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post #31 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntheSticks
Jen, I'll talk to Santa and see what I can do.
And everybody, I appreciate and understand your concerns, but you will just have to believe me when I say all those bad things just aren't happening here. Maybe it's the water. So relaxe and have a beer and stay calm.
Isn't that what everyone says until they run out of luck? "It doesn't happen to me."
post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nebula11
Very well said...

Thank you!
post #33 of 56
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joecool
The reason the people here are upset is that you seem to have little or no regard for the shelter kits that will not get homes if you go ahead with your plans. There are millions of kittens in shelters, it is not neccessary to make more and deprive those already here of life.

Joe,
How do all the Breeders in here feel about that statement?

You have all been so kind, Thank You!
And again Merry Christmas

Later,
inthesticks
post #34 of 56
You know, you are not going to get any sympathy or help from us here because we are all basically completely against what it is that you want to do. Being a breeder is one thing, becoming an expert at a breed and knowing the complete genetic history of a line of cats to reproduce because of your excellent sample of the breed. That is what breeding is. Not taking a kitten from someone else's line and letting it out to mate with which ever male happens to be near by is a whole different story. A breeder that worked so hard to study his/her breed and the work they put in to their cattery over many years, is not going to throw it all away and allow someone random person to backyard breed one of their own. That has to make sense, I don't know how to say it any more clearly. To say there are no disease problems near you is just foolish, diseases are everywhere for animals and people. Those cats who do have it, most of the time do not show a single sign and lead an otherwise normal life.

Just curious if you DID try to call a shelter near you? Do you realize there are dying cats in shelters because of people who are backyard breeding like you are? I just don't seem to understand how you could be ok with that? How you could be okay with allowing your cats to have the risk of catching something horrible or having your kittens killed by roaming toms. I mean if that is a risk you are willing to take then that is really sad. You cannot just straight up disagree with us because it is a known fact that cats are dying all over the world because more and more keep being born when all that needs to be done is a simple routine spay or neuter. There are people like many of us here that work so hard for that and to teach other people the importance of it.

If you really do live "in the sticks" then maybe the problem is not as horible in your immediate area, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Wouldn't you give your child a surgery if it could potentially save his life?

Coming on a site like this and asking a question like you did, you are bound to get overloaded with mini lectures (or long ones like mine). To answer your question "no" only an unethical backyard breeder would sell you a cat unaltered or at least without signing a contract saying that you will alter the cat. That is what breeding is about, the BREEDER is the one to continue a particular generation, not a random purchaser. If you want to seriously get into breeding, then that is different. Study up on the breed and become an expert, develop a cattery and soon you can do that with be respected by all other ethical breeders.

Ok I am done, if we can't convince you otherwise by now, then I am afraid we are not going to be able to. I think we should all just drop it basically because we said all we could. If this person what to put their cats at risk then so be it.

To In The Sticks: this has been an interesting discussion I must say even if most of us all here completely disagree with you (sorry). It has remained civil and that is a good thing. I have seen threads like this get way out of hand
Please continue posting with questions in the future but if you keep asking questions like this then there will probably be problems. Read the rules and believes of this forum. Try posting your question specifically on breeding forums. I am actually curious what breeders have to say.

Merry Christmas to you too!
post #35 of 56
cats arent like people, they dont sit down and plan their families. they are driven by hormones and the females will get pregnant and have babies whether they want them or not.

we have taken cats into our homes and therefore reduced the risks involved with raising a litter. in 'the wild' not every kitten would survive so domestic cats are producing far more offspring than would be natural or healthy. as domestic cats are so well fed and cared for, most every pregnancy will go to long term, something that would not nessicarily happen in the wild and the females body cannot cope with it.

having kittens takea a lot out of a female, not only the birthing process but the feeding and caring for them. a they are un-naturally able to raise the vast majority of their offspring in the safe havens we have created for them their bodies become ravaged by the effects.

a friend i had thought the same as you. once her three female cats had abandoned three or more litters each, (over 20 kittens dead in total, kittens that didnt need to be born) and the males had ran away (i kid you not.) she soon changed her mind.
post #36 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntheSticks
Jen, I'll talk to Santa and see what I can do.
And everybody, I appreciate and understand your concerns, but you will just have to believe me when I say all those bad things just aren't happening here. Maybe it's the water.:
Wow...I want to know where you live so I can send the cats that are under fear of euthanization here to your neck of the woods. I'm sure we could find you SEVERAL Maine Coons/Maine Coon mixes (we would of course alter all of them before they are sent your way). Would you care to provide your state so I can plan to make transport arrangements.

