TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › A Curiosity-Induced Question About Children.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

A Curiosity-Induced Question About Children.

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I've saw this phrase somewhere:

"Why have children when there are so many unwanted ones out there who need help?"

Some people I've discussed this phrase with side with it, claiming that anyone who would have children is selfish and irresponsible when there are so many unloved, unwanted, and sometimes homeless children on Earth. A few even went as far as to say that seeing as how spoiled and unruly many people's blood children are turning out these days, an unwanted child would be far more appreciatave and respectful due to their hardships in earlier life.

Others say that they would much rather have their own, and should not be expected to pick up someone else's responsibilities if they became a parent through irresponsible lack of / misuse of birth control or abstinence until they actually were mature enough to handle a child, and that they should have given possible outcomes a thought before they engaged in sexual acts.

What is your opinion on this?
post #2 of 27
I have enought to deal with with 12 legs... aka three fur kids...

I may adopt when I find a man( heheh) and feel I am mature enough to raise kids... I have a immune disorder and wouldnt want to pass that on... so no biological kids for me.//

I do wish people would think before they act but that isnt possible I guess///
post #3 of 27
Well, I guess I agree both ways.

I know Im a confusing person!!
Let me explain.

I think everyone has the right to have their own blood children. For obvious reasons.

But seeing (and also knowing a few) people having child after child (just to fill these voids in their lives) is just heartbreaking to me. There should be a law against that!!! Really!!

I don't think anyone should be allowed to have more than 2 of their own blood children. And if they want more kids... they should have the option to adopt.
Of course this is my opinion.
post #4 of 27
The Earth is overpopulated, so I feel "zero population growth" is the way to go, i.e., no more than 2 children per couple. I'm not in favor of legislation forcing people to limit themselves to one or two children, though; more available birth control and education, as well as pension schemes in developing countries, would help to reduce overpopulation. My sister has four biological children, and one foster child (her s.o.'s nephew). I wonder how many people who regard her as "anti-social" because she has a fairly large family are aware that her brother died childless, and her sister (me) is unable to have children?
Those who say people shouldn't have their own children, but should adopt, appear to have little idea of the bureaucratic and financial hurdles involved, especially in foreign adoptions. Also, with the latter, you don't always know the circumstances. Who is aware that Korea's biggest "export item" in the 1960s was children? My cousin and his wife have two daughters they adopted from China. They spent a great deal of money, and were told that healthy girls were available, or boys with deformities/chronic conditions. They were given no solid information about the girls' backgrounds. Perhaps those girls were "confiscated", because their existence was in violation of China's one-child policy? Or the parents gave them up because they wanted a boy?
Becoming a foster parent is easier, but as that's usually a "temporary" solution for the child, it can be very heartbreaking for the foster parents and children. Perhaps the better answer would be sponsoring a child in his or her home country, so the child is fed properly, clothed, and schooled.
post #5 of 27
I know we are talking about human children here, but read the first post and think of cats instead. We preach all day and night about spay/neuter, about adopting cats from shelters. We condemn people who want their moggy to have "just one litter" to either experience the miracle of birth or because she is "just so special".

Why are humans so much different from cats when we are talking about an overpopulation problem? Honestly, I sure wish it were easier for people to get "spayed". I've known for years and years that I don't want children, but there was no way I could get permanently fixed, and possibly couldn't even now that I'm over 30 since I have zero history of problems.
post #6 of 27
I hear you loud and clear, Heidi, and basically agree.

I think, though, that the essential difference is that even if we allow our kitty to have that one litter, they are HER babies. We are still the adoptive parents. We will always be the adoptive parents where our cats are concerned.

But the question about human kids is about whether to bring into the world a child of our own flesh or to adopt the child of someone else's flesh.

