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Canadian Electoral Debate

post #1 of 61
1/9/06 at 6:16pm
Thread Starter 
As we are having our federal election in just a couple of weeks time, tonight is the debate where the 4 party leaders of our 4 major political parties make their last attempt at dissuading or pursuading voters current views with their economic "promises".

The party I support, who happen to have the most charismatic leader, are in dire need of votes as the party's status is on shaky ground. Charisma doesn't always cut it, and although the party supports unionized labour and rejects multi-tiered health care, I don't even support everything the party stands for. But it's the lesser of the evils, IMO, and they still have my vote.

Any Canadians here watch the debate? Any views on the current leaders, and do you firmly support any party?
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post #2 of 61
1/9/06 at 7:00pm
Just finished watching it and haven't changed my vote.
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post #3 of 61
1/9/06 at 7:11pm
I didn't watch it - was working on a deadline for work.

I have worked in politics since I was 17 and there is an air of 'difference' in this election for some reason, maybe because I am not involved in it and surrounded by less political people, or maybe it is just different. I am glad that the smear campaigns have been kept down a bit compared to a lot of elections I have seen around the world.

I have to say though, if I did have a vote, I am not sure who I would vote for, back home I have a definite political allegiance, but the same values do not apply to any party here and there is little about either of the two main party's leaders that I find charasmatic and to be honest, IMO, they both seem to lack some major leadership skills in some ways.

What did interest me is the latest poll showing the Conservatives ahead by 9 points, although we all know polls can be deceiving, but in general still surprising.
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post #4 of 61
1/9/06 at 8:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icklemiss21
I didn't watch it - was working on a deadline for work.

I have worked in politics since I was 17 and there is an air of 'difference' in this election for some reason, maybe because I am not involved in it and surrounded by less political people, or maybe it is just different. I am glad that the smear campaigns have been kept down a bit compared to a lot of elections I have seen around the world.

I have to say though, if I did have a vote, I am not sure who I would vote for, back home I have a definite political allegiance, but the same values do not apply to any party here and there is little about either of the two main party's leaders that I find charasmatic and to be honest, IMO, they both seem to lack some major leadership skills in some ways.

What did interest me is the latest poll showing the Conservatives ahead by 9 points, although we all know polls can be deceiving, but in general still surprising.
I would agree that this debate was different -- more civilized, yet lively -- I suppose.

The charismatic leader I was referring to was neither of the leaders mentioned above. To Harper's credit, his performance tonight will likely influence voters who are still on the fence. I have a gut feeling these are Martin's final days as Prime Minister, and I'm certainly not looking to having a Conservative government, to say the least.

I really like how Layton generates such confidence in the debates. I agree with him when he mentioned recently he anticipates seeing a lot more orange in BC.
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post #5 of 61
1/10/06 at 3:05am
I think its obvious who the only charasmatic leader is, personally I don't agree with his politics, but the rest could learn from him.

I don't know, I have reservations about both Martin and Harper as PM, the Conservatives seem to have little confidence in themselves as a Party, which became more obvious with their reaction to the whole Stronach thing and the I think that the whole sponsorship scandal (regardless of whether those MPs are even running for re-election) will dominate over the Liberals making them seem very untrustworthy and cause problems in a minority government
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post #6 of 61
1/10/06 at 6:15am
The debate last night was a little more spirited then the first. For me there is still something about Harper that doesn't ring true, maybe seems a little forced or faked (like his smile). I found he skirted around a few issues that I really wanted to know his feelings for. For one...the whole "notwithstanding clause" issue around same-sex marriages and other charter rights. He seems like he wouldn't think twice about overturning the supreme courts ruling. I think once a government starts doing that....they might not stop. The other is his policy when it comes to international relations. Some previous comments of his seem to ring that he's not all that "proud" to be a Canadian.

I'm worried in seeing the polls that he might have enough to form a majority. I fear what four years of Harper would do to this country.

(just MO)
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post #7 of 61
1/10/06 at 8:31am
Quote:
I'm worried in seeing the polls that he might have enough to form a majority. I fear what four years of Harper would do to this country.

I totally agree with that statement. I am truly scared of what will happen to this country if Stephen Harper is elected PM.

