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Siamese pedigree question (CFA)

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
Hi Breeders,

I have a question about a pedigree I am looking at and I hope someone here can help me.
I learned how to read a ped at http://www.pandecats.com/x/how_to_read_a_pedigree.htm
so on to my question: CFA certified ped and most of the cats are numbered with the 0270-0277 numbers but there are some that have strange numbers that I can't find an explaination for on the CFA website.http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/color-prefix.html

What is SOF, SOL2 ?
Thank you to anyone who can help explain this for me.
post #2 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia mouse
Hi Breeders,

I have a question about a pedigree I am looking at and I hope someone here can help me.
I learned how to read a ped at http://www.pandecats.com/x/how_to_read_a_pedigree.htm
so on to my question: CFA certified ped and most of the cats are numbered with the 0270-0277 numbers but there are some that have strange numbers that I can't find an explaination for on the CFA website.http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/color-prefix.html

What is SOF, SOL2 ?
Thank you to anyone who can help explain this for me.
In CFA, the even numbers are listed for Siamese males, and the Siamese females would be listed with odd numbers. (i.e. 0271).

It's the same with Russian Blues, and in fact with all cats. The Russian Blue male is listed in the chart, as number 0500. The female is 0501, but is not listed.

Hope that helps.
post #3 of 21
The SOF and SOL2 may be a foreign cat registry. I'm not really sure. Can you email me a copy of the pedigree or the cat(s) in question? I know some of the major Siamese catterys in CFA. I also have connections with some Siamese breeders that might be able to help.

I"m guessing on this but the SOL2 sounds like it could be "siamese longhair" or "balanese" in America - that's why I'm thinking its a foreign country siamese.
post #4 of 21
Thread Starter 
I'm wondering about why this would be listed in a CFA certified pedigree. I thought only Siamese were allowed and they had to have eight generations. With CFA if a Cat is transfered in to the CFA wouldn't it be shown as not on cfa records for the Sire and Dam? This certificate doesn't show an issue date but the cat its for was born in 2001 and these cats are in the 5th generation. the kitten born of White Water Sand and Syringa ling was born in 1981.


Sorry the bottom is cut off it doesn't fit on my scanner right. Syringa ling is SOF-F81-0079-3 and Musume-San is SOF-F77_1143-2
post #5 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespacat
In CFA, the even numbers are listed for Siamese males, and the Siamese females would be listed with odd numbers. (i.e. 0271).

It's the same with Russian Blues, and in fact with all cats. The Russian Blue male is listed in the chart, as number 0500. The female is 0501, but is not listed.

Hope that helps.
I understand that but these numbers do not contain the regular CFA numbers, thats why I am confused I'm wanting to know if the CFA used any special numbers at any time that they don't show on their website? It was my understanding that CFA doesn't use foreign numbers in their Certified pedigrees and that the cat is given a CFA number when transfered in and the ancestors are show as not on CFA records....So what are these numbers?
post #6 of 21
CFA has a message board on yahoo and there is also probably a Siamese group one. I am a member of the CFA one I have never posted on it yet tho and I am a member or the Somali group. I think this is a good question for both the CFA or the Siamese group.
post #7 of 21
I'd be interested in knowing what the answer is We'll all learn something - I've never seen that on a CFA pedigree. Are you SURE the cats are CFA registered?
post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
Yes I am sure I ordered the pedigree from the CFA myself. I'll see if I can find the CFA board and let you know what they say.
post #9 of 21
They are ACFA registration numbers. I will try to check with my resource to see if she knows how to interpret them.
post #10 of 21
They don't seem to look like ACFA numbers to me. I don't remember that coding in ACFA siamese unless its either a very old coding or very new. I showed ACFA
post #11 of 21
When I asked my mentor if she recognized these numbers, she looked on the registrations for a couple of her cats registered with ACFA and they were quite similar so I am almost 100% certain they are ACFA numbers. I do think they may be a little older since the second series of numbers (the S79, S78, F77 etc.) appear to be the year of birth for those cats. So, if I had to guess, I would say we are looking at registration numbers for cats born in the mid- to late seventies.
post #12 of 21
OK, I think I may have some answers now ...

These absolutely are ACFA reg numbers. Their numbering system has changed to seven digits in order to allow for gender distinction, but these numbers can be roughly interpreted as follows:

Using Whitewater Sand as an example ...

