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Proving the point w/out killing the animal!

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I gotta say, I have made a pact w/ myself not to watch movies w/ any animals in it........

No....I am not talking about those "Homeward Bound" type movies where the animal is the hero...(tho i think those movies are kinda lame so I catually dont want hem much either)

I am more so talking about those movies about people, and at some point in the movie the camera pans on a poor cat or dog......I detest these movies because in nearly 80% of them that poor, cute, innocent, sweet animal ends up dead in some gruesome matter........

Some examples..........

1. BoonDock saints.....Now I love this movie...except for that one part where the cat gets shot.....How unnessesary was that......Couldnt they have shot a person instead........

2. Single White Female....ya know they did a great job convincing me she was a psycho....I totally believed it...and heck I was even kinda liking the movie.....Yeah that was until she tossed that adorable golden retriever puppys out a 30-story window........errrrrr

3. Last night I was watching Hide and Seek....w/ Robert Deniro, and Dakota Fanning.....and yes the movie was succsessfully bugging me out.....But then I saw it....a cute little kitty minding his own bussiness.....I imedietly turned to John..."They're going to kill that cat"......and boy was I right....not two sceans later the cat was drowned in the bathtub.........Luckily John was quick enough, and he turned the channel before Rober Deniro pulled out the cats body............

Heck I was really getting into the movie too....but it is unlikely that I will ever finnish it.....all because they felt they couldn't prove their point w/out killing an animal......errrrr

Now I have to say....I have a very strong stomach...and nerves of steel...Nothing bothers me in the gore and guts department besides this.......(oh and the harry potter where ron pukes slugs...I cant watch that either..I get so nauseas.... ).......

THERE IS NO NEED TO KILL ANIMALS!!!!!!!!! no matter the context of the movie......maybe some people get their jollys watching that stuff...but i for one do not......its absolutly sick and unnessesary..........

And thats my peace........
post #2 of 25
I know what you mean Bridget. We have a comedy show over here called "The Catherine Tate Show" and she's hilarious, but last night there was a sketch where she was trying to get her dog to sit on command, but the dog just stood there, then she demonstrated an electric device fitted to it's collar and pressed the button. All you heard was an electrical surge then the next scene was to the dog who was just lying down on the grass.

I know it wasn't for real, but there was nothing funny about it either, especially from an animal lovers point of view
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Geeze I would like to meet the people who think this stuff is funny.....man.....


Oh and on another point....I am not including movies like "old yeller"....I understand what the movie is about....and i understand why they have to shot the dog at the end........I still wont watch it...EVER....but i dont include it
post #4 of 25
I won't watch Where the Red Fern Grows.

Katie
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TNR1
I won't watch Where the Red Fern Grows.

Katie

I have never heard of that......whats it about?
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebula11
I have never heard of that......whats it about?
It's a movie based on a book. We had to read the book & then watched the movie in 9th grade English. It's a story about two Coonhound puppies(I think they were Coonhounds). A young boy purchases the puppies...I can't remember what happens to them, though. All I remember was I was the only one in my class who cried during that movie & I was proud of it. It is such a good movie, though.

I went to Hide & Seek when it was in the movie theater. It was a good movie. I do remember that I had to go to the "bathroom" during that part.
post #7 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by white cat lover

I went to Hide & Seek when it was in the movie theater. It was a good movie. I do remember that I had to go to the "bathroom" during that part.

See thats my point...It would have remained a good movie....w/out them killing the cat
post #8 of 25
Ohhh. Where the Red Fern Grows. That book had me bawling in the end. It was so good. A young boy in the hills saves for over a year to buy the hunting puppies. He trains them to hunt raccoons and bonds with them. His family is poor and his parents dream is to move to the city so their kids can get an education. But they have no money. As the boy and the dogs hunt the parent save the money from the pelts. There is alot more about the bond the dogs and the boy has that is just beautiful. It is funny and heartwarming. The two dogs Little Anne and Big Dan are the salvation of the boy and the family. The end is very sad. Suffice to say the title comes from an Indian ledgend that when someone dies if a Red Fern grows where they are buried it means they went strait to heaven. This book is part of my permanant collection.

Tricia
post #9 of 25
Now, I could get yelled at for what I'm about to say, but here goes:

You do realize that animals are very much protected in the film industry, right? Outside that window the puppy is thrown through is a handler and at the very least a cushion just under the window. I haven't see the movie, but I can pretty safely bet that the puppy, or any other animal on a movie set, is killed.

Yes, animals have been harmed in the past: accidentally. But as with stuntmen and women, the animals have been trained to do this job and are watched over like the proverbial hawk by trainers and handlers. I happen to know a handler, and I can ask her, if you wish, what the procedures are on sets. Animals are protected. Granted, they haven't always been, but they have been for some time now. Maybe 30 or 40 years ago, they weren't. But many of the movies mentioned here are much more recent.