There are countless arguments for both sides. For me, if I were going to have kids, my preference would be to continue my family's line, to experience the growth of a life within me, to bring that life into the world. If that were not possible, and I still wanted to have kids, I would not hesitate to adopt. I know the joy of adopting animals, of welcoming Rob's son into my life, and know that the child I brought into my life by adoption would be no less my child than the one to whom I gave birth.

It's all academic, of course, since I have no intention of getting into child rearing at my stage of life. That's something that wasn't to be, since I didn't meet my soulmate until almost too late for me, and too late for him.

I agree with the concept of zero population growth, given the state of overpopulation of this world. I think it would be most appropriate to allow two natural children per woman, and if a couple has big hearts and the resources to bring up more kids, then they should be adopting. What I'm not comfortable about in that scenario, though, is legislating that and enforcing it. While it is about the good of society, I'm still not happy about any legislation that allows the government into my bedroom, so to speak.
post #7 of 27
It is very difficult to adopt children, not to mention expensive. I would rather have my own child and save the money I would have spent on adoption putting that child through college- yes it is that expensive! I strongly disagree with limiting population through legislation- this isn't nazi Germany. Then again I am strongly opposed to the population control movement and it's bad science. It makes me angry beyond words, but even prior to when it started making me angry beyond belief I had read enough research on the subject to make my stomach churn. I've been to so many conferences put on by various reproductive freedom groups and NGOs (pro-choice groups, not anti-abortion groups) exposing the ZPG movement and read so many books on the subject of population growth and control that I feel fully informed enough to say it's all a bunch of crap, and dehumanizing crap at that. I don't think people should be made to feel guilty for having kids of their own and I don't think they should be made to feel guilty for not having any, or any of their own.
post #8 of 27
I guess I don't see adopting other people's unplanned babies as "picking up their responsiblities" because even though they should have been more careful (or sterilized, ), there is an innocent baby involved now and it's not the baby's fault they were born under such circumstances. Two wrongs don't make a right (meaning just because the biological parent made a wrong choice, we shouldn't let the baby suffer for it) and I think it's wonderful if people adopt. I think it's HORRIBLE to have a baby and then abandon it to die in a dumpster as we have seen too many times, when people are out there to adopt! I would like to have my own child, at least one of my own, and I would also consider adoption if I was in the position to.
post #9 of 27
I think there's too many people on the earth already. I'm in favor of population replacement, not population growth. That being said, I'm not in favor of limiting births by regulation. That was tried in China and it led to all sorts of other problems. On the other hand, we don't need the government to support having more children either by giving tax credits and deductions for as many children as a family wants to have.
post #10 of 27
I think it is very normal and natural for people who want children to first think of having their own. To those who chose adoption first...that`s great too.
Our daughter and son-in-law went though much testing before they found out that they would not be able to concieve without invetro fertialization....but rather than pay out all that money on only a "chance" for a child ,they opted to adopt and have a sure baby in their arms.
They went with partial open adoption and the first little boy, who they went to the hospital to meet him and his mother, and actually named him themselves....the day they went to pick him up his mother changed her mind and decided to keep him. We were all heart broken.
Two weeks afterwards the adoption agency called and said that they had a baby girl (Who`s mother had gone into premature labor on the exact same day that they they did`nt get their baby boy..........and had delivered the following day...at 5 months gestation....our baby Amanda, weighing in at 1 pound 5 ounces. They had`nt told us about her existance until they were sure she might survive)
They met her Mom (who also had another baby just 9 months old) and felt that she would not change her mind, as she just could not handle another one so soon...especailly one who had the potential for having medical problems.)
Amanda is the joy of our lives, 10 years old now...and you`d never know that she was ever so tiny. She is one of the tallest girls in her class. She may have been someone elses responsibility ....but we were more than thrilled to take that responsibility on.....and not only do we love her as if she were our own flesh and blood....but we are actually thankful now that they could`nt have "theri own" child.....or we would`nt have our precious sweet Amanda!
This is their latest family photo. Do you think they look like they could be any happier?
Linda

post #11 of 27
Well. I don't have children and have never wanted them, although at forty I must confess that there have been times I felt wistful about "what might have been" -- I think in a pro-family society like ours, that is only natural.

