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I'm surprised that there's no thread about the Muhammed Cartoons yet... - Page 2

post #31 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
Did anyone else hear about the idiotic thing an Italian official did?



http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/africa...ons/index.html

This caused protesters to burn the Italian embassy in Libya.

Seriously, how flippin' stupid can you be? Regardless of how you feel about whether the reaction is justified - that is just beyond insensitive and.....stupid! Like they will possibly have a positive reaction?!?!
I quote my best friend when I say this: Everyone involved is a moron.
post #32 of 49
How does wearing a t-shirt "cause" protesters to burn an embassy in Libya?

The protesters chose to respond violently to something they felt was an affront to their beliefs by burning an embassy and attacking people and property - no one forced them to respond in that manner.

This is all so stupid. These violent responses really don't do anything to instill respect for the religion these people are supposedly representing. These "respect our religion or we'll kill you!' tactics sound a lot like the times of the Inquisition, and such behavior serves only to instill disdain in me for any religious leaders that would condone (and in many cases promote) it, and unfortunately serves to taint the religion itself by association in the eyes of many people.

I don't run out and burn things down, smash cars and attack people when I see someone depicting Jesus or God in an irreverent way - and yes I've seen that many times in many places, it's just that in my culture when people feel their religion is being disrespected they usually respond with peaceful protest, boycotts and such, rather than violence. So such blasphemous depictions usually don't make the world news - they either go on with minimal press, or are shut down because of peaceful protest or economic pressure.

To their credit, many Muslims offended by the cartoons have chosen those same tactics over violence - it's just that those responses aren't making the TV news (peaceful protests don't boost ratings as much as mayhem).
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom
The whole point of Islam is that it is a peaceful religion, as with any religion.
I constantly defend Muslims against the stereotypes placed against them because of the radical few who seem to cause all the problems. I feel I am losing my patience. I keep thinking, when do the peaceful majority of Muslims become outraged? When are they going to march on streets in protest and anger at those who are making their peaceful religion an object of global hatred? In the New York Times several years ago, Islamic Salman Rushdie wrote "As their ancient, deeply civilized culture of love, art and philosophical reflection is hijacked by paranoiacs, racists, liars, male supremacists, tyrants, fanatics and violence junkies, why are they not screaming?" (see
http://www.salon.com/books/int/2002/...die/index.html for further reading)
And Why not indeed?
When I think of the acts that have been ignored by the peaceful majority, it makes my stomach sink.
Beating burned bodies of western civilians with their shoes and hanging them off a bridge.
Blocking the exit of a burning school and letting the girls die because their faces were exposed.
Firing of rocket powered grenades into schools full of children in Isreal....How big would the list become if I included all other shameful acts?
Why no outrage for these issues? Is it not the same as the peaceful ones accepting the violent ones and their acts as "ok"? How can a comic be more fundamentally against your religion than the murder of innocent children? I dont know. The so called peaceful Muslims need to make a stand or their religion will continue to incite Hatred, will continue to be the source of global disdain. Given their actions and inactions, how could it really be anything else?
post #34 of 49
Well said.

I found this article very interesting...

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/200...0253-3900r.htm
post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinandSeamus
Well said.

I found this article very interesting...

http://washingtontimes.com/op-ed/200...0253-3900r.htm
Very interesting - thank you for posting that.

Since it's an editorial, I went off on an Internet search yesterday for info to corroborate or refute it, and the search turned up a huge amount of interesting links & info, including this page:
http://www.dhimmi.com/
If you have a strong stomach, click the link just below the world map in the center-right portion of the page for some very disturbing examples of the result of true religious intolerance and oppression.
post #36 of 49
I checked out that website. It's full of information. Did you ever read the book by the muslim woman that I think was titled, "The Trouble with Islam"? I haven't but I've heard some interviews with her. She thinks part of the problem stems from the fact that while Jews and Christians may be 'people of the book' and their prophets acknowledged as such, Mohammed was the last prophet and therefore his teachings from God are the most up-to-date and the correct. She's had numerous death threats and has had to outfit her home with bulletproof windows and such.
post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom
I can see their point of view though. I would pretty angered too if my God or higher being were depicted in a violent manner. The whole point of Islam is that it is a peaceful religion, as with any religion. I mean, would christian find it funny if a cartoon of Jesus had a suicide bomb strapped to him with the caption "and he died for our sins"? It would disgust christians all over.
Just FWIW, but Mohammed isn't the God or higher power in Islamic/Muslim tradition. God is "Allah" and Mohammed is the "prophet" who was sent by Allah to preach his "word"
post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by pandybear
i think they are pathetic and overreacted to the whole thing, they glorify killing yet they get offended by a cartoon? a little hypocritical if you ask me.

if Christians retaliated every time Jesus was in a cartoon we would get told to get a sense of humor, Jesus has stared in south park and even has his own dashboard figure, i find that a little offensive but i don't cause a big deal out of it, if i don't like it i don't look at it, simple.

i think they are fanatical and it amazes me how they can complain about one little cartoon when they kill people all the time in the name of religion.

