How hard is it going to be?

inthesticks · Dec 23, 2005

Howdy,

I am wanting to get a Maine Coon. I would like to have a Brown Classic Tabby, No white. That being said, I have been to cat shows to meet "Breeders" but I don't think they wanted to meet me. Needless to say I was no closer to owning a Maine Coon. I have Surfed many of web sites of breeders advertising kittens or soon to be kittens, but after reading through their web site, they have LOTS of rules. I guess the catch is, I want a cat that is not altered I believe the term is. Many of the people who have what I want, they don't seem willing to sell me a cat, at leased one thats not altered. While some people have their own beliefs, I have my own personal experience and beliefs. I do not believe any cat should have any surgery of any kind unless it has a health problem that warrents it. That includes, declawing , spay or neutering, or anything. I work in a major medical center in the surgery department, assisting surgons. I can tell you people do not have surgery unless they have to. I feel the same way for animals.
So, How hard is it going to be to get a Maine Coon that hasen't been altered?
What do you think?

hissy · Dec 23, 2005

I think you will have great difficulty and you should perhaps rearrange your thinking. Cats are not people, no matter how much we wish they were. An intact male has the following tendencies, he mayl spray, he will fight, he may be aggressive even to you. If allowed outside, he will mate several times and be responsible for who knows how many more kittens in the world. Ethical breeders have rules for good reason. It is to prevent more unwanted kittens in the world.

jen · Dec 23, 2005

There are actually health reasons and Hissy can probably say it better then I can but basically, when an unaltered female cat continuously goes into heat, that is not healthy. Spaying before the first heat GREATLY reduces the risk of all kinds of cancers when the cat is older and also prevents Pyometra, not to mention saves your sanity when she constantly goes into heat and meows all day long and pees all over your house. Both those aren't health reasons but I think cancer, being something easily prevented by such a routine surgery as a spay, would be a great health reason to spay your cat.

A good, ethical breeder will not sell you an unaltered cat. If they do they are irresponsible and should not be a breeder in the first place.

Do you think that all the people throughout the world that promote spaying and neutering and all the shelters and SPCAs and rescues that fight for spaying and neutering are all wrong? I mean, you can see that in a great majority of cases cats come out fine at the end. And to top it off, they have about a 90% less chance of getting cancer and Pyometra!

If you had a child that needed surgery for a health reason then you would have it done wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you have it done for a health (and many other reasons) in an animal? That doesn't really make sense. Maybe you just didn't realize how critical it is to a cats health to have it altered.

joecool · Dec 23, 2005

No good breeder will let a cat go unaltered.

xdx · Dec 23, 2005

Originally Posted by joecool

No good breeder will let a cat go unaltered.

I agree completelty they will either be neutered or part of the contract you sign will ensure you get them neutered. So unless you are specifically after a breeding cat you will not find a breeder who will let a Pedigree cat go without that guarentee. There are health reasons as well to get your cat neutered. Heres a link that gives you information on NEUTERING

Dx

inthesticks · Dec 23, 2005

I am not trying to liken cats to people, but the biology of health isn't unique to cats or humans. Diet, exersise, enviornment, pretty much regulates everybody.
I have read all about spaying and neutering with interest, I just haven't found all that to be totally true. I have had several cats, including the cats I presently have, two of which I had from cradle to grave, and they were very old when they finally past away of what my vet called old age. I have a female cat now that is about 20 years old. She has lived outside her entire life and has not sufferd any of the horrible fates I have read about. She is declawed only because 20 years ago I lacked the knowloge to have an oppinion about it, and we were trying to keep her inside. Much later in her life we had her spayed in an attempt to avoid a recurring UTI. It turned out changing her diet worked. We have had two male cats neutered on the belief that it would cause them not to roam, and spray, and fight, and I have found that not to be totally accurate. One cat it totally took all the life out of him. He didn't want to do anything after that , but he did still spray. The other, didn't phase him one bit. Our other boys we haven't touched and their perfect angels. All our cats live outside and they are heathy and happy.
But that is neither here nor there. Everybody is different, but to suggest that a person is irresponsible because they don't have their cats spayed and neutered, isn't totally accurate.
Besides maybe we just want to have a big ol' cuddly cat and maybe later some big ol' cuddly kittens.

Inthesticks

jen · Dec 23, 2005

But why when there are big cuddle cats and kittens dying in shelters? Why let yours reproduce when you could stop it and bring in a shelter cat? When my local shelter has 400 animals when their limit is 150, I do everything I can to try to convince other people, u know?

But ok I mean, it sounds like you are set in what you are doing so I will stop commenting for now. I will agree to disagree. At least you are taking them to a vet and everything. I would beg you not to let them outside though if they aren't going to be spayed (unless I read that wrong and you meant u only let out the neutered ones), especially if you do get a purebred Maine Coon.

What we mean about not altering being irresponsible is if a breeder sells a cat without being done. THAT is what is unethical and irresponsible. I am not a breeder, but I know, no breeder would let that happen if they cared about their cats, it is like, probably on the official rules and regulations of registered cat breeding haha.

