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Something that has been bothering me...I'm opening a can of worms here, I know.

post #1 of 106
1/5/06 at 7:53pm
Thread Starter 
So, I keep coming across all of these threads that are called "What breed is my cat" or some variation thereof. I've also noticed that our breeders have become annoyed with them and they've now migrating to the Cats S.O.S. forum.

So here's my gripe: Why is it SO IMPORTANT that every cat out there be a specific breed and why do people seem kind of disappointed when we respond that they're a mixed breed?

I'm pretty sure that everyone here already knows how I feel about selective breeding, so I won't reiterate unless someone REALLY wants me to. To me, it seems like this de-values moggies. The whole attitude, I mean. But why is it just so gosh darn important that our cats be of a specific breed? And how about all the comments that imply that the cat is worth less for being a moggie? I would pay a bizillion dollars for my two if I could go back in time because they are wonderful, beautiful, unique and loveable animals.

And, on a related note, I don't really understand why it unnerves breeders so much if someone wants to call their gray cat a Russian Blue or their spotted brown tabby a Bengal if it makes them happy. I can see how selling it or adopting out under a misleading breed would be suspect, but if it makes some owner happy to call their colorpoint dsh a siamese...what difference does it really make? Your average pet owner isn't planning on breeding or showing and if they DID try to show...well, they wouldn't be able to, so I don't really understand why it's so annoying. Really. Enlighten me.

So, I know this is risky of me to post, but how does everyone else feel about these things? I DO NOT want to debate the actual action of breeding since it would inevitably get us the same place it always does, but rather the division in worth, and this attitude that seems to suggest that there is an absolute importance in having a cat that is a "breed".
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post #2 of 106
1/5/06 at 8:03pm
I think people are really just curious.
When Brody (our dog) was dropped off at our house I was very curious to find out what breed of dog he was. It had nothing to do with caring about him being a pure bred (well with the exception of allowing me the opportunity to contact breed specific rescues) but it was more curiosity than anything else.
Also, I posted the same type of post when I first got Dori. I knew nothing about cats when I got her. I posted that question with a picture of her because I needed to know what to tell people she was. I was telling everyone that my fiance got me a cat for Christmas, and when they asked me what type of cat I had to say I didn't know
I guess all I am saying is that I don't think a majority of the people who post that question are posting it because they feel it is important to have a pure bred, I really think they are just curious as to what type of cat they have....
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post #3 of 106
1/5/06 at 8:03pm
Allie, in general I agree with you about this topic. I don't know what is so important about moggies being a certain breed. I adore my two, and the only "label" I have put on mine is that Ophelia is/was feral. They may be worthless to some people, but they are priceless to me. They are what they are, and it doesn't matter what went into the mix.

The last dog we had was 1/2 pit bull (sire was a papered pedigree pit) and 1/2 everything else, and she was rather unusual looking. She was about the size of a beagle, real muscular, was black with a white chest and white toes, and had 4 1/2" ears that stood STRAIGHT UP. LOL When people asked my father (those two were best friends) what kind of dog she was, he just answered "She's a little black dog." I guess that sums up my attitude too.
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post #4 of 106
1/5/06 at 8:29pm
I must admit those threads annoy me lots too. Its like people trying to find some way they are related to the royal family. I now some forums dont allow posts like that because without papers your cat is a moggie. Some of the reason these posts annoy me is how often do you need to tell people that without papers there cat is a moggie. Especially when theres a sticky explaining this!!

I have 2 moggies and 2 pedigree cats and am equally proud and love them all. I do find it strange that people so desperatly want to find out there cat is some unknown pedigree cat. Our Eviecat and Molly are both Domestic Short hairs and proud to be so

Be proud Moggies and stand up for yourselves

Anyone seen Princess Anastacia around?
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post #5 of 106
1/5/06 at 8:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xDx
I must admit those threads annoy me lots too. Its like people trying to find some way they are related to the royal family. I now some forums dont allow posts like that because without papers your cat is a moggie. Some of the reason these posts annoy me is how often do you need to tell people that without papers there cat is a moggie. Especially when theres a sticky explaining this!!