I am still on the fence about who to vote for, between Liberals and NDP. I don't have a lot of trust in the Liberals right now and I agree with some of the stances that NDP have but... I don't know...
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post #8 of 61
1/10/06 at 8:31am
I noticed that Layton and Harper avoided actually answering the question asked and instead started touting their party or blaming Martin for something. I think Martin inherited a mess and is unfortunately taking a beating for it. Of the 3 of them, I would still prefer Martin over Layton or Harper. I don't see Harper as being genuine and Layton scares the heck out of me. Layton and Harper both took shots at Martin and I told myself before the debate that whichever leader did the least mud-slinging was where my vote would be swayed.

It's politics - they ALL promise things that we know from experience they are not going to deliver.

The election is nearing - they ALL are going to promise things that we know from experience they are not going to deliver.

When it gets right down to the nitty-gritty - they are ALL the same once they get into power.

I think they go into it believing they will do better, but once they get there they realize it isn't so easy to fix all the things that were wrong before they got there and no matter what they do, they are going to be criticized by some folks.
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post #9 of 61
1/10/06 at 10:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite

I think they go into it believing they will do better, but once they get there they realize it isn't so easy to fix all the things that were wrong before they got there and no matter what they do, they are going to be criticized by some folks.

I totally agree. It seems so easy to fix problems when you are on the outside looking in. And that makes it really easy to criticize those that are supposed to be fixing things. I wonder what harper will say when he tries to get things done. Though i pray he doesn't get that chance!
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post #10 of 61
1/10/06 at 7:38pm
Well said, Yosemite and Renny.
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post #11 of 61
1/20/06 at 7:45am
Bumping this to see how people feel with just a few days left before the election... also what do people think of the whole 'eat your ballot paper as a protest to governments / rigged elections /other cause' and the fact that Elections Canada have set up a penalty for this of 3 years in jail or up to $3000 fine. I heard about this a few weeks ago but it recently resurfaced with the reply by Elections Canada.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cpress/20060...NqBHNlYwM3Mzc-
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post #12 of 61
1/20/06 at 8:28am
I think this is one of the first elections that I am anticipating with some trepidation (and a bit of dread). Seeing the number of conservative signs on the lawns of people's houses i am getting worried that canadians aren't seeing through his act. The conservative party is the only party that has told their candidates not to respond to questionnaires from student groups, environmental organizations, or other social organisations.

That just screams to me "HIDING SOMETHING". I greatly fear that they are hiding the truth behind their agenda.
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post #13 of 61
1/20/06 at 8:37am
Yeah -- Harper gives me the willies! Even if I didn't know who I want to vote FOR, I certainly know who to vote AGAINST.
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post #14 of 61
1/20/06 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel47
Yeah -- Harper gives me the willies! Even if I didn't know who I want to vote FOR, I certainly know who to vote AGAINST.
I'm glad to hear that it's not just me!
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post #15 of 61
1/20/06 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapunzel47
Yeah -- Harper gives me the willies! Even if I didn't know who I want to vote FOR, I certainly know who to vote AGAINST.
I'm right there with you...that guy is up to no good, I can feel it. I sure know who I won't be voting for on Monday!
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post #16 of 61
1/20/06 at 10:59am
When is the Canadian election?
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post #17 of 61
1/20/06 at 11:00am
My real fear is that folks are going to vote for Harper for all the wrong reasons - i.e., to ensure Martin doesn't get back in.

I hate the way our elections work. I like the Conservative candidate for our area very much, but if I vote for him I'm voting for Harper.

I'd love to just be able to vote for our Prime Minister in the Federal Election and vote for our local fellow in the Provincial.

Right now I'm between a rock and a hard place and am uncertain how I'm going to vote.
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post #18 of 61
1/20/06 at 11:16am
Yosemite, you are not the first person I have heard say this. (What scares me is a few people I have met who thought they DID get two votes, one for the PM and on for the MP). We were today talking about how votes for the minor parties are not wasted votes as it gives them a larger election budget to be a real threat to the main parties in future elctions, however I see that this idea is not widespread.

Even at work there are people not voting for who they think is best for their constituency because they don't like Martin or Harper. And these are politically involved people.

Personally, I like the local Conservative too, he has done a lot for our constituency as a local councillor and is well liked and connected with businesses and individuals alike. BUT I don't like Harper.

