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way to go Johnny - Page 2

post #31 of 44
This country knows exactly how to incorporate other religions into its culture without taking away from our Western Ways.

In the 50's and 60's, we had more than our fair share of Italians and Greeks come into our country - And now, they are just another part of the furniture. WHY? Because the ASSIMILATED!! Yes, I know to most this is a dirty word, but they took part of their culture and put it together with part of ours and a beautiful friendship was started! Sure, there was some horrible racism that went on, but that happens everywhere.

Not to mention the fairly large Chinese community that we now have living in Australia - They are very happy to celebrate our culture as well as their own, and so people don't mind.

But don't come to this country and expect us to give up what our grandfathers and fathers fought for all those years ago.

If you want to go to a country (any country) and live by their ways and rules, then good on you. And if you want to keep living the way you are accustomed to and do so, so you are not in conflict with the ways of the country you are in, then FANTASTIC!!

But don't go to a country and expect them to give up what they believe in just because it doesn't go along with your way of living. We don't ask you to come here, and vice versa.

I'm more than happy for the Muslim culture to come into this country - As long as they respect the culture that is already here, and say No to the extremist sects of ANY religion.
post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryn
I strongly agree with Obi and the rest, I have nothing more to say to that. And no offence (Truly!), but in my experience, when someone starts a sentence "I'm not a racist.." it usually means they're about to say something very racist and kind of realise that, but just don't want to see themselves in that light. I dont' think most people who have racist attitudes think of themselves as racist, they want to believe they are just being "realistic" or some other BS.
Its a very good point...I hope everyone realizes that "No offense, but...." is EXACTLY the same thing....
post #33 of 44
"We are the Borg. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."

I love Star Trek. It restores some of my dwindling faith in humanity when threads such as this arise.
post #34 of 44
But don't go to a country and expect them to give up what they believe in just because it doesn't go along with your way of living. We don't ask you to come here, and vice versa.

I'm still trying to understand what the Muslim people in Australia are doing that is so disturbing to you. What beliefs are they asking you to give up?

I'm asking in a frame of mind of just trying to understand -- I might agree with you if I did.

I remember a while ago a Muslim woman in Florida got into a scrap with the Florida Motor Vehicle Department because she would not remove her burka or allow her face to be photographed for her driver's licence. This was a major conflict between our laws and her cultural desire to be modest. I don't remember how it was resolved!

Is this the kind of thing you mean?
post #35 of 44
Things like women on our beachs wearing bikinis and Muslim WOMEN (not men) spitting on them because they are not covered from head to toe!

I mean this is just disgusting!!!

Also things like being offended because we have Christmas decorations up, and we have "Christmas" parties at the end of year, and our children have "Christmas" celebrations at school!! They don't want us to have this because it is offense (:censor::censor::censor:???) to them!!

I don't complain if they need to pray in the middle of the day in a certain direction because thats in their faith!!!

And please note THIS IS NOT ALL MUSLIMS!!! I'm not trying to blanket everyone with the same statements.
post #36 of 44
This website mentions some problems Europeans are having -- is this the kind of thing you mean?

http://www.israpundit.com/2006/?p=182

This is the story of the woman in Florida

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...nse-veil_x.htm

The women who spit on other women should be arrested -- that's not OK.

As I mentioned before, we've already given up having "Christmas" celebrations in our schools, not because of Muslims, but mostly because of nonbelievers. Which is OK with me, BTW.

I was more upset by the Danish schools becoming "halal" which I assume is something like "kosher," the separation and segregation of public swimming pools by gender, and by growing anti-Semiticism in Europe.
post #37 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by jane_vernon
Things like women on our beachs wearing bikinis and Muslim WOMEN (not men) spitting on them because they are not covered from head to toe!

I mean this is just disgusting!!!
I think everyone agrees that this kind of behavior is unacceptable. But it's not because they are muslims that they act like that, it's because they're jerks. Sure, they may use religion to justify themselves, but if they were any other religion, they'd just find another way to be self-righteous jerks.
All ethnic/religious/national groups have their share of people who have no manners and are self-righteous, so I don't see why behavior like that should get Australians to be angry at "muslims" unless there was already an underlying racism going on.

Quote:
Also things like being offended because we have Christmas decorations up, and we have "Christmas" parties at the end of year, and our children have "Christmas" celebrations at school!! They don't want us to have this because it is offense (:censor::censor::censor:???) to them!!

