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more Bush bashing - Page 3

post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwideus
That makes me sad. I always thought God Bless Every Nation. Long Live the whole world, not just the USA. I liked living in the USA but I also like living in NZ.

I believe that every country should be equal, regardless of who their leader is. We have people living in those other countries that are just like you and me. Every country has leaders that their people like and dislike. That is just part of life itself. Oh well, what can we do?

But I just want the ordinary people like you and me to get along. Isn't that what is more important?
I know what you mean. I don't like that saying too much- God Bless America. That is what I have always thought, too. God Bless Every Country! America always holds itself up so high, thinking we are the best. Nobody is the best!! How about instead of all the nations competing and fighting, we accept our differences and work together for the better?? Of course, though, that will never happen. Because everybody has their different point of views, on politics, Bush, other leaders...and everybody will always disagree. Oh, well.
post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetiecat3
I know what you mean. I don't like that saying too much- God Bless America. That is what I have always thought, too. God Bless Every Country! America always holds itself up so high, thinking we are the best. Nobody is the best!! How about instead of all the nations competing and fighting, we accept our differences and work together for the better?? Of course, though, that will never happen. Because everybody has their different point of views, on politics, Bush, other leaders...and everybody will always disagree. Oh, well.
Thank you. I feel better now, knowing someone else shares my sentiment.
post #63 of 84
I don't feel that saying "God Bless America" is a wrong thing to do.
I wouldn't care if someone says "God Bless England" or any other country.

For goodness sake's people, no one is trying to offend anyone by saying "God Bless America"

But, I have to say, in my opinion America is the best country. Even with all our faults, I still think it is the best.
post #64 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
I don't feel that saying "God Bless America" is a wrong thing to do.
I wouldn't care if someone says "God Bless England" or any other country.

For goodness sake's people, no one is trying to offend anyone by saying "God Bless America"

But, I have to say, in my opinion America is the best country. Even with all our faults, I still think it is the best.
No it is not the best. All countries are the same. That attitude is egotistical. No country is better than any other country.
post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
I don't feel that saying "God Bless America" is a wrong thing to do.
I wouldn't care if someone says "God Bless England" or any other country.

For goodness sake's people, no one is trying to offend anyone by saying "God Bless America"

But, I have to say, in my opinion America is the best country. Even with all our faults, I still think it is the best.

America is always comes to the rescue. No other countries do what the USA does to dish it out and help others.
post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwideus
No it is not the best. All countries are the same. That attitude is egotistical. No country is better than any other country.


USA is actually one of the worst rich countires to live in, if I was forced to pick the best, I'd choose Sweden. You just don't get proper foreign news there, no offence.
post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugaboo1

America is always comes to the rescue. No other countries do what the USA does to dish it out and help others.
Ahhh yes. I can't help but wonder if another Hitler of someone of his ilk came along. The Good old USA would come to the rescue of any who needed help.
Because that is what this country is about.
We try to help.
I am glad there is an America to help when needed.

I am not saying Finland and Sweden are not good countries. I am sure they are. They just do not have the resources to do what we can do here.
That Doesn't make them bad.

God bless Finland.
post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
Not trying to offend here but in my opinion, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck or anyone in Hollywood's opinion means nothing to me.
Hollywood is the last place I would go for political opinions or morals or anything. They are all, for the most part, a bunch of nuts that can't even keep their own lives together, why the heck would I listen to anything they have to say.

What is comes down to for me is, some people feel that the good this country does and has done outweighs the bad and some people don't.
Now, did you actually read the quote before you judged it based on preconceived notions about these individuals?

And Bugaboo, I think it was, I'm sure the people in Darfur and Rwanda sure agree with you that America is always coming to the rescue. I think a more correct statement would be that the USA always comes to the rescue in places that we have an imperial and vested self-interest.

And I'm sure the millions of people in this country without access to healthcare or who are unemployed or homeless (think about all of those left in the wake of Katrina) are sure glad that our government is always there to help them! (Not!)