I have 2 moggies and 2 pedigree cats and am equally proud and love them all. I do find it strange that people so desperatly want to find out there cat is some unknown pedigree cat. Our Eviecat and Molly are both Domestic Short hairs and proud to be so

Be proud Moggies and stand up for yourselves

Anyone seen Princess Anastacia around?
I really just want to say "Your cat is a moggie, specifically, a domestic ____hair. A beautiful, unique and precious animal, and you should be proud of that. Without moggies, we wouldn't even have purebreds. Not to mention that breed is nothing to cats like it is to dogs. Be proud you have a unique little gem of a mutt, they are the best kind around!"
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post #6 of 106
1/5/06 at 8:43pm
I don't know why they do it but I know it isn't important to me. I think dogs are a little different because we want to know what breed behaviors to expect, like my dog is Pit Bull and Shepherd, but when I got her from the Humane Society, the card said Shepherd mix. We figured out the Pit after she was full grown and we could see distinguishing features and behaviors she had. That's the only reason I'd question a breed, just to know what behavior to expect. Other than that, I love my moggies!
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post #7 of 106
1/5/06 at 8:46pm
I think that's just it though - people think cat breeds are like dog breeds. They don't realize that almost every purebred feline trait originates in the wild population, and so they assume that points mean a Siamese ancestor, or spots means a Bengal must be back there. You can look at a dog and say "Oh, those are terrier ears, and a husky tail" and be right about its parents, and they don't know it doesn't work for cats as well. A lot of them (certainly not all) have honest questions, and the fact that their cat is or is not a specific breed really means very little except in the way of curiousity.

That having been said - you'd think they'd at least read the sticky and learn about it, rather than having at least a post a day asking the same question over and over again. :p
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post #8 of 106
1/5/06 at 9:02pm
People don't read stickies as a rule, they read the moving posts.

I get the feeling that some of these people just believe this is a way to break into this crowd easily. Hey, I have a cat, here is her photo what does she look like?" Half the time, I look at these photos and think- "Well hmm- she looks like a cat!" Every moggie is a cross breed. I had four kittens several years ago that were dead ringers for lynx-points. I rescued a "feral cat" that turned out to be a Persian. His thread is stuck in the SOS forum. I have a cat that resembles a Maine Coon, one that looks like a Manx, and one that looks like a Burmese. Oh well- I have one that looks like paint got spilled all over her, and two that look like identical bookends. Do I want to know what breed they are? Nope, I just want to be sure they are healthy and stay that way
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post #9 of 106
1/5/06 at 9:07pm
I have had vets tell me that this is a so and so mix when I brought them in as rescues. I do not know they would do that unless they thought that a particular breed might make the cat more attractive to prospective owner.
Maybe having a particular breed makes a difference to some people. I hope not, no offense meant to our breeders. If I rescue a cat, he is mine, purebred or moggie. Or, as someone else said, just curiousity. It is kind of annoying when someone goes on and on about it after they have been given any info we here can provide.
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post #10 of 106
1/5/06 at 11:20pm
It isn't so much that the breeders have become annoyed with such posts, it is more that when someone comes in to ask "what breed is my cat" without having the proper documentation, it is frustrating to us - we don't know. We ~can't~ know. No one will ever know. After discussing the situation with my co-moderator in that Forum as well as a general vote amongst all of the Mod staff here, it was determined that such posts would all be answered in the same way and then closed.

I have to say that I agree with you about wanting a DS/M/LH cat to ~be~ a specific breed is concerning to me as well. I too believe that all cats have a unique value whether they have a documented pedigree or not. Over my lifetime, I have shared my home and heart with many, many cats - not all of them pedigreed. I have had several "soup kitchen" kitties who have showed up here at my home, liked what they found and stuck around for the duration of their lives. They were all wonderful pets, loving and sweet. Each had a unique personality, each were individuals and every last one of them have had a special place in my heart. So what if I didn't know their lineage - as Hissy accurately commented, as long as they were healthy and happy, I didn't care if they were purple and polka dotted.