Movies are mostly 'smoke and mirrors.' when a person jumps through a window, there is padding or an air cushion to land on. Same for animals. Yes, it's hard to watch, but there are a LOT of precautions in the film industry today to protect both humans and animals alike.

Amanda
post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RubSluts'Mommy
Now, I could get yelled at for what I'm about to say, but here goes:

You do realize that animals are very much protected in the film industry, right? Outside that window the puppy is thrown through is a handler and at the very least a cushion just under the window. I haven't see the movie, but I can pretty safely bet that the puppy, or any other animal on a movie set, is killed.

Yes, animals have been harmed in the past: accidentally. But as with stuntmen and women, the animals have been trained to do this job and are watched over like the proverbial hawk by trainers and handlers. I happen to know a handler, and I can ask her, if you wish, what the procedures are on sets. Animals are protected. Granted, they haven't always been, but they have been for some time now. Maybe 30 or 40 years ago, they weren't. But many of the movies mentioned here are much more recent.

Movies are mostly 'smoke and mirrors.' when a person jumps through a window, there is padding or an air cushion to land on. Same for animals. Yes, it's hard to watch, but there are a LOT of precautions in the film industry today to protect both humans and animals alike.

Amanda


Oh yes dont misunderstand me.....I know its all fake.....If it wasnt these movie producers and etc......would be burnt at the stake by at least wacko PETA.........

My point is...is that it is a pointless scean to put in....It is not enjoyable to watch....and it doesnt prove the point the movie is trying to convey any more or less to me..........

My problem is simply I dont want to see sceans like that unless its actually integral to the story line.......
post #11 of 25
another interesting factoid, though not about the movie industry, is that serial killers, and other pathological killers, start with animals.

I figured you did know, but trust me, there are some people (adults, too) that don't understand it's fake... that, to me, is more scary than the movies themselves...

Yes, it is establishing the psychotic behavior of the character. But, at least for me, knowing the animals are not actually harmed helps me enjoy the movie. Yes, I hate those scenes... but it's there usually for shock value. The fact it bugs you means it's working. Especially in thriller/suspense movies, every sick/odd/psychotic thing that happens is striuctly for shock value. That's it's purpose. Period. If a character is willing to throw something soft and cute and fluffy out a window, what do you they're gonna do to a human? It's all about building the suspense. Showing what kind of mind this character is. Yeah, it's sick, but it makes it's point. I'm a writer... I had to learn about suspense and creating it.. .heck, still learning...

speaking of psychotic behavior... JoJo is going looney right now. hence her nickname of Freaky Squeaky.

Amanda
post #12 of 25
[QUOTE Movies are mostly 'smoke and mirrors.' when a person jumps through a window, there is padding or an air cushion to land on. Same for animals. Yes, it's hard to watch, but there are a LOT of precautions in the film industry today to protect both humans and animals alike. QUOTE]
That's really not the point. No one is saying the film industry is harming these animals! Her point is the animal cruelty shown is often gratuitous and not necessary to the storyline, just put in for effect.
What bothers me most is when it's done for comic effect. I can understand the scene in "SWF" with the lab puppy - I'm just glad they didn't kill off the gay guy's big fluffy cat too! I was getting pysched for that and was relieved when the cat survived the movie unscathed.
I almost walked out of that Anchorman movie when they threw the dog off the bridge. It was such a lame movie, and the scene was deliberately fake, but the whole point is IT'S NOT FUNNY TO KILL ANIMALS! People caring about animals are often mocked in movies too.
post #13 of 25
Wait, I'm confused. Isn't "Hide and Seek" a horror movie? I can understand being disturbed by movies that use hurting animals for comic effect (the "Anchorman" example), but if you go to see a horror movie . . . well . . . there are going to be some horrible things in there. Horror movies usually contain the mutilation and/or gross destruction of humans and animals alike. One would think the position would be against horror movies or violent movies, not just against those violent movies that include the death of non-human animals. Am I missing something?
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi
Wait, I'm confused. Isn't "Hide and Seek" a horror movie? I can understand being disturbed by movies that use hurting animals for comic effect (the "Anchorman" example), but if you go to see a horror movie . . . well . . . there are going to be some horrible things in there. Horror movies usually contain the mutilation and/or gross destruction of humans and animals alike. One would think the position would be against horror movies or violent movies, not just against those violent movies that include the death of non-human animals. Am I missing something?

I am just stating a personal opinion....I would rather they show horror in a way that excludes killing/mutilation of animals.

And to add to it "Hide and Seek" was quite scary and until that point w/ the drowned cat the movie had no violence whatsoever.......

Maybe I have more respect for animals then I do people...I dont know....in anycase I don't like animal killing/mutilation in movies where it unnessasary to the plot or suspence...or comedy of a movie....
post #15 of 25
Thread Starter 
Also to add Obi...I can think of quite a few movies that fall under the thriller/horror category that do not include violence

Sixth sence, and the others for example...