I don't particularly like children, for one thing. For another, I have never married, and I believe children need two parents. Finally -- well, I'm selfish. LOL I've never wanted to shoulder the responsibility or make the sacrifices necessary to be a mother, so I haven't.

As for other people's choices -- well, I'm sure it's no surprise to anyone that children are often more a happenstance than a choice. It would be nice if people waited to have children until they were financially, emotionally, and practically most well-advantaged to do so, but a lot of them don't. As long as that's the case, there will always be children in need.

To me, arguing about the question of whether Mom and Dad should have thought before procreating is kind of moot. The child isn't at fault, and s/he needs food, clothing, shelter and love to thrive. If Mom and Dad can't provide it -- well, I think the child should be given to people who can.

As for the "right" to have your own children -- as a former family-court employee, I've seen some terrifying illustrations of monstrous people exercising their "right" and scarring a helpless child forever. As far as I'm concerned, there's no "right" to parenthood.
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonOddity042
I've saw this phrase somewhere:

"Why have children when there are so many unwanted ones out there who need help?"
Well, to start with our adoption and foster care system here in the United States needs to be overhauled. It's so expensive to adopt that it's redicious. Plus the hoops you have to jump through. It's nearly as expense as all the fertility treatments that people have. It's a crying shame too because I believe there are families out there that would adopt if the process was easier.

And there are so many people that are disqualified to adopt on top of that. Homosexual? Nope you can't adopt in some states. Single? Nope you can't adopt either. Different color than the child? Nope you can't adopt either. Etc Etc. Etc.

It's enough to drive a person off from the idea of adopting. And if you adopt a foreign child the paperwork is even longer and more tedious although sadly it's not more expensive to adopt overseas.

I know for a fact my parent's looked into it when I was young and didn't qualify because they didn't make enough money. Now that being said, I had everything I wanted growing up and we had more than enough room for another child. It wouldn't have been a strain on their budget to adopt they just didn't meet guidelines at the time.

All that being said, I do think that people need to start taking responsibility for themselves and their families. With all the birth control out there there is no reason for any child to be born unwanted at least not in developed countries. And I researched adoption not too long ago here in the United States, and most of the younger children up for adoption are special needs children which leads me to believe they are born and their birth parents just decide that they don't want to have to deal with the problems.
post #13 of 27
My husband and I do not have kids either. I knew he was almost sterile when I married him. There was only a 1 in a million chance he would be able to have a child. The condition he has that caused the sterility is hereditary and can cause problems in later life. I also have a hereditary disorder that can cause severe problems. A child was born with both disorders would have had a hard life.

We thought about adoption, but we never was able to afford it. Now that we are in our late 40's, early 50's, we a too set in our ways. We can only take kids in small doses. LOL

We consider our kitties our kids. They don't ask for designer shoes or expensive toys. A couple of rattle mice, glitter balls, a cardboard box to play in, a cat tree to climb, treats, food, water and a clean litterbox is all they ask for.

I do have a problem with some girls having baby after baby, with several different dads, living off of welfare so they don't have to work. I have seen them in line at the supermarket, buying all sorts of junkfood and paying with food stamps. No milk, cereal, fruits and veggies except for a tiny amount. I like the way WIC works. They have vouchers for only certain items, milk, cheese, cereal and other healthy stuff.

I don't mean the people that really need the foodstamps or welfare because they have fallen on hard times. These people are what this program was made for. I had a friend that was so proud of herself to be able to get off welfare when her 3 yr old son was diagnosed with cancer. She had to be with him 24/7. She had to go back on welfare. When his cancer was in remission (he is now cancer free ) she went back to work and off welfare.

But I went off topic here. If people can afford to feed, clothe and school their children, I say let them. But I do think that after 2 or 3 natural children, they should consider adoption.