However, after working in politics, I know how easily party leaders fall and how little say they actually have in their parties, so I know Harper isn't everything.

ckblv, the election is Monday
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post #19 of 61
1/20/06 at 4:35pm
I will be out voting on Monday, and I know who I will be voting for: Not Harper (and just to be fully honest, Ill probably cast my vote Liberal, though the NDP dude has a chance...will likely make up mind last minute). Voting against Harper has always been clear to me, because in the absence of all scandal, even in the presence of all scandal, I DO NOT want a conservative government running the country. I am NOT conservative. What I think has been "hidden" or "Ignored" in this election is that the conservative party is socially conservative. Things like abortion and gay rights (in general not just the marriage thing) are heavily threatened by the conservatives (and openly so). Voting in the conservatives to get rid of the liberals might bring a LOT of bad side effects with it....
I certainly am approaching this election with dread. I think we suffer from a great lack of leadership. I am not confident that Martin, Harper, or Layton could do a decent job running the country. Duceppe seems like an excellent statesman, but he is too in love with "The Nation of Quebec"

**keeps fingers crossed**
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post #20 of 61
1/20/06 at 5:06pm
I'm not a big fan of NDP, but I'd vote for Layton before Harper.

I also will be voting Liberal - Martin has done a good job financially so I'll hope he can continue.
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post #21 of 61
1/20/06 at 5:58pm
Thread Starter 
I have been voting since I was legally able to do so (with many thanks to Nellie Mc Clung and her supporters!), and despite voting for the Liberals at 18 to show my independence from my parent's NDP values, I know which party has held my allegiance and always will.

I'll be frank... Jack Layton is an amazing leader and holds so much potential. He has such fresh ideas, and is a published writer and authority on homelessness. Not to mention he attends an annual banquet for a grass roots organization supporting women's rights (I met him there last year when I was a board member for said organization). Both he and his wife, Toronto NDP candidate Olivia Chow, are passionate about human rights and doing what is RIGHT. Those are the kind of people they are. I've met both of them (as well as Mayor David Miller, who is also wonderful) and that is just the type of people they are. It's so disappointing to me that the majority of people don't view the NDP as having much power and validity, and vote strategically, rather than according to the platform each party endorses. If people voted with their heart and conscience, I think there would be a lot more orange in this country. Go Jack!
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post #22 of 61
1/20/06 at 7:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by vespacat
I have been voting since I was legally able to do so (with many thanks to Nellie Mc Clung and her supporters!), and despite voting for the Liberals at 18 to show my independence from my parent's NDP values, I know which party has held my allegiance and always will.

I'll be frank... Jack Layton is an amazing leader and holds so much potential. He has such fresh ideas, and is a published writer and authority on homelessness. Not to mention he attends an annual banquet for a grass roots organization supporting women's rights (I met him there last year when I was a board member for said organization). Both he and his wife, Toronto NDP candidate Olivia Chow, are passionate about human rights and doing what is RIGHT. Those are the kind of people they are. I've met both of them (as well as Mayor David Miller, who is also wonderful) and that is just the type of people they are. It's so disappointing to me that the majority of people don't view the NDP as having much power and validity, and vote strategically, rather than according to the platform each party endorses. If people voted with their heart and conscience, I think there would be a lot more orange in this country. Go Jack!
I have to say I don't disagree with you. As I said, I've never been a big NDP fan but I do like Jack Layton. I just hate to see the government change so much. I think it would be nice to have Martin come back in with a majority so that he can continue to work on balancing the budget. He has been doing a great job of it and I'm afraid that if the government changes we'll be taking 1 step forward and 2 back.
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post #23 of 61
1/20/06 at 8:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite
I have to say I don't disagree with you. As I said, I've never been a big NDP fan but I do like Jack Layton. I just hate to see the government change so much. I think it would be nice to have Martin come back in with a majority so that he can continue to work on balancing the budget. He has been doing a great job of it and I'm afraid that if the government changes we'll be taking 1 step forward and 2 back.
I would rather have Martin re-elected as PM than have Harper elected anyday. It truly frightens me when I imagine what could potentially happen with Harper as PM.
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post #24 of 61
1/20/06 at 10:28pm
I am in denial that Harper may win, and also extremely saddened at the thought. If, on the 23rd Harper gets elected...I will be dehumanized, along with all of the other gay/lesbian people in Canada.
What I want to know is....when he makes gay marriages ILLEGAL, will he refund the money for my wedding once he revokes my licence? Will he pay for the ceremony I had? My tuxes...etc? Will he at least refund my $120.00 I paid for my licence?
What about the couple I know, who's wedding is in April? Will he refund them the money they've already pre-paid caterers? Will he pay for their $2000 + each wedding dresses????
The answer is NO! Just like the gov't will not pay us any survivor's benifits, deceased spouses CPP, just like they rip off all gay married/common law people on their income taxes.
The Conservative social agenda goes deeper than that, what about a woman's right to choose? (Let's bring the 60's back for fun, shall we?) Apparently he wants to drag that up too!!!
Harper is a little too "Bush-esque" Since when does the f***ing church have any thing to do with our government.