Katie
post #37 of 56
ITS, most breeders care who gets their cats and what they do with them. You will not find an ethical breeder who will sell you an unaltered cat to (1) be outside and roam or (2) not be spayed/neutered.

Most breeders care about each kitten they bring in the world. If you cannot be responsible for the kittens you produce, then you are unethical and a backyard breeder. Responsible breeders have spent many years learning/studying their chosen breed to produce the best they can (type and healthwise). Why should they throw all their hard earned money and time away to a person who doesn't give a damn about the breed and has no intentions of improving the breed?

Like I said before the only people you will find to give you a cat are backyard breeders or kitten mills who don't care what you do with their cats.

If you have the attitude you do regarding spaying/neutering then you are in the wrong business. I don't know a vet or tech that doesn't advocate spaying and neutering!
post #38 of 56
The point is that you are not breeding for the right reasons. The reason to breed is a love for the breed and a hope to improve it. You want to breed for the kittens. You will only make more moggies, instead of helping those in shelters. The difference is that there is no reason to breed moggies, they are already so abundant. However, purebreds are another matter. You do not plan to be a responsible breeder, that much is obvious.

With all due respect,
Wesley

Ps. I have no problems with responsible breeders. Just BYBs. And i have to wonder about a vet who apparantly has no real reason to do what she does.
post #39 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by joecool
And I have to wonder about a vet who apparantly has no real reason to do what she does.

I just read this thread and it saddens me. I can't say anything else that hasn't already been said, except that I agree with everyone....Please reconsider your ideas, for the cats' sakes, if not your own.
post #40 of 56
What do I want for Christmas?

I want $500 so I can finish spaying and neutering my foster kittens from the summer. The rescue I was working with bailed on me and now I am in a panic that the kittens may have litters of their own before I can afford to get them all fixed.

I want loving, forever homes for my foster cats and kittens. It's not their fault they were born into a world where they are "surplus" and unwanted.

I want to not find any dead kittens in alleys and next spring. I want to not have any newborn kittens die in my hands because their mothers went missing and by the time I found them, it was too late.

I want everyone who thinks it would be "fun" for their pet to have a litter, to spend a day in their local shelter and look into the eyes of the wonderful cats and kittens who are killed in that shelter every single day because there are not enough homes for all of them.

I want everyone who thinks spaying or neutering their cat is "optional" to see a cat suffering with closed pyometra, to see kittens dying of exposure and malnutrition, to look into the eyes of the tomcat who has been in vicious fight after vicious fight and is covered with abscesses in varying stages of healing and who has just been diagnosed with FIV.

I wish everyone who thinks "just one litter" is no big deal could meet a cat named Aggie that I knew a couple of years ago. She was the sweetest cat ever...and her first litter was her last. Not because she was subsequently spayed, but because she died two days later from complications relating to the birth.

I want people to realize that cats deserve to be treated like cats - not like humans.

I want people to understand that they probably do not know as much about cats as those who work with them in a professional capacity on a daily basis, and I want people to be humble enough to learn from those who have more knowledge and experience. A veterinary surgery technician (like, um, me) is probably much more knowledgeable about the needs of cats than a human surgery technician.

For Christmas, I want to be able to save just one more precious, innocent life.

Even more than that, I want everyone else to recognize that they too have the power, and the responsibility, to save these lives. Those who spay and neuter their pets help save their lives. Those who allow their pets to breed are responsible for their deaths.

That's what I want Santa to bring me for Christmas.
post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntheSticks
Joe,
How do all the Breeders in here feel about that statement?