Stepping off the soapbox now and sorry I went on a tangent here... LOL
post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayKittenLove
Well, to start with our adoption and foster care system here in the United States needs to be overhauled. It's so expensive to adopt that it's redicious. Plus the hoops you have to jump through. It's nearly as expense as all the fertility treatments that people have. It's a crying shame too because I believe there are families out there that would adopt if the process was easier.

I was unable to adopt through the state when I was in my mid 30's because my husband (then) was 40, UNLESS we adopted a special needs child or a group! If we had $10,000.00 we could have started the ball rolling to adopt another way. We had a 9 year marriage, but ultimately got divorced. I'm glad now that we didn't have kids involved in a divorce, but it sure would have been nice to give an unwanted child a home and loving parents.
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat

I was unable to adopt through the state when I was in my mid 30's because my husband (then) was 40, UNLESS we adopted a special needs child or a group! If we had $10,000.00 we could have started the ball rolling to adopt another way. We had a 9 year marriage, but ultimately got divorced. I'm glad now that we didn't have kids involved in a divorce, but it sure would have been nice to give an unwanted child a home and loving parents.
i think its ridiculous that because you are over a certain age the only options you have are to adopt a special needs child.
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick_kitten
i think its ridiculous that because you are over a certain age the only options you have are to adopt a special needs child.
Me too. Special needs could be emotional or physical. We did consider it, but felt that since neither of us had ever had children that we might be getting in over our heads. We'll never know if we made the right decision.

Thank God for cats.
post #17 of 27
this is really off colour, but my husband says this whenever he sees a gaggle of brats with one mother.
"It's a Vagina, not a turnstyle"

Honestly, if a mother/father cannot be responsible to care for a(nother) child, that should be enough preventative from creating another one. Sadly it isn't! and my own family demonstrated this behaviour! my cousin had 4 kids to keep her marriage running, and it failed anyway(of course) and now she can't be bothered to care for the kids, the father can't either, and she wants custody so that he has to pay her money. She, however, can't even be bothered to raise them properly.

it makes me sick!

By contrast, my husband's boss and his wife are raising 3 children from 3rd world countries because they couldn't have their own children.

I also think that alternative couples that can't have their own children without a surrogate or sperm donor, should be able to adopt a child, if they can prove that they are capable of raising the child, financially and mentally.


Also I think it's really admirable for people with immune disorders or other issues that prevent them from wanting to pass their genese on to a child to adopt.
post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlecat
this is really off colour, but my husband says this whenever he sees a gaggle of brats with one mother.
"It's a Vagina, not a turnstyle"
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat

I was unable to adopt through the state when I was in my mid 30's because my husband (then) was 40, UNLESS we adopted a special needs child or a group! If we had $10,000.00 we could have started the ball rolling to adopt another way.
That mirrors my experience. I underwent fertility treatments for years, because my in-laws pressured us not to adopt, but to try every avenue to have our "own" children. We realized it was futile when I was 36, and had had six miscarriages, but my husband was 41 at the time, and thus "too old". We weren't offered any special needs children, and foreign adoptions were illegal here at the time.
post #20 of 27
Well, I have 4 of my own children, and feel I have every right to have as many as I can care for. I agree that adoption is great, but it is not for everyone. I think it is as horrible to say that someone can only have a limited number of children as it is to say you must have at least a certain number of kids.

To say that because some people don't care for their kids, no one should have more than 2 is crazy. I can't believe the small minded comments. I am all for people choosing their own path...if you don't want kids, thats fine by me. In fact, I applaud the people who realize and admit they don't want children, rather than having a child because it seemed like the thing to do. I applaud people who adopt a child. But don't condemn me for chosing to have 4 children. I always wanted 4, and hoped for 4, and while I despise the amount of laundry involved, I cherish each child dearly. My brother has 6 children, and they are all very well cared for. They may be dirt poor, but those kids have never gone without a single necessity, nor are they on public assistance.