Who is going to pick up the peices in the gay community when he tells us, we're just not good enough, we're outcast second rate citizens that never deserved the right we finally won? Nobody.
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post #25 of 61
1/21/06 at 3:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat_Boy
I am in denial that Harper may win, and also extremely saddened at the thought. If, on the 23rd Harper gets elected...I will be dehumanized, along with all of the other gay/lesbian people in Canada.
What I want to know is....when he makes gay marriages ILLEGAL, will he refund the money for my wedding once he revokes my licence? Will he pay for the ceremony I had? My tuxes...etc? Will he at least refund my $120.00 I paid for my licence?
What about the couple I know, who's wedding is in April? Will he refund them the money they've already pre-paid caterers? Will he pay for their $2000 + each wedding dresses????
The answer is NO! Just like the gov't will not pay us any survivor's benifits, deceased spouses CPP, just like they rip off all gay married/common law people on their income taxes.
The Conservative social agenda goes deeper than that, what about a woman's right to choose? (Let's bring the 60's back for fun, shall we?) Apparently he wants to drag that up too!!!
Harper is a little too "Bush-esque" Since when does the f***ing church have any thing to do with our government.

Who is going to pick up the peices in the gay community when he tells us, we're just not good enough, we're outcast second rate citizens that never deserved the right we finally won? Nobody.
I think you are right to be concerned. Harper is definitely bad news for all of us.
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post #26 of 61
1/22/06 at 8:21pm
OK folks, let's get out there tomorrow night and vote!
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post #27 of 61
1/22/06 at 10:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite
OK folks, let's get out there tomorrow night and vote!
I'm on it. Actually, my poll station is in my apartment building, so I don't have to go far!
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post #28 of 61
1/22/06 at 10:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite
OK folks, let's get out there tomorrow night and vote!
My ballot will be cast by 8:30 am -- I'll do it on my way to work.
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post #29 of 61
1/23/06 at 1:11pm
What a relief is to hear so many with the same viewpoint as me when it comes to Harper. I was dreading the thought that there were many out there who were falling for his tax cuts etc, and not seeing his hidden, right wing social agenda. There is also his take on the military. I think Chretien did the right thing in not joining the fight in Iraq, that's not what Canadians and Canadian culture values and stands for. My fear is Harper is not strong enough to say "NO" to other leaders (i.e. Bush) when it comes to things like war, weaponization of space, the environment etc.

It would be a very sad day if Harper gets a majority. I dread the thought of what the country i love would become. Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed that our fellow canadians don't let us down tonight!
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post #30 of 61
1/23/06 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renny
What a relief is to hear so many with the same viewpoint as me when it comes to Harper. I was dreading the thought that there were many out there who were falling for his tax cuts etc, and not seeing his hidden, right wing social agenda. There is also his take on the military. I think Chretien did the right thing in not joining the fight in Iraq, that's not what Canadians and Canadian culture values and stands for. My fear is Harper is not strong enough to say "NO" to other leaders (i.e. Bush) when it comes to things like war, weaponization of space, the environment etc.

It would be a very sad day if Harper gets a majority. I dread the thought of what the country i love would become. Fingers, toes, and eyes crossed that our fellow canadians don't let us down tonight!
I hope it's not just the Cat People of this country who have their heads screwed on right.
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