Does anyone have any idea how profitable the war in Iraq is to certain patricians in this country?
post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
Ahhh yes. I can't help but wonder if another Hitler of someone of his ilk came along. The Good old USA would come to the rescue of any who needed help.
Because that is what this country is about.
We try to help.
I am glad there is an America to help when needed.

I am not saying Finland and Sweden are not good countries. I am sure they are. They just do not have the resources to do what we can do here.
That Doesn't make them bad.

God bless Finland.
I wasn't saying Finland is great, it's nothing special as rich countries go, a safe boring place. I'm just saying that USA is also nothing special, just more powerful, and it annoyes the rest of the world that you think you are somehow morally superior.
post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionessrampant
Now, did you actually read the quote before you judged it based on preconceived notions about these individuals?

And Bugaboo, I think it was, I'm sure the people in Darfur and Rwanda sure agree with you that America is always coming to the rescue. I think a more correct statement would be that the USA always comes to the rescue in places that we have an imperial and vested self-interest.
The UN ain't exactly too keen on helping those people out either in any meaningful way, so that judgement can and should be passed on the vast majority of the world and not just the US.

I'll start out by saying that I am about as Patriotic about the US as they come. I support our system, democracy, capitalism, and especially our military and the men and women who voluntarily enlist to serve. But I do have to agree with Kellye here. It is short sighted and egotistical to say that the US is the BEST, bar none. In some aspects we are, without question. In other aspects, we aren't close to the top of the list. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in our great land, but we really need to be realistic too. We aren't the Great Satans or the Evil Empire; nor are we a utopia without fault. We have strengths and we also have weaknesses. When we can't admit that, we come across as the stereotypical arrogant Americans that get shunned and spit on by the rest of the world. And we also have to realize that other people will take offense by taking that stance, because they take as much pride in their countries as we do in the USA.
post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
The UN ain't exactly too keen on helping those people out either in any meaningful way, so that judgement can and should be passed on the vast majority of the world and not just the US.

I'll start out by saying that I am about as Patriotic about the US as they come. I support our system, democracy, capitalism, and especially our military and the men and women who voluntarily enlist to serve. But I do have to agree with Kellye here. It is short sighted and egotistical to say that the US is the BEST, bar none. In some aspects we are, without question. In other aspects, we aren't close to the top of the list. There is nothing wrong with taking pride in our great land, but we really need to be realistic too. We aren't the Great Satans or the Evil Empire; nor are we a utopia without fault. We have strengths and we also have weaknesses. When we can't admit that, we come across as the stereotypical arrogant Americans that get shunned and spit on by the rest of the world. And we also have to realize that other people will take offense by taking that stance, because they take as much pride in their countries as we do in the USA.
Thank you Heidi!! What many Americans view as `coming to the rescue' is viewed as overbearing interference can't keep your nose out of other country's affairs by the rest of the world. Rather than the Great Saviour, too often the U.S is seen as the Great Inteferer, particularly when they have a vested interest in making sure the the countries they `save' are kept intact for them to contine to make a profit (or something similar) out of.

I can't bear blinkered, blind, tunnel-vision views. If just one of the `YAY FOR AMERICA!' people ever actually acknowledged that there's some dark, and dreadful, unforgivable things in the US's history of foreign policy, you could knock me over with a feather. Seems everyone here is able to see BOTH sides of their country's history - the good AND the bad - and yet some are just plain blind, or have decided to live in a little box where nothing bad can ever touch them, well nothing bad in the US, that is, the rest of the world is plenty bad enough to keep them going for hours!

I can see you Cindy, trying to justify your arguments and being open-minded enough to be able to acknowledge the good in other countries, too, along with the bad in your own (though you are still understandably reluctant!!). That to me is the first step in gaining broader and more informed views.

But those who refuse to see any side but their own, who manipulate the truth to fit their one-sided views, who refuse to even acknowledge glaring evidence to the contrary of what they believe, well, I take what those people say with a grain of salt.

