new breeder - persian X ragdoll

hi fellow tcs member,

i'm a new member on board.
currently have a 9 months old persian tom & 5 months old ragdoll queen dat i intend to breed.
am now trying to learn as much as possible from the fellow breeders here.

anyone with experience breeding the duo?
heard from the breeder dat i've the ragdoll from dat it'd be a litter of ragamuffins.
am so looking forward.

lotsa meOw,
kikikoko

Ethically and breeding wise thats bad for both breeds / Ragdolls and Persians
Contact a breed association they will be able to tell you the ethics of breeding and what outcrosses are allowed. It sounds to me like you need to do a lot more research (and i urge you to) before you randomly breed these two breeds.

I recommend reading- Breeding Pedigreed Cats -. I would also try and find a mentor of the breed you like. I dont know if those 2 breeds are allowed for outcross.

I have seen one web site where the woman/man bred himalyans and rags, she called them himma-dollys. I agree with every one else, it would be nothing more then a moggie when you cross two breeds that do not allow out crosses.

Breeding a Persian and Ragdoll, does not make a Ragamuffin. The breeder you got your Ragdoll from is wrong. Ragdolls do not have any "accepted" outcrosses in either CFA or TICA. If you would like to breed Ragamuffins, I suggest that you find a breeder/mentor that is knowledgeable about the breed you wish to work with, to help you on your way.
It is also my understanding that breeds such as the Persian, should be tested for PKD (Polycystic Kidney Disease). Ragdolls should be scanned for HCM, (Hypertrophic Cardiomyapathy).
Your Ragdoll also is too young to be bred. I have a queen here, that is finally ready for her first litter at 18 months. If you are going to breed these two cats regardless of the information given, at least give the Ragdoll female a chance to mature before you breed.
Also Ragdolls AND Ragamuffins, are known for their non-matting, minimal shedding coats. When you put a different breed into the mix, such as a Persian, you are changing one of many traits that some find appealing.
I hope that the responses that you have been given, will make you rethink your decision.

Originally Posted by kikikoko

hi fellow tcs member,

anyone with experience breeding the duo?
heard from the breeder dat i've the ragdoll from dat it'd be a litter of ragamuffins.
am so looking forward.

lotsa meOw,
kikikoko

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If neither breed allows outcrosses, then you'll be breeding moggies.

The kittens will defffinately not be RagaMuffins! The RagaMuffin is it's own breed with it's own standard & you can only produce RagaMuffins by breeding pedigree RagaMuffins. The RagaMuffin standard does allow outcrosses with both Ragdolls & Persians (doll face) & the litter may be registered as RagaMuffins.... but one parent must be a RagaMuffin.

I find it very odd that the Ragdoll breeder that you got your queen from would allow & condone this. Does the Persian breeder also know what your plans are?

Also do your pedigree papers say you have breeding rights? You are starting to get into the ethical issues of breeding.

The crossing of 2 breeds is becoming really popular with dogs. It however, does not make it right from an ethical sense of proper breeding practices.

Its good you are asking first about it and doing research before jumping in.

If you family really wants some kittens from your girl and your breeder has given you the ok. THen maybe your breeder will let you use one of her Ragdoll studs to breed your girl too? This would be a much more accepted way of approaching things.

kikikoko, by your post, I would have to say that you have all the makings to be a fantastic kitten mill. I hope you are aspiring to be much better than that and simply giving off a bad first impression.

Even if a breeder did tell you that that breeding was okay, why are you not looking it up for yourself before deciding to just go at this? What are you plans for the kittens? Have you ever shown or bred with any cats to know what you're doing or looking for? There is significant cost involved in breeding ethically. Your grammer/slang strikes me as being a fairly young person. Is this something that you are doing for spare change?

You need to look into the breed you are interested into producing BEFORE you start popping out babies. The best help you will ever find is from a breeder that you are getting your cats from. I find it very troublesome that you are coming online for help rather than your breeder, that makes me wonder if you are supposed to be breeding these two cats together at all.