You have all been so kind, Thank You!
And again Merry Christmas

Later,
inthesticks
You can't compare yourself to the breeders here on this board. I for one do not have a problem with the statement made to you about contributing to the unwanted pet population. People who have the same mentality as you are the ones that give breeders a bad name. Most of the pet overpopulation problem is because of your mentality...people who buy pets and breed then with no regard to the breed or the breed standard.
post #42 of 56
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...997#post991997

Check that out, it is a wonderful maine coon that is in desperate need of a home and was just posted in the cat rescue forum below.

or here
http://www.mainecoonrescue.com/
post #43 of 56
Yeah, but she probably won't give it to him, knowing it will be outside....
post #44 of 56
I agree, I'd never sell to a person like IntheSticks; and I'd warn my other breeder/friends about this person too.

The original poster needs to find a STUFFED maine coon to sit on the bed - at least the cat wouldn't be roaming outside

Unfortunately this person sooner or later will find a BYB to accomplish what they want to do. Sad.
post #45 of 56
Oh yes good point I was just thinking that it would be spayed or neutered.
post #46 of 56
Thread Starter 
If not, then it is not a Maine Coon. Those are words I read from Anne herself.
post #47 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntheSticks
If not, then it is not a Maine Coon. Those are words I read from Anne herself.
You are correct, there is no way to guarentee pedigree without paperwork and additionally, you would need to have one that has breeding rights in order to have the litter registered. I thought you truly weren't interested however in becoming a true breeder. Most people are quite happy to have a cat that resembles a Maine Coon since they aren't interested in breeding and calling something a "mix" has been an acceptable practice in rescue groups and shelters.

BTW...glad to see you are online...I'm still waiting to find out exactly where you live....because I've got a ton of cats that I can send your way since you don't seem to have any of the issues that most of the USA faces with regards to cats being euthanized (although something tells me you really didn't do any research into that as I recommended).

Katie
post #48 of 56
The "papers" are not necessarily true to know if the cat really is a certain breed (IMO). Spooky is our 14 yr old cornish rex. He's a grand champion, but I no longer have his official "papers" to prove anything. Not that he is going anywhere, but he IS a cornish rex and I could "sell" him as one if need be.

Are you gonna tell me just cause I don't have his papers anymore that he's NOT a cornish rex?

For the most part, shelter cats are 99% mix breeds. But there are a few that are purebred without papers. I know that if I saw a Siamese in the shelter the fit the type seen at shows, it would be a SIAMESE cat - not a maybe siamese cat. Sometimes you can tell if they really are a purebred cat.

I'm sure their are maine coons in shelters without papers. Maybe you could label them as "maine coon cat type" if no papers. And besides, even if a person buys a registered purebred cat and years later turns the cat into a shelter for whatever reason, they certainly will not give the "papers" proving the cat's parentage to the shelter - they probably don't have them anymore.
post #49 of 56
Thread Starter 
It seems alot of you are making assumptions and accusations about me unfairly without knowing me or much about me.
I am not a cat breeder. let alone a "BYB". I have never claimed to be such. I do have 5 cats, all of which were strays and I "saved" them. They are all healthy, happy, and disease free. All the cats I have ever had have been attained this way. I do not believe in cat shelters that murder cats. I will not take a cat to a shelter for that reason. I have saved and found good homes for more cat than most(not all) of you. I do not have or operate a cat shelter. My desire to once in my life to have a pure bred Maine Coon and possibly having a litter or two that I may share with my family and friends does not seem unreasonable to me.
I did not come here to debate the issue of spay/neutering of cats. I have tried to be as nice as I can about it, but since were on the subject, the main argument to spay/neuter is to prevent more stray cats. The other reason is to prevent some health problems that "might" and I emphasize that because that is exactly right, they might occur. It is not a certainty. I prefer to live life as it comes, not try to predict the future. The numbers are in my favor.
Cat breeding is a hobby. I know of no commercial cat breeding operations.
All of the cat breeders I have had the pleasure to meet face to face claim to be hobbist. But I know this, once you charge money you are no longer a hobbist, you are a commercial breeder(like Congo Coon cattery who I noticed has a full page ad in the Febuary 2006 issue of CAT FANCY) or if you are not reporting this income then you are "BYB". I am a Hobbist.
My Vet does promote spay/neuter but not if you plan to breed them of course. If you are saying that I can not participate in this hobby because of what you think you know about me, thats fine, you are intitled to your oppinion. Noone has the right to call themselves the keeper of the Maine Coon breed. Maine Coons were bred in nature. They have been around for hundreds of years without our help. They were bred outside, born outside, and live outside. Thats where they belong. Not couped up in a room breathing stagnant, toxic, indoor air. My cats run and play and catch mice(the perfect cat meal BTW)and do all the things that come naturally them. And they have every opportunity to run away or roam, but they don't. So far I have not contributed to the cat population.
I know I am good to and for cats and thats all that really matters to me.
For those who I have surely offended, I am sorry.
If you want to continue Flogging me, I'll be in the Cat Lounge.