I think you are refering to thrasher movies like "Freddy Krueger"....which in my opinion are really stupid and lame and not worth watching....

IMO a good thriller/horror movie does not need violence to sell the point and ecspecially not violence towards an animal....which I find sick and disturbing rather than jump out of my seat scary....

post #16 of 25
I have real mixed feelings about it, honestly. On one hand, I really really hate seeing animals hurt even if I know it's not real. And while I don't like the slasher flicks overall (they are just stupid), and don't care for the blood and guts movies, I can handle seeing people tortured and killed in thrillers/horror movies much easier than I can animals.

On the other, having studied serial killers and psychopaths for quite some time, I do know that almost every serial killer starts their torment with animals. I think that many times it does move the story forward in that it does show just how deranged the bad guy really is - that they could hurt such an innocent. The bunny in Fatal Attraction was certainly the turning point, the last semblance of sanity for her character - whatever empathy you may have had for her as the "wronged woman" is gone after that. Harming an animal goes a long way is showing how evil the bad guy is.

But I will definitely agree that showing harm to an animal as humor is NOT funny. And it shouldn't be acceptable, IMO. Showing it in a horror flick as a negative act is one thing, but to show it as funny is what gives the real life jerks ammunition of what to try next.
post #17 of 25
Thread Starter 
Great post Heidi.....

I guess I can see it being exceptable in some situations...I dont like it at all, but understand.....
post #18 of 25
If it advances the storyline (like Heidi mentioned) then I don't usually have a philosophical problem with it.* In movies like SWF, it's supposed to make you realize how insane the bad guy is; it's specifically calculated to make you uncomfortable. That's the whole point. I also agree that animal injuries are not funny, and using them for comic effect is inappropriate. But why is killing an animal more disturbing than killing a human?

*Personally, I dislike violence in movies no matter if it's directed at humans or animals. It skeeves me out, and I don't want to become desensitized to it.
post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnshawn
But why is killing an animal more disturbing than killing a human?

I don't know how to answer this.....It just does disturb me more...Hands down...

Maybe I have been desensitized to it because of the amount of violence on TV.....Maybe animals have a innocence that humans will never have that makes it more disturbing.......Maybe I just respect animals more than humans....I am not sure.....

All I know is that it DOES bother me w/out question........
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnshawn
But why is killing an animal more disturbing than killing a human?
Why is killing a child more disturbing than killing an adult? To me, it's the same answer. A child or an animal is innocent. They could not possibly "deserve" it.
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
Why is killing a child more disturbing than killing an adult? To me, it's the same answer. A child or an animal is innocent. They could not possibly "deserve" it.
I would venture to guess that most people who are raped, stabbed, shot, beaten, burned, or otherwise injured or killed by others do not deserve it.

I will agree that killing or injuring a child or domestic animal is disturbing on a different level because children and pets are supposed to enjoy a protected status. It's painful to be reminded that some do not. Still, there is something very disturbing about the suggestion that another human adult's death or injury is insignificant.
post #22 of 25
Also, I've noticed that animals that are killed in horror flicks are often already dead by the time we see them, or are killed without any suspense on the part of the animal. WE know what's coming, but the animal doesn't. When a human child or adult is murdered, on the other hand, there are usually scenes of tears, pleading . . . gives me the shudders just to think of it. They are emotionally tormented first, and that IMO makes it worse. I don't watch horror movies anymore . . . .
post #23 of 25
Nebula, I'm with you. As I mentioned on another thread, I go to the movies (and watch movies at home) for entertainment. Watching an animal be hurt or killed is NOT entertainment to me. It ruins the movie as far as I'm concrned.
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by evnshawn
I would venture to guess that most people who are raped, stabbed, shot, beaten, burned, or otherwise injured or killed by others do not deserve it.
I was referring specifically to movies and fiction, hence the quotes around "deserve". In real life, no doubt the victims don't deserve it. As a survivor of rape I know that as well or better than most.

However in fiction, many times the victim of crimes, especially murder, often times have done something that justifies their death - whether directly or by karma. Especially in mysteries and thrillers where the point is to find the killer amongst the cast of characters, the victim is often a horrible person - otherwise there wouldn't be so many suspects with valid motives. It builds suspense and allows the audience to empathize with the killer.
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
I was referring specifically to movies and fiction, hence the quotes around "deserve". In real life, no doubt the victims don't deserve it. As a survivor of rape I know that as well or better than most.

However in fiction, many times the victim of crimes, especially murder, often times have done something that justifies their death - whether directly or by karma. Especially in mysteries and thrillers where the point is to find the killer amongst the cast of characters, the victim is often a horrible person - otherwise there wouldn't be so many suspects with valid motives. It builds suspense and allows the audience to empathize with the killer.
Point taken, and I certainly didn't mean to trivialize real suffering. In movies, as opposed to real life, I imagine we empathize with the children and animals mostly because we're "supposed" to. We're just being manipulated by The Great Hollywood Machine.
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