Hello

yep im new here i came here looking for help and maybe some advise as to what to do. here is our situation first

1. we have 4 cats
3 females and 1 male all fixed with out front claws
2. we have 3 dogs all 3 females 1 fixed, 1 getting fixed and one to young and under weight to have the surgury done(we just rescued her from a shelter)
our house is 1960 square feet.

our problem is 2 of the cats have started marking on every spot the dogs lay IE the dogs beds our beds the couches cloths every thing the 2 cats are the 2 youngest, 1 female and one male both brother and sister is thier anything that we can do to stop this behavior. right now all 4 cats are in the basement where thier food and litter boxes are. i go down every day to see them but we have to do something other than this with them. im hoping somebody might know of something we can do otherwise we will have to adopt out the 2 problem cats.

It might be that seven animals is too much. It might be that the cats don't like the dogs. Is there any way to divide up the territory so that the cats don't have to live with the dogs? I don't really have any other answer.

Originally Posted by Kathylou

It might be that seven animals is too much. It might be that the cats don't like the dogs. Is there any way to divide up the territory so that the cats don't have to live with the dogs? I don't really have any other answer.

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well right now we have the cats in the basment. our house is a tri level with a basment so basically a quad level. with 2 of the dogs they by the nature of thier breed want human contact alot, they love thier people, its these 2 dogs that the 2 cats in question do not like.

i realy dont know what to do other than give away 2 animals im not bias either way dogs or cats ive grown up with both and i love both, but it is the 2 cats that are the ones peeing on every thing so even if we get rid of the 2 dogs im not sure they will stop when there is one more dog left.

is there a cat adoption site or something where i could place a add, or find homes for these 2 cats id like them to go to the same home being they are brother and sister and have grown up together.

you have rescued one of your dogs from a shelter but you are happy to send your cats there or at least get rid of them?

i think you will find it hard to find people to adopt a cat that pees on everything, let alone two.

have you tried to give the cats a safe area away from the dogs? their own private room?

have you tried seeking vetinary advice?

Feliway plug ins are another idea, as is cleaning the areas with enzeme cleaner to remove all traces of the scent of cat pee.

how many litter boxes do you have for your four cats? ideally it should be for or five.

My first question is have the cats been to the vet to make sure they do not have a UTI? Second what type of litter are you using? Cats hate scented litter. If the vet says they are fine, then before you try to rehome them I suggest that you make sure you have 1 litter box per cat plus 1 extra and that you try a litter brand called Cat Attract. It was formulated by a vet to get cats with litter box issues to use their box. If all of this fails go to Pet Finder & see if there is a shelter in your area that will allow you to "Foster" the cats. If not, I believe you can post them on Pet Finder, but please screen carefully!!! and charge something. Even if it's $10 - $20 each. People tend to treat animals better & value them more if they have paid for them.

yep 4 litter boxes, and there is a safe place in the house we put a baby gate up at the top of the stairs leading to the basement where thier food water, and litter boxes are at as well as cat condo's and toys so the dogs dont get at them. the only place the cats are peeing is where the dogs specifically 1 dog lays. IE her bed OUR bed the couches thier favorite corner they lay in random dog beds through out the house. 2 of the dogs pay no attenion to the cats and could care less about them, the other will occasionllay nudge them trying to get them to run so that she can chase them which we stop her imeadiatly.

and no i do not want to bring them to a shelter, if we have to i want to find good homes, no shelter involved at all, i dont want to risk them being put into a bad home or situation, or worse being put down at the shelter that is why i wont bring them to a shelter. i must see the place they would go to in person, and see that they would be well cared for. that is why im asking for advise on what to do. i dont want them to be locked in the basement, i want them all to be free t roam in side the house as they wish, but i cant afford to have them peeing on everything the dogs lay on.

Godzuki: Here's a suggestion - what have you cleaned the pee areas with?
If you have not cleaned them well, the pee smell remains and cats
go there again! This is a very difficult problem and you have my full
sympathy.

Although it is very expensive, consider replacing all the peed upon stuff -
new dog bed, steam clean and treat couch with a good cat pee
breakdown product. Nature's Miracle or one the vet uses, turn mattress and cover with plastic cover, change out/throw away pee'd on bedding (yours
and theirs).

Then, watch the 2 cats behavior.

Are they doing it after being in an altercation with the OTHER cats?
It may have nothing to do with the dogs themselves. They may
simply be trying to establish that the other 2 are top cats or they
are top cats to everyone else in the house (ie dogs and cats).

Sometimes cats will chase eachother out of litter boxes, or attack
when they are going to the box. This causing them to go else where,
ie your nice good smelling couch, dog bed or bed...

Redirected aggression/fear/anxiety can also cause this peeing (cat seeing someone outside gets scared pees inappropriately.)

It may be possible to use behavior
therapy to change the behavior. This takes extreme patience, time, sometimes drugs and consistent (there is the key) effort. If you have children and a busy lifestyle, this may not be possible for you.