Can I suggest going to a local shelter and looking for a close to purebred Maine Coon? Just a suggestion, don't be offended or anything.

jen · Dec 23, 2005

Sorry I forgot I got myself into the breeders forum and I am all preaching the don't breed, adopt...sorry guys, no offense intended, just forgot

hissy · Dec 23, 2005

If you have had a cat living outside for 20 years that is declawed, then I say you really do live in the sticks, either that, or you are just lucky.

I have said all I can say about spaying and neutering, and as Jen says your mind is made up. Sadly, you will become part of a very big problem if someone cannot somehow get through to you about the importance of spaying and neutering.

As for me, I have seen it all, the dead and dying kittens, the females full of infection, the males torn up and bleeding in fights. You betcha, a pregnant momcat lands on my doorstep, unless she is ready to pop the next day, she goes in to be spayed. The males are trapped and neutered, socialized and rehomed, or they stay here with us, or I release them out on our property. None of my males after neutering have the life sapped out of them, and none of them spray-

I wish you luck finding your answers

nebula11 · Dec 23, 2005

Arent certain cancers provented by altering your cats male and female.....??

jen · Dec 23, 2005

Yes, for the most part, a very high percentage. I guess this person doesn't realize that since that would be a pretty important health reason/concern to me! I mean, just ask a vet, a vet is not going to tell you "no there is no danger to not having your cats altered, sure let them roam free outside and multiply, what a great idea, they won't have any problems at all!"

And I agree with Hissy, I have had so many cats altered and there was only once where a change occurred and that was my mean cat became a sweet angel. Turns out she was in pain because of a tiny little cyst in her ovaries. If I hadn't had her spayed I would have just assumed she was a mean cat from the streets and never pet her. I never would have found out about the cysts unless they got worse, or, you know, she died.

hissy · Dec 23, 2005

Max's House says it best

http://maxshouse.com/effects_of_neutering.htm

nebula11 · Dec 23, 2005

I wouldn't worry too much about this situation, unless the original poster finds an unethical breeder......(and all the breeders on TCS are Ethical

)....then this situation will never come to pass.....

As you have all said she has her mind set on this, and detering her from this train of thought is going to be impossible.......Everyone has given great advice, and great information on the subject....what else can we do.....

Lets leave it alone....no reason to get ourselves upset

My only hope is that the original poster reads all the information given, and in the end does whats best for the cats situation......

Thanx

joecool · Dec 23, 2005

Originally Posted by Nebula11

I wouldn't worry too much about this situation, unless the original poster finds an unethical breeder......(and all the breeders on TCS are Ethical

)....then this situation will never come to pass.....

As you have all said she has her mind set on this, and detering her from this train of thought is going to be impossible.......Everyone has given great advice, and great information on the subject....what else can we do.....

Lets leave it alone....no reason to get ourselves upset

My only hope is that the original poster reads all the information given, and in the end does whats best for the cats situation......

Thanx

Good post!!

inthesticks · Dec 24, 2005

I'm sorry, I am not trying to upset anybody. I am just trying to understand why some people can have Maine Coon cats and kittens, and some people can't. Also another point I should clear up, I'm a "he" NOT a "she".
I am married(23 yrs), three kids mostly grown, I am a Surgical Technologist assisting Surgeons operating on people(for 25 yrs now). I know my opinion my be different from yours but it is based in my own person real life experiance and I do have a very good freind who happens to be a veterinarian. And between me and her, our cats seem to live long healthy lives. And the few litters I have had weren't planed but expected.
On the subject of preventative medicine, did you know, there are alot of health problems people could avoid if only we would get fixed at an early age.
Of course we wouldn't be able to have any little copies of ourselves later but we would be healthier. I'm not trying to change anybodies mind but you should respect others knowloge and experience even if it is different from your own,

.
I have to go finish my Christmas shopping, what do you guys want?

Later,
inthesticks

Merry Christmas
Happy New Year
Have a good time
C'ya next year!

tnr1 · Dec 24, 2005

Originally Posted by IntheSticks

I am not trying to liken cats to people, but the biology of health isn't unique to cats or humans. Diet, exersise, enviornment, pretty much regulates everybody.
I have read all about spaying and neutering with interest, I just haven't found all that to be totally true. I have had several cats, including the cats I presently have, two of which I had from cradle to grave, and they were very old when they finally past away of what my vet called old age. I have a female cat now that is about 20 years old. She has lived outside her entire life and has not sufferd any of the horrible fates I have read about. She is declawed only because 20 years ago I lacked the knowloge to have an oppinion about it, and we were trying to keep her inside. Much later in her life we had her spayed in an attempt to avoid a recurring UTI. It turned out changing her diet worked. We have had two male cats neutered on the belief that it would cause them not to roam, and spray, and fight, and I have found that not to be totally accurate. One cat it totally took all the life out of him. He didn't want to do anything after that , but he did still spray. The other, didn't phase him one bit. Our other boys we haven't touched and their perfect angels. All our cats live outside and they are heathy and happy.
But that is neither here nor there. Everybody is different, but to suggest that a person is irresponsible because they don't have their cats spayed and neutered, isn't totally accurate.
Besides maybe we just want to have a big ol' cuddly cat and maybe later some big ol' cuddly kittens.