Because of the extreme one-sided nature of their arguments, they shoot themselves in the foot, and give their own arguments no credibility, and their own opinions no weight, except with others just like them.
post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwideus
No it is not the best. All countries are the same. That attitude is egotistical. No country is better than any other country.
I couldnt of said it any better than that.

these arguements of "my country is better than your country" annoy me - we arent children anymore - these attitudes and games should be left in the playground.
post #73 of 84
i support bush but i can still alugh at that game. very entertaining!
post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva!
Thank you Heidi!! What many Americans view as `coming to the rescue' is viewed as overbearing interference can't keep your nose out of other country's affairs by the rest of the world. Rather than the Great Saviour, too often the U.S is seen as the Great Inteferer, particularly when they have a vested interest in making sure the the countries they `save' are kept intact for them to contine to make a profit (or something similar) out of.

I can't bear blinkered, blind, tunnel-vision views. If just one of the `YAY FOR AMERICA!' people ever actually acknowledged that there's some dark, and dreadful, unforgivable things in the US's history of foreign policy, you could knock me over with a feather. Seems everyone here is able to see BOTH sides of their country's history - the good AND the bad - and yet some are just plain blind, or have decided to live in a little box where nothing bad can ever touch them, well nothing bad in the US, that is, the rest of the world is plenty bad enough to keep them going for hours!

I can see you Cindy, trying to justify your arguments and being open-minded enough to be able to acknowledge the good in other countries, too, along with the bad in your own (though you are still understandably reluctant!!). That to me is the first step in gaining broader and more informed views.

But those who refuse to see any side but their own, who manipulate the truth to fit their one-sided views, who refuse to even acknowledge glaring evidence to the contrary of what they believe, well, I take what those people say with a grain of salt.

Because of the extreme one-sided nature of their arguments, they shoot themselves in the foot, and give their own arguments no credibility, and their own opinions no weight, except with others just like them.
I wonder if the countries of Europe looked at it as "overbearing interference" when we liberated them from the Nazi's.
post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv
I wonder if the countries of Europe looked at it as "overbearing interference" when we liberated them from the Nazi's.
I just have to say something about this, because this has been brought up over and over again in this thread.

The US did not single-handedly defeat Nazi Germany. Quite frankly, if Hitler had not attempted to fight the war on two fronts, against the Allies in Europe and against the Soviets, the German military force most likely could have and would have defeated the Allied Forces. The Germans made some really key errors that led to their defeat, not the least of which being that Hitler insisted that he be in sole command of any major movements and also insisted that he not be woken for any reason (I believe he took sleeping pills that night?) on D-Day. That caused a major delay in the German response and eliminated any real resistance from the Luftwaffe which could have decimated the invading force beyond repair.

That is beside the fact that it was the ALLIED FORCES that swept through Europe. Not just the US forces. Could they have done it without us? Probably not. Could we have done it without them? Another no. That doesn't minimize what the US did during WWII, nor anything that those soldiers did (my grandfather served in the Mediterranean; my great-uncle was a tank operator with Patton...), but we did not do it alone.
post #76 of 84
I also want to comment on another theme that is recurring in this thread, that of the US being the great interferer and sticking our nose in other countries' business and particularly only when it benefits us.

With the exception of the war in Iraq, the US's role as global enforcer and police has been mainly at the behest of the UN. We are the UN's main resource when they want military action taken anywhere in the world, or at least major military action. But of course, when things go south then the US is also their biggest scapegoat.

Look at what is happening in Iran right now. The EU3 (Britain, Germany, France) took the lead in negotiations. The US took heat for not leading that, by the same people who were and are critical of the US taking a stand against Iraq. OK, fine. Now when things are heating up and the possibility of military action is being laid on the table, amongst many other options, who is supposed to now take charge of that? The US. The US has to lead the coalition if military action were to be taken. And who would take the heat? The US. Who would be accused of doing it soley for the oil? The US. Who would be called hypocrites for enforcing the UN's law on nuclear proliferation? The US.