S0F-S79-2683 - The first S denotes a Siamese. The Zero F denotes a Frost Point. The S79 is the generation code and year the cat was registered. So, in Whitewater Sand's case, he was registered as a Siamese Frost Point kitten born of ACFA registered parents and registered in 1979 as the 2683'rd cat in that breed category.

Looking now at Windyview's Chantel Bleu, this cat was a Siamese Blue Lynxpoint registered in 1978 as the kitten of ACFA registered parents and was the 1726th kitten registered in that breed category.

Timpani Singh is a little different, but this cat is a Siamese Frost Point, out of a 2nd generation foundation cat and registered in 1977.

Syringa Ling is a Siamese Frost Point, out of a 3rd generation foundation cat and registered in 1981.

Musume-San is a Siamese Frost Point, out of a 2nd generation foundation cat and registered in 1977.

Interesting - and a GREAT question, by the way.
post #13 of 21
Thanks, I was not showing in ACFA till in the 80's and 90's - that's why it didn't look "right" to me
post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thank you, Yours was a much better explaination then the one I got from the linechasers. Do you, or anyone, know if there is a webpage that lists old codes and what they refer to?

I am still wondering about the CFA showing these codes on their pedigrees. I had been told that the CFA will give the registered cat a CFA number and it ancestors who were registered with the other registry would be listed as "not on CFA records". Can anyone with experience reading lines comment on this?

Thank you so much.
post #15 of 21
All my pedigreed cats were either registered CFA or dual registration. Most good breeders will register in CFA first, even if they don't ever show there. Odd that the breeder didn't do that.

However, I think CFA would list the cat's name on paper but add the note as they told you. Wouldn't matter that much.

Are you buying a kitten from this breeder as showable and/or breedable?
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Most good breeders will register in CFA first, even if they don't ever show there. Odd that the breeder didn't do that.
This is a very broad statement and one that I feel is unfair to a lot of breeders. Breeders choose clubs for differing reasons and not all the registry clubs can be compared equally. Time and circumstance in the past was not what it is today. BTW my cat of choice is SIamese and my registry of choice is the CFA.

I am a fancier of old lines. I am new to linechaseing but find that I really enjoy it. I am trying to learn more about registries past and present and how they did things with regards to transfers, etc.

I have asked about this on an oldstyle forum and a linechasers group I have been given differing information so I am trying to get a consensus from those with experience reading older sections of pedigrees. Genes of the past will resurface so I think it is important to learn and preserve as much as we can about the cats of old.

Re: CFA pedigrees a Linechaser told me CFA transfers via certified pedigree will show the parents only. They are added into the record w/ their other registry reg#(no titles) When ordering a CFA certified pedigree on a cat that has such ancestors, you will receive photo copies of any certified pedigrees submitted. The titles on these will be blacked out.
post #17 of 21
CFA is one of the oldest and best known WORLD WIDE. Like I said, even if you don't show in that association for whatever reason, good breeders do register their cats there.

You can show your cats in other associations if you don't like CFA, but IMO you should register (if CFA accepts the registration). It saves a lot of headaches later

I'm not being unfair to any breeder. I prefer showing in ACFA but my cats were always registered in both CFA and ACFA (have shown to grand in CFA too).
post #18 of 21
Thread Starter 
Does anyone know when the CFA adopted the current numbering for colorpoint shorthair cats? They are now 4 digits beginning with either 2 or 5.
Were they at one time numbered with numbers within the Siamese numbers 0279 or 0293 or 0252 would older pedigrees use these Siamese like numbers or has the CFA transfered all older ones over?

Thank you to anyone who knows and shares the information
post #19 of 21
I'll see what I can find out over the weekend - my breeder/mentor is a CFA history knowledge wizard and if anyone will know, my bet is that she will.

~gf~
post #20 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thank you Gaye. I really appreciate the help.
post #21 of 21
Thread Starter 
If anyone is interested, I learned from Kris a linechaser that the 22xx series started when the CPSH was accepted as a separate breed rather that just colors being added to the Siamese breed.

The 22xx series was in place at the time that CFA became computerised - approx 1978. Also cats born 1974 and forward have 22xx series numbers.

The 52xx & 53xx numbered cats have oriental ancestry and are the result of a short term ability to transfer pointed OSH to the CPSH registry/genepool. This was approximately 2000, cats with 53xx numbers indicating Silver, Smoke, Cinnamon, Fawn, Bi-Color ancestry within 5 generations.
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