Inthesticks

It isn't just behavior issue (ie: spraying etc)....an intact cat (male) is likely to roam and impregnant other females (that then becomes an overpopulation issue). There is also the issue of FIV/FELV which is mainly spread by intact males (I wouldn't wish those on any cat).

Katie

tnr1 · Dec 24, 2005

Originally Posted by IntheSticks

I'm sorry, I am not trying to upset anybody. I am just trying to understand why some people can have Maine Coon cats and kittens, and some people can't. Also another point I should clear up, I'm a "he" NOT a "she".
I am married(23 yrs), three kids mostly grown, I am a Surgical Technologist assisting Surgeons operating on people(for 25 yrs now). I know my opinion my be different from yours but it is based in my own person real life experiance and I do have a very good freind who happens to be a veterinarian. And between me and her, our cats seem to live long healthy lives. And the few litters I have had weren't planed but expected.
On the subject of preventative medicine, did you know, there are alot of health problems people could avoid if only we would get fixed at an early age.
Of course we wouldn't be able to have any little copies of ourselves later but we would be healthier. I'm not trying to change anybodies mind but you should respect others knowloge and experience even if it is different from your own,

.
I have to go finish my Christmas shopping, what do you guys want?

Later,
inthesticks

Merry Christmas
Happy New Year
Have a good time
C'ya next year!

I would welcome you to check the euthanization statistics in your state...as far as I know..there isn't a single state in the good ol' USA where cats aren't being euthanized at an alarming rate. If you care so much about the species..you will care about the overpopulation. Would it bother you if one of your cat's kittens ended up at a shelter? Would it bother you at all to know that Petfinder currently lists 1,500 homeless Maine Coon or Maine Coon mixes (and those are just from the shelters that have the ability to list their cats). This isn't a matter where people "can't" own a Maine Coon...but it seems there are a lot that are already out there that need homes.

I used to have the attitude like yourself...couldn't understand all the hoopla about spaying/neutering. I had a friend whose cat got out and had 5 litters and she was able to find them all good homes (or so I thought). It was only when someone dared me to look further at the situation in my state, that I now realize it isn't simply a matter of health with regards to spaying/neutering...it is a matter of life or death. It bothers me that only 4 out of every 10 cats/kittens makes it out of shelters alive in Virginia. That means..that if a cat or kitten is dropped off, it has a 60% chance of being put to sleep. You just don't see the human population faced with that kind of statistic....and to top it off, in my state several counties don't use a needle..they use a gas chamber.

If you would like a Maine Coon...I'm sure you could find one that has been neutered or spayed to add to your family.

Katie

sol · Dec 24, 2005

If you wanna buy an intact purebred cat from a serious breeder you will have to show a serious interest in the breed and breeding. You'll have to show that you have the knowledge it takes to breed cats responsable. It's not about some people being allowed to breed Maine Coons and some not. It's about making sure that the person one sells to is a responsible person and if the buyer is interested in breeding a breeder wanna know that you take breeding seriously. He/she will wanna make sure you won't let the cat out to find a partner on her/his own because that's not serious and ethical breeding.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but every ethical breeder takes the overpopulation problem seriously and don't want to contribute to it. I'm a breeder and I sell all kittens intact (because I don't wanna put kittens through surgery) BUT if the kittens isn't sold to a breeder I make sure that the new owner feels the same way about neutering/spaying as I do (meaning, every cat not meant for breeding should be neutered/spayed) and when the cat has been neutered/spayed the owner get a part of the sum the kitten sum back.

hissy · Dec 24, 2005

Just curious why it always seems to be the male of the species that takes neutering so to heart?

These are cats, not people, they don't "fall in love" take long romantic walks out to the garbage bin with their honey to share a mouse or two. They are driven by hormones to mate, to fight with other males so they can mate again. They are driven by their primal urge to keep procreating going. They will spray during kitten season, they will kill other kittens so the females in their grief will go back into heat and they can mate again, and if kept as a "pet" they will become aggressive.

My suggestion is you contact the Maine Coon Breed specific rescue and adopt a maine that is neutered. You will have a fairly large-sized loving boy to share your life with. He will never get testicular cancers, or get into major knock-down drag out bloody fights. Contact me via email through the site, and I will share with you a gallery of photos I have my vet take for every intact male that comes here with open wounds. It isn't pretty, but it is an eye-opener.

goldenkitty45 · Dec 24, 2005

IMO you are more cruel and inhumane to NOT spay/neuter and to allow your cats outside all the time. No respectable breeder will sell you a cat with your intentions.

You might have just been lucky with the few you've had but that is not the rule - its the minority. There are more benefits to neutering a cat then not neutering one. The others have named just a few.

The only way you'll find what you want is thru a back yard breeder or kitten mill who doesn't give a damn as to who gets their cats and what you do with them.

How hard is it going to be?

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