Lionessrampant, I know you have no regard whatsoever for what I do and that's OK - you are, by all means, entitled to have your opinion about such things. I respect your right to disagree with me and I believe that differing opinions are a large part of that which makes life interesting.
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post #11 of 106
1/5/06 at 11:28pm
I don't understand why we insist on labeling people so selectively- "breeder" "rescuer" Because the bottom line is this, we all fall under on category-

Cat Lover
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post #12 of 106
1/5/06 at 11:58pm
I forgot who put this but I will do it for my sister Kandie... dam- lovely dah calico sire - traveling salesman

Zoey supected bengal cross I have no idea so dam - lady of the knight sire - alley cat ( she was found feral and pregnant)

Frankie well when I figure out what color I will tell you for now she is a ponted short hair( I think)

Gigi her mom was a yorkie and her dad was a yorkie( didnt matter I dont know where her "papers" are..lol

I love my kids mutt or purebred I dont care...
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post #13 of 106
1/6/06 at 12:00am
Just to add to the mix the POV of a CAT LOVER, who has had only one purebred cat -- and that by total happenstance -- and would never go looking for any specific breed.

I'm interested, curious, whatever, about my cats' lineage, inasmuchas it informs their personality and genetic predispositions. Yes, I speculate from time to time about Fawn's lineage (less so about Cindy's or Suzy's, those being so completely moggie), because it seems that there may be an identifiable gene set in her very recent lineage.

Does it really matter? Heck, no! They are my cats, my babies, the bestest kitties in the whole wide world, and don't anyone try to tell me otherwise If some aspect of their ancestry were identifiable, it would have exactly 0000 impact on how I feel about them, but if it conferred some understanding of their personality, or advance warning of a possible health issue, is that not something that I should want to know? Those are the reasons I'm interested and curious -- not because knowing something about their lineage makes them "more valuable" -- how could they be more valuable, when they are already the very bestest?
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post #14 of 106
1/6/06 at 3:09am
Quote:
Hissy said: I get the feeling that some of these people just believe this is a way to break into this crowd easily. Hey, I have a cat, here is her photo what does she look like?"
From the one's I've seen, this seems to be the point of the posts. Fur babies is tucked into the Cat Lounge, so they probably aren't aware they can put up a picture there.

I have Pru's picture as a wallpaper at work, to show my new cat. I have had no less than 4 people tell me their cat looks EXACTLY like her, they are going to bring a picture in to prove it. Way to go tabbies! Talk about a strong gene pool. When I say I have a tabby, that says it all.

People want to describe their cat easily, and saying it is part siamese or half persian can do that. That can be quicker than a long winded description. It's hard to keep non-cat people's attention, so sometimes you need a shortcut..
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post #15 of 106
1/6/06 at 4:44am
Just my 2 cents' worth here. I do have some "purebred" cats: 3 Abys and a Ragdoll. But all four were rescues! Khepera in particular had been badly abused and needed an awful lot of TLC to make him come out of his shell. Titi and Osiris were dumped at a high-kill shelter by their deceased owner's niece, and Sasha sat in a shelter for weeks without anyone expressing interest in him until we adopted him.

I'm all for moggies, goodness knows we have 35 of them. But there are purebred cats out there needing rescue too! One look at Petfinder is all you need to see that.
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post #16 of 106
1/6/06 at 5:04am
Half the fun of not knowing your cat's ancestry is making it up to suit yourself!

Sue
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post #17 of 106
1/6/06 at 6:08am
My cats are all 100% purebred Sarajevo Alley Cat and they and I are proud of it!
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post #18 of 106
1/6/06 at 6:21am
I agree that it is an icebreaker. It does annoy me to even though i ma still pretty new around here. BUT i do understand that people havea tendancy to want to label. Most people realize that when all the replies come as a mixed breed then they give up and dont ask again.

