Please define "Backyard Breeder"

I don't know if you will all think this is a good idea or not, and I don't know if it says anywhere in these forums already but due to recent activity on this subject....Could we all chime in and give an easily accessible refresher course for what is the definition of "backyard breeder" for the new folks here on this site and those just browsing or passing through? Thanks for everyone's input!

Gaye made an excellent post on this subject, that is found the the Pregnant Cats forum: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52744

Anyone not breeding to improve the breed, anyone breeding for the kittens, anybody breeding moggies(minus unique mutations), anyone that doesn't care if they are fixed, anyone that lets their breeding cat outdoors.... i could go on and on... Oh, i forgot, anyone breeding to make money...

Originally Posted by valanhb

Gaye made an excellent post on this subject, that is found the the Pregnant Cats forum: http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52744

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I learned loads on this thread

I am always happy to engage in individual discussions on this topic if anyone ever cares to ....

Thanks guys, I don't think I know how to post links like that, or if I even can? I guess we can't post it enough, eh?

Hey great thread....

This subject is always worth a refresher.....

Originally Posted by gayef

I am always happy to engage in individual discussions on this topic if anyone ever cares to ....

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I can attest to that.

Katie

what about a neighbor who's cat snuck out, and spays her female after kittens have gone to new homes? (my peaches came from one

Originally Posted by Aurora151989

what about a neighbor who's cat snuck out, and spays her female after kittens have gone to new homes? (my peaches came from one

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obviously mistakes happen...Kits can be very smart and very set on getting there way ......I think thats why its important to educate all pet owners on the importance of spaying/nutering early.....

There's a big difference in one accidental litter (your female gets out and gets pregnant - then you spay her before it happens again) and a person who KNOWINGLY lets their females have litter after litter and KNOWINGLY lets their males roam to get into fights/other females pregnant.

Those that do it knowingly are the backyard breeders of cats, dogs, etc. This also applies to someone with a "purebred" with or without papers who lets their animals breed just because they are purebred and not to improve the breed.

We have a rescued labrador - she's nice size, etc. but we have NO papers on her. She got out and got pregnant at 9 months of age when the rescue group found her. Another man adopted her; the dog had 10 pups (father was a rottweiler) and then we got her from the guy (he also abused her).

She came into heat again before we got her spayed and one of our sons said "oh you should let her have pups - my friend has a good lab to breed her to and then you can sell the pups to make money". I chewed him out for even suggesting that! First of all she doesn't have papers, 2nd she's a mix of field and show lab - so not up to "standard", and 3rd I"m not breeding an unregistered dog to make money!

A backyard breeder would have knowingly bred her to another lab to make money.

Understand the difference?

BTW our lab is happy and SPAYED now

Originally Posted by Aurora151989

what about a neighbor who's cat snuck out, and spays her female after kittens have gone to new homes? (my peaches came from one

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That's an accident. It's objectively irresponsible to fail to spay your female cat in a timely manner, but an accident does not a BYB make. If the cat had not been spayed after her kittens were weaned, then I think we'd be talking about a BYB situation.

another difference. A BYB would not care about the welfare of the mum and would allow the mother to basically breed to death, without any kind of recovery period between litters and would not provide an optimum diet to the mum. Also, the dam would probably never be retired.

A BYB would also allow inbreeding simply because they would not want to spay or neuter any of their "stock"

I'm so glad to see this thread! I was upset by the Manx question alot,
esp. as I continued to read the thread. Manx are prone to spinal problems, and to breed casually "one or two" for my family... GRRRR.....

I feel that my little kitty I "found" (abandoned when they moved )
was product of "backyard" breeding, insomuch as she has so many
Manx physical characteristics... but does not come up to the standard
for the breed - ie, eyes are green not yellow, smoke coat is
inferior, too many ear hairs, etc etc... She's a diluted copy of a top show
cat essentially...

But least she was spayed - that's the first thing I checked her for
when I found her...

I do know some of this "backyard" breeding is unintentional and is
from sheer thoughtlessness and lack of education -

I did have a friend who in her youth had a Siamese Tom - it was unaltered, papered etc.

Well, eventually it got to be indoor/outdoor - who knows how many
litters it fathered??!!!

And it didn't have to ... they could have
had it fixed, but NOOO they wanted to breed and show it...
Which never happened I might add...

Kitty got fixed after it lost a tooth in a fight... then it was an indoor
only... (And not show quality anymore!) Thank goodness!

So thanks for educating folks on this point. Cats should not
be sold for breeding purposes, unless the person selling knows
that the person buying is GOING to breed and show RESPONSIBLY!!

And cats that are unaltered should NEVER be allowed to roam
free outside. Period.