I don't complain if they need to pray in the middle of the day in a certain direction because thats in their faith!!!
Ok, I can understand islamic parents not wanting their children to be forced to celebrate Christmas at school. But I'm sure there's only a very small minority that is offended by seeing other people celebrate Christmas. Once again, these few people are jerks.

Quote:
And please note THIS IS NOT ALL MUSLIMS!!! I'm not trying to blanket everyone with the same statements.
It's defenetaly not all muslims. However, associating the problems mentionned above with "muslims" (even if it's a subsection of muslims) rather than with the specific people involved, is categorizing people according to religion and that's discrimination.

For example, if someone made a statement saying that "I hate it when black people listen to loud rap music in their car... they should really learn to be more considerate. I know it's not ALL black people though. Most of them aren't like that" wouldn't that be racist?

Couldn't we all agree to see each other as equals and learn to hate jerks regardless of their ethnic origins or religion?
post #38 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
In the 50's and 60's, we had more than our fair share of Italians and Greeks come into our country - And now, they are just another part of the furniture. WHY? Because the ASSIMILATED!! Yes, I know to most this is a dirty word, but they took part of their culture and put it together with part of ours and a beautiful friendship was started! Sure, there was some horrible racism that went on, but that happens everywhere.

Not to mention the fairly large Chinese community that we now have living in Australia - They are very happy to celebrate our culture as well as their own, and so people don't mind.

exactly, i have nothing against them at all, i think the Italians especially have adapted well and have brought some fantastic things to our country and the Chinese community have too, i especially love their cool little Asian supermarkets and many other things.


Quote:
For example, if someone made a statement saying that "I hate it when black people listen to loud rap music in their car... they should really learn to be more considerate. I know it's not ALL black people though. Most of them aren't like that" wouldn't that be racist?

er no...not if the guys black, he should be proud of being called black, i can't even remember how many times iv'e heard the term white person, i don't see it as racist at all....but then again, i'm not as uptight as some people. muslims get called muslims because that's what they are, i get called a Christian, white, westerner and many other things....does it offend me? no because it's isn't a big deal, people need to take a step back and look at how pathetic this whole thing has become, you can't say anything anymore with out offending someone....well too bad lol, get over it.

also, there are hundreds of black comedians on the comedy channel who's main edge is to make fun of white people...i think it's damn funny, it brings tears to my eyes....yet if a white person tried it, it would be racisit....makes sence huh?
post #39 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandybear
er no...not if the guys black, he should be proud of being called black, i can't even remember how many times iv'e heard the term white person, i don't see it as racist at all....but then again, i'm not as uptight as some people. muslims get called muslims because that's what they are, i get called a Christian, white, westerner and many other things....does it offend me? no because it's isn't a big deal, people need to take a step back and look at how pathetic this whole thing has become, you can't say anything anymore with out offending someone....well too bad lol, get over it.
Her point was, why does one need to say "I hate when BLACK people listen to their rap music loudly"? Would one not be bothered if it was a white person doing it? If it is the music being played loudly that bothers one, then the statement should be "I hate when PEOPLE listen to rap music loudly". Similarly, you probably don't hate it when Muslims spit on you or verbally abuse you, you hate it when ANYONE spits on you and verbally abuses you. Jerky behavior is not limited to one particular ethnic group or one particular religion. Specifying the ethnicity or religion in the statement, even if you follow it with "I know they don't ALL do it", is not necessarily in-and-of-itself discrimination, but it is a red flag that the person saying it has some biases and bigotry floating around their subconcious (or concious).
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi
Her point was, why does one need to say "I hate when BLACK people listen to their rap music loudly"? Would one not be bothered if it was a white person doing it? If it is the music being played loudly that bothers one, then the statement should be "I hate when PEOPLE listen to rap music loudly". Similarly, you probably don't hate it when Muslims spit on you or verbally abuse you, you hate it when ANYONE spits on you and verbally abuses you. Jerky behavior is not limited to one particular ethnic group or one particular religion. Specifying the ethnicity or religion in the statement, even if you follow it with "I know they don't ALL do it", is not necessarily in-and-of-itself discrimination, but it is a red flag that the person saying it has some biases and bigotry floating around their subconcious (or concious).
I had a Christian woman once tell me I was going to hell because was on the pill. Who was this lady? She was my pharmacist, and obviously was quite militant. It goes without saying that she didn't give me my prescription (This story ends a little differently, though, since I had to go over her head and have her supervisor force her to dispense it, which is the law in Illinois (thanks, Rod!). I'm all for people having beliefs-and I told her that if it offended her, I would be happy if she could have gotten another phram tech on duty to help me, which she also refused to do- but I need those pill to help with my cramps and heavy periods as much as I need them to prevent pregnancy. I think medical care is a whole different story than dress or celebrations)