A lot of people also find this site and are brand new to cats. But you have to admit it is still fun to look at the pictures of their babies!!
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post #19 of 106
1/6/06 at 6:47am
Lioness, I understand your frustration. Joe Shmoe's expensive Persian is no more valuable than my gray & white Tuxedo or my black, brown, and white Tabby to me. My cats are priceless.
With that said, I had a cat that looked like a Maine Coon when I was a kid. Curiosity and ignorance made me ask "Is he a Maine Coon?" I loved Lancelot no matter what. If he had been a purebred, it wouldn't have made any difference. I read a little about different characteristics of breeds and thought it would be interesting to see if he fit the description.
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post #20 of 106
1/6/06 at 8:10am
I have to agree with those posters who feel it's a way to break the ice, a welcome excuse to post a picture of their cat, or simple curiosity. Since most "breeds" have evolved or been developed out of your common domestic or "alley" cat, they play a far less important role in cats than in dogs.
It always surprises me when people ask what kind of cat I have, and have come to the conclusion that most are making conversation, or are mainly interested in what the cat looks like, not whether he has a pedigree. When I reply, "A tuxedo cat", or "One just like Felix", they seem satisfied with the answer.
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post #21 of 106
1/6/06 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
It always surprises me when people ask what kind of cat I have, and have come to the conclusion that most are making conversation, or are mainly interested in what the cat looks like, not whether he has a pedigree. When I reply, "A tuxedo cat", or "One just like Felix", they seem satisfied with the answer.
I love it when people ask me. I reply in a bragging tone "I have a tuxedo cat and a tabby cat." LOL
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post #22 of 106
1/6/06 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
I have to agree with those posters who feel it's a way to break the ice, a welcome excuse to post a picture of their cat, or simple curiosity. Since most "breeds" have evolved or been developed out of your common domestic or "alley" cat, they play a far less important role in cats than in dogs.
It always surprises me when people ask what kind of cat I have, and have come to the conclusion that most are making conversation, or are mainly interested in what the cat looks like, not whether he has a pedigree. When I reply, "A tuxedo cat", or "One just like Felix", they seem satisfied with the answer.
To me, cats are cats, pure and simple.

A little off the wall, but sometimes when people come over and see our four somewhat similar tuxedo cats they think our cats are a breed. (It's coincidence, they're all former strays - two are littermates, the other two are unrelated.)

I think it's just in people's nature to try to identify and classify everything.

Perhaps instead of explaining, I'll just say with pride that they're Tuxedo cats.
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post #23 of 106
1/6/06 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
I have to agree with those posters who feel it's a way to break the ice, a welcome excuse to post a picture of their cat,
Maybe fur pictures needs to be a little mor obvious? It is burried within the board so unless you no its easily missed.
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post #24 of 106
1/6/06 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
It always surprises me when people ask what kind of cat I have, and have come to the conclusion that most are making conversation, or are mainly interested in what the cat looks like, not whether he has a pedigree. When I reply, "A tuxedo cat", or "One just like Felix", they seem satisfied with the answer.
that's what i do, too! i have a tuxedo/skunk cat, a calico & a tabby. when Mouse was still here, i told people she was a blue cat, & explained that her shade of gray was referred to as 'blue'. they all seemed satisified with those descriptors. i think most people are looking for a descriptor, & are satisified with a color/marking name.
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post #25 of 106
1/6/06 at 9:57am
My best friend is a dog breeder. It angers her that people dilute breeds thoughtlessly, but short of executing all mutts and moggies, I don't know how you would remedy that. LOL

My three cats are all moggies, although I call the oldest one a Manx since she has no tail. (It sounds classier than "tailless moggie." lol)

They couldn't be any more precious to me if I'd paid hundreds of dollars for each one. And they're certainly as spoiled as any cats!
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post #26 of 106
1/6/06 at 11:44am
All my cats are of 100% feline blood from 100% cat ancestry,
Does anything else really matter?

I agree with you 100% Linosrampant, i don’t understand why it matters and it bothers me too. Breeding in general bothers me, but that’s all ill say about that.

A $2500 cat is still a cat and no more valuable than the ones i am holding in my arms now up for adoption to a loving home. Purebred lineage and ancestry is no guarantee of the cats personality or health.
I think its the vainty of the person who insists on having only "the best". when there is no "best" with cats.
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post #27 of 106
1/6/06 at 12:45pm
I don't really believe (as one poster here suggested) that any of these people asking about breed consider their pet to be worth any less than pedigreed animals. I chose not to pay extra for papers for Bijou so according to some folks here he is a moggie. I could care less - we chose him for his personality, disposition and I've always wanted a bluepoint Siamese. Mika was chosen by our daughter because she had moved out on her own and missed Bijou and wanted a cat with the same temperament and personality so she went to the same breeder as we did to get Mika. I've had a number of cats over the years and they were just as precious to me and they were not pedigree.