Please visit www.tica.org and www.cfainc.org to actually figure out what you're doing before you start doing it. You can't undo these kittens once they are in the world, so please proceed with caution. There are far too many strays dying in a shelter to try and produce them on purpose.

Their matings would only spawn crossbreeds. Normally, when breeding purebreds, one breeds two cats of the same breed with each other, after rigorous reasearch into the standards of the breed in question, and after all involved cats have a wholly clean bill of health. They also do all they can to ensure their safety (not overbreeding the queen, for example. Please do more research into the matter. The breeder in question obviously steered you wrong, which makes me question her responsibility.

I also wonder about the breeder you got the ragdoll from, I have never allowed any of my kittens (except 2 to a established breeder) go as breeders. This breeder can't know what she is talking about, I have never heard any thing so far from the truth as breeding a persian and ragdoll to be a litter of ragamuffins. Ragamuffins are their own breed and can't be "made" by breeding two different breeds, which you hopefully already gotten the point by others post. All you will have is a litter of ragamutts! Please reconcider breeding ANY THING with out being more knowledgable and responsible, but i'm sure you are going to do what you want whether you were urged not to do so by other ethical breeders, so please for the health of the cat wait until she is old enough atleast, 5 months is way too young for her to be having babies, an even better thing to do for your cat would be to spay her and leave the breeding to qualified breeders that know what they are doing.

hi all,

thanks for all the controversial replies on my post.
according to my breeder, the parents of the ragdoll that i've gotten are from america.
as for the ragamuffin part, i've got the knowledge from her as i was deciding between her ragdolls or "ragamuffins". she has told me that her "ragamuffins" were a cross between a ragdoll & a persian.
the breeder is definately aware of my breeding intentions as she even suggested that she would take a look at my litter & get a few for her shop.
i'd get some clarifications from her on this matter.

i've also consulted her on a few occasions on breeding issues. the only reason that i'm coming online for more information is to get myself more prepared for the big day. just like any parent would read up on pregnancy & parenting guides.

if it's for the extra change, i'd have gotten two persians or ragdolls to maintain the breed & fetch a higher fee.
with the kind explanations from all, i'm still prepared to care for my litter of "ragamuffins" or ragamutts to most of u.
am more than happy to give away part of my litter or "THINGS" to the keen feline lovers in my community.

lotsa meOws,
kikikoko

I am not a breeder thus much discussed in this forum is well quite the learning experience for me...

May I ask you if your" raggamuffins" can be registered??

If so is it one of the respected agencys for such like Tica or cfa ???

If you cant say yes to both questions you will be back yard breeding and that IMHO is wrong as the shelters are over run with both mutts and pure breeds that were from backyard breeding....

Originally Posted by kikikoko

fetch a higher fee

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that should never be a reason for breeding in any way shape or form.
if you are going to breed these mixed cats, then realize you are just breeding more versions of all the hundreds of thousands of cats in the shelters who are unwanted and dying.

it would be a whole lot smarter to get another persian or ragdoll and only breed persian to persian or ragdoll to ragdoll. an ethical breeder would not allow you to breed one of their purebred cats to another breed of cat. if she is breeding ragoll and persians together, that is absurd to call them ragamuffins. it would be like if I said I am breeding my Russian Blue to my Bombay and they will be Somalis. You can't mix two different breeds and get an entirely new breed. Just read up on the origins on ragamuffins...

Originally Posted by Jen

that should never be a reason for breeding in any way shape or form.
if you are going to breed these mixed cats, then realize you are just breeding more versions of all the hundreds of thousands of cats in the shelters who are unwanted and dying.

it would be a whole lot smarter to get another persian or ragdoll and only breed persian to persian or ragdoll to ragdoll. an ethical breeder would not allow you to breed one of their purebred cats to another breed of cat. if she is breeding ragoll and persians together, that is absurd to call them ragamuffins. it would be like if I said I am breeding my Russian Blue to my Bombay and they will be Somalis. You can't mix two different breeds and get an entirely new breed. Just read up on the origins on ragamuffins...