C'ya
inthesticks
post #50 of 56
IMO you still do not understand what we are all getting at. Your "idea" of breeders/breeding cats is not an ethical one. You said so yourself you plan on letting your "maine coon" out to breed to any tom that comes along. THAT IS NOT RESPONSIBLE BREEDING - IT IS BACKYARD BREEDING. Sugar coat it and try to justify what you plan all you want. The bottom line is that it is the wrong approach and you are no better then the BYB's.

If you honestly cared about all the cats you claim to care about, then you would look for a maine coon and be willing to take the cat in to be neutered/spayed and keep the cat INDOORS to be healthy. You will NOT find a respectible maine coon breeder to hand over one of their cats/kittens for you to breed indiscrimately and allow to roam outside!


Why can you not understand what we are saying?
post #51 of 56
For those of you reading- "the perfect cat meal" is not so perfect. If your cat hunts mice you open the cat up to flea-born diseases and parasites, specifically tapeworms. If you have a routine mouser in your barns, it is wise for you to get this cat safely treated for fleas as well as tapeworms through your vet. My barn cats get wormed with drontal on a regular basis (every three months). Your cat can also get a bacterial infection from eating mice, or get into a dead mouse that has been poisoned.

As for the other subject, you are not going to get through to some people. It generally just amuses them if you keep trying.
post #52 of 56
Quote:
And they have every opportunity to run away or roam, but they don't. So far I have not contributed to the cat population.
This is an interesting statement...Are the cats that you are placing into homes subsequently fixed?? If not, then I would argue there is no way that you can make the statement above as those cats may be becoming pregnant or creating litters...thus adding to the population. If you want to live in a fishtank...so be it. But I don't know anyone that would provide you an intact Maine Coon cat to live under the circumstances that you have described.

I also find it fascinating that you continue to avoid providing your location (even a state would do). Ultimately, you are responsible for every kitten, every litter that is born due to the fact that you do not subscribe to spaying/neutering. Just imagine what a better life these cats would live if they had been spayed/neutered...perhaps then they wouldn't have been "strays" in the first place. But what you are doing now is just allowing the cycle to continue...and I bet you will find even more strays...that is the sad reality of not spaying/neutering. More cats=more strays. I am just glad there are many individuals here who do not agree with your stance.

Quote:
since were on the subject, the main argument to spay/neuter is to prevent more stray cats. The other reason is to prevent some health problems that "might" and I emphasize that because that is exactly right, they might occur. It is not a certainty. I prefer to live life as it comes, not try to predict the future. The numbers are in my favor.
I'd like to verify that....please provide your location (state would do) so that I can see whether the numbers are going down or up in your location and whether as you have said the numbers are in your favor. I would expect to see fewer cats entering your shelter...because if you are able to control the numbers without fixing your cats...certainly that would be reflected in the numbers at the shelter.

Katie
post #53 of 56
I think I am alomst getting sick of reading this and yet I keep coming back to this one...I think we are not going to convince this person that what they are ALLOWING to happen is backyard breeding, they are in denial that what they are doing is perfectly ok without looking at the problem as a whole. It is not an issue (or so they think) in their area so it should be of no concern to them at all. That is a sad way to think but I really don't think what we do or say to make this person realize the problems they are causing or what what they are doing is wrong in the eyes of ethical cat owners and breeders, not to mention just plain irresponsible to be allowing your animals to be in that kind of danger. It would be a lot smarter to have a simple spay done to your cat now then take the risk and take the problems as they come because the disease and problems MIGHT not happen.