Whether or not an accidental litter is considered back yard breeding...I don't know. But those accidents do add to the kitty overpopulation problem! Here a litter there a litter...I'm not saying the resulting kittens aren't adorable-that is all I have ever owned. But if we all would be more careful, and advise our friends and families to spay and neuter early, there would be so many less kitties out there.

Sure, the kitten mills are the worst...but every extra litter is bad, too. I used to let my barn cats breed-in fact ended up with an adorable moggy/siamese due to a neighbor's unneutered meezer! And had an oops litter of puppies about 8 years ago. So I know how it happens, I'm just saying if we can really urge everyone to STOP the extra oops litters, we will eliminate so much need for rescues, and euthanization.

I got Red and Blue from a cage at a vets office, through my rescue. There was a whole litter..we only took the two tamest kittens. If we weren't already overwhelmed with other oops kittens, we probably could have tamed the rest of the litter. As it is, most likely they were euthanized. The numbers just have to go down!

OK, I think I'm done now.

I will never believe an accidental feline pregnancy can be accurately referred to as backyard breeding. That is why we developed and launched the Pregnant Cats and Kitten Care Forum here at TCS. Many people find themselves caring for a pregnant stray that showed up out of the blue ... or during a brief moment of temporary inattention by otherwise completely responsible people, our young pets may scoot out the door only to return at some future point with kittens in utero. There are any number of other reasons we may find ourselves looking after a pregnant kitty and her babies when they come. Such things are accidents. We didn't intend for them to happen.

It is when we continue to allow these things to happen and take no action to prevent them that they are no longer accidents. When we do not give our pets the appropriate care by spaying or neutering, when we overlook their needs, when we don't learn from not only our own mistakes, but the mistakes of others and when we continue to think 'it isn't our problem' ... that is when we become something other than responsible.

Having cared for hundreds of kittens who are often the result of back yard breeding, I want to say that EVERY SINGLE kitten that is produced is a preventable product of conception. I have been owned by 10 cats throughout my life and not one oops. If the cat or dog is spayed/neutered at (or before) 6 months, there is no opportunity for this to happen. Equally, if they are adopted from a shelter/the street/a friend, the VERY FIRST thing to do is have the animal spayed/neutered. The only circumstance that I can see an oops happening is adopting a mumcat with kittens and the cat getting out while waiting for the kittens to be old enough for her to be spayed.

I know this is a difficult and harsh choice to make but in this case, or in the case of adopting a pregnant stray, I really do believe that spaying her even while pregnant is the best thing to do. I have cared for (and at times tragically not been able to save) too many kittens to condone any sort of breeding other than by registered breeders.

Originally Posted by gayef

I will never believe an accidental feline pregnancy can be accurately referred to as backyard breeding.

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I agree completely no matter how hard we try occasionally accidents happen. So we must be careful not to demonize people who find themselves with an Accidental pregnancy on there hands. What makes them irresponsible is if they take no responsibility for this accident. There are many people out there who find themselves with accidental pregnancys and do the resposible thing by caring for the cat and kittens finding appropriate homes and then getting the mother spayed. We have a responsibility on this board to give them advice if they ask.Education is a way to help reduce accidents but there will always be some.

Dx

All of my cats have been either stray or adopted from foster homes. So I don't know if they came from BYB.
From reading what everyone has written about BYB, I believe that my two dogs must have come from BYB.
1. Both were advertised in the paper.

2. Kisses who is a chocolate lab, her mother is registered but the father
was not. So there was no papers provided. I remember something the
owner said when we went to pick her up. She said that this was one
of her biggest litters. There were 15 puppies. They had a make shift
pen sort of. All dogs where kept outside. The father was already trying
to mount the mother again. So again more puppies.

3. Scoobie is a Bassett hound that I got from a lady advertising that she
would be in front of the local kmart at such and such time. Both
parents are registered and so is Scoobie. She never asked me about
my home or any info about me as a person other than to fill out for
the registration papers and that I had the money.

Doesn't this make them BYB! Even though Scoobie is registered, this lady was willing to sell to just anyone going to Kmart. I love my dogs wouldn't trade them for the world. But I wish I had acquired them differently.

Simply advertising in the paper does not - IMO - a BYB make ... there are times when reputable breeders will place a well-worded ad locally.

With your dog, Kisses ... if the father had no registry and was bred anyway, then yes, your breeder was irresponsible.

With Scoobie, even though both sire and dam were registered, the fact that the breeder was willing to sell them outside the local K-Mart without first getting the appropriate information about your home, your family, how the puppy would be cared for, etc., then yes, again. This breeder would, IMO, be classified as a BYB.