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I WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree.
I am not a breeder, so maybe i have no right to step in and say anything, but the breeders I know often lose money in breeding, but they don't care. Its for the love of the breed, not the money.

Obviously from what you are saying the breeder you have got your Ragdoll from is not in any shape ethical or looking after the welfare of there cats. The fact that they think you can get a Ragamuffin from breeding these two cats proves how little they know.

The replies in this thread are not controversila they are from lots of breeders with proper experience of breeding. I have a couple of questions for you. Do you have the Pedigree;s for your ragdoll? Because by the sound of your breeder I would doubt the pedigree of them and without the pedigree they are just Moggies.

Sadly from your comments I dont think you will listen to anyone here and you are just out to try and earn some quick cash with little idea about breeding or the welfare of your cats. I hope but doubt you will come to your senses. Just as a byline how will you be able to sell them as Ragamuffins without any proper papers?

I hope the Moggies that you may breed go to a more loved home and cat welfare based home..

Get your cats Spayed and Neutered. You shouldnt be breeding them its really that simple. and from your other post in the pregancy area you were not willing to seperate young kittens either. and just wanted to let nature take its course. thats not ethical. And has all the makings of a kitten mill.

Originally Posted by kikikoko

as for the ragamuffin part, i've got the knowledge from her as i was deciding between her ragdolls or "ragamuffins". she has told me that her "ragamuffins" were a cross between a ragdoll & a persian.
lotsa meOws,
kikikoko

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Your Ragdoll breeder is definately wrong, you can not get a RagaMuffin by crossing a Ragdoll & a Persian! Why don't you do your own research instead of believing everything this person tells you.

Here's a link to the RAG (RagaMuffin Association Group) website. Just email any of the RAG members & ask them about you breeder's Persian x Ragdoll = RagaMuffin theory. If you visit their websites, you can learn all about RagaMuffins.... some of the breeders listed there are founding breeders who worked long & hard to create the breed.

If breeding cats is really something you want to do, then make it something you can feel proud of. Getting quality breeding cats isnt' something you can just begin over night, it takes years of research and obtaining quality lines. You mention if you had the money, you would have bred Persian to Persian or Ragdoll to Ragdoll.
I don't want to be rude, but if you don't have the money to get another cat of the same breed, what will you do if any complications occur in pregnancy or delivery? What if she needs an emergency c-section? Can you afford the vet care that she could possibly need? Can you afford to miss a few days of work or school, to feed the babies until the Momma cat is up to taking care of them again? These are just a few of the things that could go wrong. What about the needed vet trips, vaccinations, worming costs? Are you going to spay and neuter these kittens before placing them?
If experiencing a cat birth and raising kittens is important to you, what about raising kittens from your local shelter. They always could use more helping hands. You can spay and neuter your current cats and if after fostering and raising a few litters is something you enjoy, then take your time and save up to get a quality breeding pair from an ethical breeder, that will take the time to steer you in the right direction, and answer all of the questions that you will have.
You also seem to acknowledge the importance to maintain the breed in your post, so certainly you can understand the reason so many members (breeders and non-breeders) have replied, to urge you to do the ethical thing.
I can also tell you even if you do decide to breed Persian to Persian or Ragdoll to Ragdoll, that "fetching a higher fee" isn't something that happens. It might sound funny to some when breeders say, they are lucky to break even. They are being honest.
What cat organization is the Persian and Ragdoll registered through? Is your breeder a registered cattery through any cat organizations?

If you are trying to get them adopted, I am very interested in this mix. 

Ambookat said:

If you are trying to get them adopted, I am very interested in this mix. 

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Hi Ambookat,

Welcome to the site

This is an old thread from 2006 and doubt the OP and the other members who posted in this thread are even active on this forum anymore