yes the cartoon was offensive to them but if they can justify killing people over it then they aren't the sort of people i can respect, human life is important as far as i'm concerned, a lot more so than some stupid cartoon.
I agree.
And people who want to kill will find any old excuse. This is lame.
And I find it utterly astounding that some are making excuses for the offenders. WOW
post #39 of 49
I don't see ANYONE making "excuses" for violence and killing.
I DO however see people making an EFFORT to understand why a culture totally alien to their own would have such a strongly negative reaction to something Westerners see as no big deal.
By understanding, MAYBE we can prevent such run-ins in the future and educate the perceived enemy to our point of view on the subject.
I don't think the rioters are all that different than the people expressing outrage over "happy holidays", Brokeback Mountain and gay marriage. The only thing keeping them from turning violent is cultural context. Slap them down in the middle east, and they'd be rioting along with the rest of them.
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoe'n'MissKitty
I don't see ANYONE making "excuses" for violence and killing.
I DO however see people making an EFFORT to understand why a culture totally alien to their own would have such a strongly negative reaction to something Westerners see as no big deal.
By understanding, MAYBE we can prevent such run-ins in the future and educate the perceived enemy to our point of view on the subject.
I don't think the rioters are all that different than the people expressing outrage over "happy holidays", Brokeback Mountain and gay marriage. The only thing keeping them from turning violent is cultural context. Slap them down in the middle east, and they'd be rioting along with the rest of them.
Oh please, I don't see anyone out burning bldgs and killing over "happy holidays" BB Mtsn and gay marriage. That is stretching is quite a bit IMO
post #41 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
Oh please, I don't see anyone out burning bldgs and killing over "happy holidays" BB Mtsn and gay marriage. That is stretching is quite a bit IMO
Oh, I think the whole gay thing has struck a nerve with the more conservative people in this country. Does the Matthew Shepherd murder ring any bells?
post #42 of 49
No, I don't know about that case. I just don't think it can be compared and I have a right to my opinion as you do.
post #43 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
No, I don't know about that case. I just don't think it can be compared and I have a right to my opinion as you do.
Here's a good link: http://www.geocities.com/corkymcg/crime/proj005.html
I'm really surprised you haven't heard about it. It was absolutely terrible and quite frankly, made me ashamed to be human.

This link talks about the occurrence of bias-motivated crimes in this country, which is in the thousands and consistently on the rise. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2004/section1.htm

Do you still agree with what you said earlier about there being no violent uproar from our/your side that can be compared to what fundamentalist muslims are doing in response to the cartoons? Could it just be a question of what gets reported and what the media wants us to think?
post #44 of 49
This editorial from my local paper gives an interseting perspective on the whole mess.
http://wvgazette.com/section/Editori...int/2006022112

And NO WHERE did I say that people were rioting over happy holidays, etc. I said that if the people who are all bent out of shape over that stuff were raised in a different culture, they would be, and that the only thing keeping them from it were the societal constraints of Western culture. So I don't see it as a strech at all. They're expressing their discontent in a way that's acceptible in Western culture. The rioters are expressing theirs in a way that's acceptible in their culture.
post #45 of 49
I just do not find the comparisons to be equal is all. I think when you start burning bldgs you are a tad more than a "rioter" you are progressing to terrorism. JMHO
post #46 of 49
So dumb kids who go nuts and tear stuff up and set fire to things after college football games, are they borderline terrorists?
The rioters are not terrorists. (Some of them may be budding international criminals, but the vast majority are just regular citizens who have been riled up by their political leaders.) They are expressing anger and frustration in a way that is acceptible in their culture. You'd be standing there golding a sign, they're throwing rocks and Molotov cocktails. That doesn't make it RIGHT, but it helps to see where they are coming from and to empathize with them a little, even if you don't agree with their means of expression (which as a non-violent person I don't, by the way).

Please, read the article I linked to. If the page comes up "members only", registration is free and comes with no spam.
It's brief but eye-opening.

Empathy for our fellow humans is a big part of what makes us human. Without it, we are lower than the people we proclaim to be better than.
post #47 of 49
I was shocked to hear that they set fire to the Italian consulate in Lybia or was it Syria? either one.... Infact my family is in danger from the terrorists because of my dads status and it

PEES ME OFF!


WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER!!!!
post #48 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by fwan
I was shocked to hear that they set fire to the Italian consulate in Lybia or was it Syria? either one.... Infact my family is in danger from the terrorists because of my dads status and it

PEES ME OFF!


WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER!!!!
It was Libya, and the trigger was the Italian minister who sported a T-shirt with the caricatures on television. He has since resigned. Since Libya is a former Italian colony, resentments from the past probably played a big role, as did Italy's complaints that Libya was doing little to stem the flow of illegal immigrants from Africa into Italy.
post #49 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
It was Libya, and the trigger was the Italian minister who sported a T-shirt with the caricatures on television. He has since resigned. Since Libya is a former Italian colony, resentments from the past probably played a big role, as did Italy's complaints that Libya was doing little to stem the flow of illegal immigrants from Africa into Italy.
Thats right, they have high security now since they moved offices here, its just like going through the airport
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