I do think that much of the criticism of the US is not well-founded and very often exaggerated at best, and outright wrong at worst.
post #77 of 84
IMO, people should think that their OWN country is the best. That doesn't mean we have to approve of everything our government does or its current leader. We should love our country, whether it happens to be England, Finland, Iran, etc... or the good old USA. I don't see that as egotistical at all, just loyal...kinda like going for the "home team."
post #78 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat
IMO, people should think that their OWN country is the best. That doesn't mean we have to approve of everything our government does or its current leader. We should love our country, whether it happens to be England, Finland, Iran, etc... or the good old USA. I don't see that as egotistical at all, just loyal...kinda like going for the "home team."
But suppose you happened to have had the ill luck to have been born in a country like North Korea, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Burma/Myanmar, Congo, etc.? Doesn't thinking your country is the best preclude fighting for positive changes?
post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb
I also want to comment on another theme that is recurring in this thread, that of the US being the great interferer and sticking our nose in other countries' business and particularly only when it benefits us.

With the exception of the war in Iraq, the US's role as global enforcer and police has been mainly at the behest of the UN. We are the UN's main resource when they want military action taken anywhere in the world, or at least major military action. But of course, when things go south then the US is also their biggest scapegoat.

Look at what is happening in Iran right now. The EU3 (Britain, Germany, France) took the lead in negotiations. The US took heat for not leading that, by the same people who were and are critical of the US taking a stand against Iraq. OK, fine. Now when things are heating up and the possibility of military action is being laid on the table, amongst many other options, who is supposed to now take charge of that? The US. The US has to lead the coalition if military action were to be taken. And who would take the heat? The US. Who would be accused of doing it soley for the oil? The US. Who would be called hypocrites for enforcing the UN's law on nuclear prolification? The US.

I do think that much of the criticism of the US is not well-founded and very often exaggerated at best, and outright wrong at worst.
post #80 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
But suppose you happened to have had the ill luck to have been born in a country like North Korea, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Burma/Myanmar, Congo, etc.? Doesn't thinking your country is the best preclude fighting for positive changes?
I hadn't really thought of it like that, but I supose it would. I was basically trying to say that IMO its not egotistical, just loyal.
post #81 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat
I hadn't really thought of it like that, but I suppose it would. I was basically trying to say that IMO its not egotistical, just loyal.
I realize that, and wasn't trying to insinuate that you personally had little understanding of the outside world. I just feel that a great many people who express their patriotism in an extreme manner have had little or no experience of repression, chaos, political/religious persecution, or, for that matter, foreign countries. Or even other regions of North America.
post #82 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
I realize that, and wasn't trying to insinuate that you personally had little understanding of the outside world. I just feel that a great many people who express their patriotism in an extreme manner have had little or no experience of repression, chaos, political/religious persecution, or, for that matter, foreign countries. Or even other regions of North America.
I wasn't insinuating that you were insinuating. I agree to that patriotism, like most things, when taken to the extreme can be dangerous or at least ignorant. Well, everything except being an extreme cat lover.
post #83 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat
But suppose you happened to have had the ill luck to have been born in a country like North Korea, Somalia, Zimbabwe, Burma/Myanmar, Congo, etc.? Doesn't thinking your country is the best preclude fighting for positive changes?
No. Then you would say that 200 or 800 years ago, my country was the best, and you would work towards improving your country, or moving to another better place for you and your family.

I say God Bless America, just because I am an American. I pray for my kids more often than I pray for kids in general. I pray for kitties posted on TCS more than I pray for kitties I have never heard of. To me, it is human nature.

As for the original post, I didn't reply to it because I have slow dial up, and can't play games on line. Also, I have no real interest in a Bush bashing site, because I am a Bush supporter. (Never looked at a Clinton bashing site, either, to be honest. Just not my cup of tea.)
post #84 of 84
Just my 2 cents on what's being discussed here.

I don't believe that the US can assume sole credit for liberating the POW's from WWII, as there were a large number of countries fighting for the Allies, including the Red Army who had more direct contact with the German Army than any other nation did.

I'm of German descent, and a large number of my family members, who were held in Soviet labour camps, perished during the war. After the war my grandmother lost her youngest brother to a landmine planted on German soil.

I don't support war at all and am thankful that one major positive decision that came out of WWII was to establish the UN and it's agencies, which is generally successful in its' peacekeeping missions.

Each and every country in this world has shameful skeletons in their collective closets.
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