How many of you came from families with more than 2 children? I am child number 4 of 5. If the two child rule was around when I was concieved, I wouldn't exist! How many of you would?!?
post #21 of 27
Beckiboo -- I'm the fifth of five and I hear what you're saying. We were never what you'd call poor, but if I hadn't been the only girl, I'd have worn a lot of hand-me-downs. LOL (As it was, I *did* wear hand-me-downs of jeans and stuff that was unisex ... I trace my love of comfy old tee shirts back to "big brother" stuff! lmao)

I think having children is admirable, though I never wanted to do it myself. I wish everyone who had children is as committed as you sound.
post #22 of 27
Thanks for your reply, Vibiana

Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonOddity042
I've saw this phrase somewhere:

"Why have children when there are so many unwanted ones out there who need help?"

Some people I've discussed this phrase with side with it, claiming that anyone who would have children is selfish and irresponsible when there are so many unloved, unwanted, and sometimes homeless children on Earth. A few even went as far as to say that seeing as how spoiled and unruly many people's blood children are turning out these days, an unwanted child would be far more appreciatave and respectful due to their hardships in earlier life.
I believe this is very wrong. Do not adopt an older child expecting them to be appreciative or respectful. A child who was possibly drug exposed prenatally, or physically or sexually abused when young has many hurdles to overcome. Compare it to adopting an abused kitty-yes there is the possibility it may adore you and feel grateful, but also the possibility it will always fear you, and only tolerate you.
Abuse really messes with a childs mind and ability to think clearly. People who successfully adopt and raise these children have a special calling, and special skills. While much can be overcome, they should be adopted with the understanding that if they never become that ideal child, you accept and love them unconditionally anyhow. (Just as a birth parent should love and accept their child, even if born with disabilities.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CommonOddity042
Others say that they would much rather have their own, and should not be expected to pick up someone else's responsibilities if they became a parent through irresponsible lack of / misuse of birth control or abstinence until they actually were mature enough to handle a child, and that they should have given possible outcomes a thought before they engaged in sexual acts.

What is your opinion on this?
Adoption should be approached as Stampit's family did-as a blessing for the adoptive family. I don't think it should be thought of as picking up someone else's responsibilities. I do find it admirable to adopt...but just as someone who has their heart set on a bengal kitten should not be pressured to adopt a 5 y/o moggy cat, people should not be pressured into adoption. (And FYI, I love the moggies, so I do not mean this as a slam to adoptive children!) To me, once a child is adopted, it is the same as one born to those parents. They become a beloved member of the family.

What was done differenly 45 years ago? I grew up with a family who adopted 4 babies, and another who adopted one, then gave birth to another. It was not this challenge to lovingly adopt a child and bring them into your home. I think the adoption agencies do need to reconsider how they handle this, so more little ones can find a family.
post #23 of 27
I'm on the fence & all over the board when it comes to this subject.

I have only one child (biological) and the only reason I have her is because, truthfully, the birth control failed. I was NOT trying to get pregnant. Why on earth would I have been trying to get pregnant, when I have Epilepsy, wasn't married, and above all, couldn't afford it?

I don't believe in abortion; so that is why I have a 9 year old daughter.

I had my tubes cauterized 4 years ago after a miscarriage. I wasn't trying to get pregnant then, either. Birth control failed. I saw it as a sign from 'someone' that perhaps I need to just go ahead & become as sterile as a cotton ball.

I agree there are plenty of unwanted kids out there. I meet them all the time. They aren't in foster homes, nor orphans whose parents gave them up or died; they are kids I run into at my school, with their bio-mom & bio-dad right there. Or, single dads who wind up with custody of their kids because the bio-mom gives them up to 'live a new life'. Then, the single dad is overwhelmed, and freaks out, doesn't want the kids, neglects them, beats them, hates them.