I also think to come on a board like this that strictly has opposite beliefs of what they are wanting to do is not only stupid but rather rude and almost looking to start an arguement. Maybe that is exactly what you are doing, who knows? I also like how they REFUSE to post where they live even though we have asked QUITE A FEW TIMES. Do you not want us to show you that there are cats dying in shelters right near you? That is fine that you don't believe in shelters that kill cats I think that is horrible too, but each cat you allow into this world means so many more are dying. Not just you, anyone to participated in backyard breeding (YES THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING IF YOUR CATS GO OUTSIDE AND GET PREGNANT BECAUSE YOU WON:T SPAY THEM)

Please thell us what city and state you live in
post #54 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jen
I think I am alomst getting sick of reading this and yet I keep coming back to this one...I think we are not going to convince this person that what they are ALLOWING to happen is backyard breeding, they are in denial that what they are doing is perfectly ok without looking at the problem as a whole. It is not an issue (or so they think) in their area so it should be of no concern to them at all. That is a sad way to think but I really don't think what we do or say to make this person realize the problems they are causing or what what they are doing is wrong in the eyes of ethical cat owners and breeders, not to mention just plain irresponsible to be allowing your animals to be in that kind of danger. It would be a lot smarter to have a simple spay done to your cat now then take the risk and take the problems as they come because the disease and problems MIGHT not happen.

I also think to come on a board like this that strictly has opposite beliefs of what they are wanting to do is not only stupid but rather rude and almost looking to start an arguement. Maybe that is exactly what you are doing, who knows? I also like how they REFUSE to post where they live even though we have asked QUITE A FEW TIMES. Do you not want us to show you that there are cats dying in shelters right near you? That is fine that you don't believe in shelters that kill cats I think that is horrible too, but each cat you allow into this world means so many more are dying. Not just you, anyone to participated in backyard breeding (YES THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DOING IF YOUR CATS GO OUTSIDE AND GET PREGNANT BECAUSE YOU WON:T SPAY THEM)

Please thell us what city and state you live in
I think you hit the nail on the head.
post #55 of 56
I understand different places have different opinions on whether a cat should be indoor or outdoor. In England it is acceptable and even required to have an outdoor garden for your cat to roam in. However, this opinion isn't shared everywhere and is heavily discouraged in the states. I was once against indoor cats but now I have 3 very happy indoor cats. But purebreeds are at danger of being stolen as people are really drawn to their uniqueness. My rescue kitty Autumn once lived in a van. That was the start of her life. Then she lived in a barn where she was very unhappy (she was always being beaten up on by other cats and denied access to food at times). She finally started living in the tack room and hated leaving. She was sooo happy to be inside. Not that all cats are like that but some prefer a comfortable life.

I don't know what to add as everyone has stated everything very well. Just because you haven't had a problem dosen't mean it won't ever happen. Many breeders are scared to death of pyometria. You will have a precious cat one day and the next you won't . Please research further at least this one illness as the odds are extremely high that it will occur as your unspayed cat gets older. As the cat is outdoors it will be even harder for you to notice such an illness before you lose the cat.
post #56 of 56
I have gone rounds with myself in trying to decide whether or not I wanted to waste my time posting to this thread. I think the overall responses have said everything I wanted to say - and the message of spay/neuter is present in each. Thanks to everyone who kept their cool, even though I know some of you really didn't want to. *grin*

inthesticks, the only thing I want to say to you is this:

"TheCatSite.com Forums Rules & Guidelines

... We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below.

TheCatSite.com Forums is dedicated to cat care & welfare ...

2. Please make sure to spay and neuter your cat. Unless you are a professional breeder and your cat is part of a professional breeding program, please educate yourself to the importance of spaying and neutering by the time your cat is 4-6 months old. By spaying and neutering you enhance your cat's quality of life and improve his or her health. You are also proving your love for cats because in acting as a responsible pet owner you are minimizing the problem of cat overpopulation. Spay and Neuter: The Best Thing You Can Do For Cats! Please read this article and don't hesitate to ask for more information in the forums."

Since I agree with Hissy in that we are not going to change this person's mind, the best thing to do, IMO, is to close this thread now.

Again, my thanks to everyone who responded.
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