I also disagree with the vanity comment. My dream was a lilac or blue point Siamese only because I (ME) loved the colouring and wanted one just like that - I could never afford one when I was younger - now I'm old and I can do as I darn well please and it pleased me to get our wonderful Bijou.

I think it is unfair to assume the folks asking are going to think less of their pet if you tell them it's a DSH/moggie rather than a pedigree. If I had a pointed cat that I got from a rescue, I would probably ask the same question to you folks whom I assume have more knowledge than I and would hope that you didn't get angry with me for asking. I also don't think I would think it worthless or want to get rid of the cat if you told me it wasn't pedigree.

Hissy has a good point - it may very well be an ice-breaker for some of the new members.

Surely this question is asked no more often than questions on fleas.
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post #28 of 106
1/6/06 at 12:48pm
Thread Starter 
People were always asking me if Lola was a RUssian Blue, so I did a little test. If I said yes, the response was something like "WOW! I've NEVER seen a purebred cat up CLOSE! She is so BEAUTIFUL! Are they always this friendly and outgoing?! I want one! I wish I could find a cat this wonderful! etc, etc". When I said she was a rescued stray people almost 100% of the time said, verbatim, "But she's SO FRIENDLY!" It was never about her beauty or how impressed they were with anything other than the fact that she could still be "normal" having been born in a dumpster in Rogers Park. No one was ever really asking me too many questions about the rescue that I worked with that she came from. When she got her first URI, the response was "She's probably sick because she was an alley cat", while the fact that purebreds are often less healthy than moggies is out there.

So I guess it's the attitude more than anything that bothers me in this case.

When asked now what kind of cats I have, I generally reply that I have a tabby and a calico (I've also noticed that people think these are breeds, which is another can of worms) and that they are both extremely lucky AND loved kitties.
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post #29 of 106
1/6/06 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite
I don't really believe (as one poster here suggested) that any of these people asking about breed consider their pet to be worth any less than pedigreed animals. I chose not to pay extra for papers for Bijou so according to some folks here he is a moggie. I could care less - we chose him for his personality, disposition and I've always wanted a bluepoint Siamese. Mika was chosen by our daughter because she had moved out on her own and missed Bijou and wanted a cat with the same temperament and personality so she went to the same breeder as we did to get Mika. I've had a number of cats over the years and they were just as precious to me and they were not pedigree.

I also disagree with the vanity comment. My dream was a lilac or blue point Siamese only because I (ME) loved the colouring and wanted one just like that - I could never afford one when I was younger - now I'm old and I can do as I darn well please and it pleased me to get our wonderful Bijou.


I did not intent my statement to be taken as all pedigreed cat owners are vain. It was more to address why people get so offended when you tell them their cat they have been boastful regarding its status and cost has mixed lineage.
IMO all cats are equal regardless of what a document states about their ancestry.

I agree specifically with why you got your cat.(regardless of breed) It had the markings that you find attractive, has the personality that you love and brings joy into your life.
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post #30 of 106
1/6/06 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Middletown


I did not intent my statement to be taken as all pedigreed cat owners are vain. It was more to address why people get so offended when you tell them their cat they have been boastful regarding its status and cost has mixed lineage.
IMO all cats are equal regardless of what a document states about their ancestry.

I agree specifically with why you got your cat.(regardless of breed) It had the markings that you find attractive, has the personality that you love and brings joy into your life.
No worries! I agree with you about people getting offended when you tell them they don't have a pedigree cat.

And I totally agree that all cats are equal (and wonderful) regardless of whether they have a document or not.

I could never express in words just how much joy Bijou and Mika have brought into our home and my husband and daughter would absolutely agree with that statement. We've had other cats that were wonderful and totally loved, but none have equaled the bond we ALL have with these two kitties.

Having said that, now that I've had my bluepoint, when Bijou goes to the rainbow bridge, our next kitty will be a rescue from a shelter probably.
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