By choice, I only have/had one child. I wouldn't have wanted it any other way; she is my world and my life and I love her. I put her above everyone else (much to the chagrin of men who want to date me, but blah on them).

Guess I should add; even though I was totally un-ready and unprepared to have a baby at the age of 24 and in the circumstances I was in, I consider her to be a total blessing and anyone who sees us together won't argue that. If only other parents felt the way I do about their kids as I do mine. There are some seriously bad moms & dads out in this world, whether they wanted the kids or not!
post #24 of 27
All I can say, is I'm doing World Population a big favour, because I'm not having any children.
post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckiboo
Well, I have 4 of my own children, and feel I have every right to have as many as I can care for. I agree that adoption is great, but it is not for everyone. I think it is as horrible to say that someone can only have a limited number of children as it is to say you must have at least a certain number of kids.

To say that because some people don't care for their kids, no one should have more than 2 is crazy. I can't believe the small minded comments. I am all for people choosing their own path...if you don't want kids, thats fine by me. In fact, I applaud the people who realize and admit they don't want children, rather than having a child because it seemed like the thing to do. I applaud people who adopt a child. But don't condemn me for chosing to have 4 children. I always wanted 4, and hoped for 4, and while I despise the amount of laundry involved, I cherish each child dearly. My brother has 6 children, and they are all very well cared for. They may be dirt poor, but those kids have never gone without a single necessity, nor are they on public assistance.

How many of you came from families with more than 2 children? I am child number 4 of 5. If the two child rule was around when I was concieved, I wouldn't exist! How many of you would?!?
I agree. I have 3 kids of my own and they are all a year or less apart I also have a stepson who i have here quite often. There was never at any point in my life that I even considerd not having kids. I wanted four of my own (2 of each lol) but God blessed me with a beautiful girl and 2 very energetic loving boys and I have also been blessed by having Zander in my life too. There have been times when I needed assistance but my children have never wanted for any thiing they actually needed. I was adopted (forunatly it was by my grandparents) they had already had 6 kids then adopted me and my brother. they did not however adopt my sister because they believed that she had a different father. (long story). I knew when I "grew up" that I was going to be a mommy and I don't think it is right for anyone to step up and put limits on my love .I agree that if you can't take care of them dont have them. I also think that adopting a child is a beautiful thing for those that choose to and for those who are not able to have their own. .
post #26 of 27
There are so many well stated points on this thread!
First I am wondering why there is such a double standard in society about the 'selfishness' issue. People with alot of kids are selfish, people who chose not to have kids are selfish.
I'm a childless woman by choice who feels that too many women have too many kids for too many of the wrong reasons. Like the couple that thinks that having a kid will save their marriage..or the girl who gets pregnant to ensnare some uninterested man out of spite & make his life hell by using the child & the courts against him. Now that is selfish.
Personally I have no desire to carry on my bloodline, I think it is better to let it die out. I have no desire to have children, I am smart enough to know that it's not my style.
But raising children well is like having a special talent-if you are good at it, that's wonderful. It doesn't make you selfish. For those of us who know what we don't want in life, we shouldn't feel selfish, either.
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Me-n-my guys
There are so many well stated points on this thread!
First I am wondering why there is such a double standard in society about the 'selfishness' issue. People with alot of kids are selfish, people who chose not to have kids are selfish.
I'm a childless woman by choice who feels that too many women have too many kids for too many of the wrong reasons. Like the couple that thinks that having a kid will save their marriage..or the girl who gets pregnant to ensnare some uninterested man out of spite & make his life hell by using the child & the courts against him. Now that is selfish.
Personally I have no desire to carry on my bloodline, I think it is better to let it die out. I have no desire to have children, I am smart enough to know that it's not my style.
But raising children well is like having a special talent-if you are good at it, that's wonderful. It doesn't make you selfish. For those of us who know what we don't want in life, we shouldn't feel selfish, either.
good post!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › A Curiosity-Induced Question About Children.