task and find a mentor among them. Be prepared to spend a lot of money and make very little if nothing. Most breeders I know of do it more for the love of the breed, ensuring good bloodlines and keeping bad genes out of their cats, because they certainly aren't making money.
post #14 of 15
Jade, please don't feel we are picking on you! I looked at your age...my goodness, you are younger than my oldest daughter! (I feel kinda old, now! )

Life is a learning curve. 10 years ago I got 3 sisters, and kept them outside as barn cats, allowing them to reproduce. I thought it was no problem since I found good homes for all my kittens. But over time, I realized that the kittens who died, and the Momma cat who died, and the rehomed kittens who reproduced....were a problem. So everyone was spayed. Now, when I want kittens, I foster for an agency.

We are not condemning you, just trying to educated you! You are in the right place for that, because TCS is for cat lovers, and you are definitely that!
post #15 of 15
Jade, I don't want to sound nasty, but is there a reason that you have left your cats intact?

If it's an issue of cost (and at our age- I'm also 20- I know money isn't really something that's 100% consistent), you're in luck because Spay Day 2006 is just next week! Several vets in the US are participating along with various shelters and rescues to provide free and low-cost spaying and neutering.

If it's a moral issue, please consider that your cats are at a high risk for cencers and other complications associated with being left intact. Especially since they are of unknown origin the kind thing to do is to spay all the kitties you plan on keeping in order to avoid more problems like you're having now. Also, you won't have to deal with the male spraying and the females caterwauling. It sounds like they're not passig down good genes to the kittens, so it looks like the best thing to do is prevent future kittens. This is hard on the kittnes, the momma cats and obviously you I'm really sorry you'v had to go through this. RIP to your little ones who have faded.

If you ARE interested in breeding, we have some really experienced breeders here who would be more than happy to talk to you about how to start a successful, ethical cattery. Just head over to the breeding forum
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