So, how would you feel if I went around going "God, all of those stupid Chrisitans! Not giving in to exactly the way I want to live my life and then telling me I'll go to hell, which I don't even believe in! Chicago is a liberal town, and these conservaitve Christians should just start being liberal or leave because they obviously are just here to rile us poor, innocent leftys up! I mean, I'm sure it's not all of them, but they can just get out of my city."??
post #41 of 44
I think Lunasmom had an interesting point. You are upset that people from other countries are coming in and trying to force you to fit their traditions. You even say
Quote:
But don't come to this country and expect us to give up what our grandfathers and fathers fought for all those years ago.
But didn't your grandfathers and fathers do exactly what you are complaining about when they came to Australia? Didn't they force their religion and customs onto the natives? Why is it okay for your fathers and grandfathers to do this to the natives when it is not okay for others to do this to you? (Just playing devil's advocate!)
post #42 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedokitties
Maybe I'm lost, but how on earth does my pointing out that Islam is a religon and not a race end up getting quoted to indicate racism?
I wasn't implying that about you, that part of my post was totally separate, just like Loveysmummy said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Februa
Its a very good point...I hope everyone realizes that "No offense, but...." is EXACTLY the same thing....
I thought of exactly the same thing when I wrote that, hence "Truly!".
post #43 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotsocats
I think Lunasmom had an interesting point. You are upset that people from other countries are coming in and trying to force you to fit their traditions. You even say But didn't your grandfathers and fathers do exactly what you are complaining about when they came to Australia? Didn't they force their religion and customs onto the natives? Why is it okay for your fathers and grandfathers to do this to the natives when it is not okay for others to do this to you? (Just playing devil's advocate!)

Not really - Buts that because Australia is such a new country.

I don't mind change - But it has to be slow and go along with what has already been established in a country.

I.e. If I move to the Middle East, I'm going to wear the full dress as required by a women in that country, only after many years would I dare to wear less.

And there are many countries where you are put to death just for believing in another religion! Now, I'm glad to say that Australia is not anywhere near those lines, but alternatively, don't force your religion onto us and expect us to forsake the religion that has been the base of this country for the last 200 years.

I'm well aware of the obvious hypocrisy (sp?) that the Aboriginals were in this country first, and therefore we should be more like them. I cannot help what happened when this country was first "colonised" by the British. But we have to live with those consequences now, and I hope we can have a larger proportion of what we do incorporate the Aboriginal beliefs and ways of life. Which we are! We have a lot more Aboriginal awareness now and I'm glad that this has happened.
post #44 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jane_vernon
Not really - Buts that because Australia is such a new country.

I don't mind change - But it has to be slow and go along with what has already been established in a country.

I.e. If I move to the Middle East, I'm going to wear the full dress as required by a women in that country, only after many years would I dare to wear less.

And there are many countries where you are put to death just for believing in another religion! Now, I'm glad to say that Australia is not anywhere near those lines, but alternatively, don't force your religion onto us and expect us to forsake the religion that has been the base of this country for the last 200 years.

I'm well aware of the obvious hypocrisy (sp?) that the Aboriginals were in this country first, and therefore we should be more like them. I cannot help what happened when this country was first "colonised" by the British. But we have to live with those consequences now, and I hope we can have a larger proportion of what we do incorporate the Aboriginal beliefs and ways of life. Which we are! We have a lot more Aboriginal awareness now and I'm glad that this has happened.

well said




Quote:
a Christian woman once tell me I was going to hell because was on the pill. Who was this lady? She was my pharmacist, and obviously was quite militant. It goes without saying that she didn't give me my prescription

that's so wrong, i'm glad you sorted it out in the end, there's nothing wrong with the pill, it's better than having a child you don't really want in my opinion, that was so rude
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