Then you would be best to work with a rescue group, keep them
at home and foster, and rehome them when some nice person wants
to adopt them as a PAIR.

Prefereably a non dog home, with a nice
single person with lots of energy to take care of. And of course,
telling the rescue group and adopter up front about the issue is
important.

hey thanks for that input now that is what i was looking for is stuff i hadent though of.

well here is some more info we have replaced all the dog beds, mats and quite alot of other stuff. to remove the pee scent we have 2 steam cleaning vac's we have been using the nature miracle(been buying that stuff by the gallon juggs) we have also found some other stuff called kids & pets, stain and scent remover which we us after the nature miracle. i dont no about the scent but it does a much better job on the stain part. we have cleaned our mattress(normally it doesnt make it to that it get soaked up in the blankets).

as for thier behavior i dont know ive only caught them a few times but it happends much more than a few times. and its only been those 2.

i did notice that there seem to be a power struggle between the largest oldest cat female(fixed) and the younger male(also fixed) they would fight every now and again, it would be the younge male who instigated it. but he never went and peed on stuff after that. he did try to dominate the 1 of the 2 larger dogs but he only does this behavor when she is laying down, in bed with us. he walks up to her and if she looks at him he lays into to her with about 6 swats to the head(no claws but you can hear them hitting) she does nothing, and she will just turn her head away from him, he will then lean into her and walk back and forth along her rubbing up against her purring away.

i though well maybe it was some kinda dominace thing to but the 2 cats were peeing on stuff way before he started with this weird behavoir, and that still doesnt exspain the little cat his sister peeing on thing to.

as far as chasing each other out of the little boxe's i havent seen that happend ever, they seem okay that one or the other is in another box near them while they are going them selves. sorry to ramble on like this.

Godzilla: Well, there is obviously a complicated situation going on. Did the cats come first or the dogs? And when did the peeing start? Have they
always done it?

Now, on to the clean up. You need to get rid of your blankets that were peeded on. Washing them won't cut it - cats and dogs have
incredibly sensitive noses, even washing will leave residue. Also any amonia like smell from detergents or fabric softeners can set them off. Try using
an organic citrus based product (cats don't like citrus scent). Then put a plastic sheeting on top of the bed. That way a) you see the pee b) it can't get to mattress OR new
bedding.

On to the cat hitting dog then purring. You are correct. She is telling
the dog that she's top cat. THEN she's settling in.

The fighting between 2 could be key to it all however. Its hard to explain, but you may want to consult a pet behaviorist. They MAY be able to
tell you why this is happening and offer constructive suggestions on how
to stop it.

But as I wrote earlier - behavior modification for animals must be done
consistently and is alot of work. Many owners just want to throw drugs
at the problem or can't find time and energy to deal with the problem the
way the behaviorist recommends.

If you are willing to try and have the resources - go with a vet recommended pet / feline behaviorist - that's their job title, LOL! Have them do a house visit, show them the problem spots and let them observe the critters.

They can possibly figure out what may be going on in the minds of these little critters that sets them off peeing.

I don't think its strictly dog vs. cat BTW. I figure it may be cat vs cat, but you haven't twigged to or noticed the cat vs cat tensions... (they can
be such sneaky critters!!). Oh, and keep an eye out to make sure the DOGS don't start peeing too!!

If you go the "get rid of cats" route - do the fostering through a rescue group. That means you keep the problem cats in the lower level. Then you bring them once a month to pet fairs and/or they are listed through the rescue group. Beaware this could be a 6 month or 12 month process! If you decided to rehome, don't get discouraged if it takes longer. They will eventually find a home, and if you can keep them in the lower levels great!

To separate them down there - install a pet door in the door to the lower level with electronic locks -
give the cats and dogs that are allowed free roaming of the house electronic
pet "keys" (usually a collar with transponder) to the door. So they can come and go. The other "problem" cats don't get keys and cant go thru door. And if they hang round door - I have some tips on how to work on that too, LOL!!

On the rehoming issue, to encourage you - My Lexi (whom I was going to rehome) took 6 months to find someone who wanted her - then all of a sudden she had 2 potential homes! Of course, by then I'd grown attached and she had managed to integrate with my senior cats, so LOL, I've kept her!!

Oh, and last thing. There are some people on this board who can be very judgemental. They love their animals, just as you do, and they want all animals taken good care of. Unfortunately, they are't tolerant of anything "other" than the "perfect" solution!

Its true, different strokes for different folks. As long as you are responsible, caring and ethical in addressing the needs of the cats and dogs in your home (and don't cop to the "pets are disposable when they don't suit my lifestyle any longer belief), and you are willing to try to address the problems first, and work hard at getting a GOOD home if it comes down to it, bully for you I say!!

hmmm citrus i havent heard of that.

lets see the 2 older cats are both sisters, and both have i guess you could say ruled the roost we then got the 2 younger cats, then 1 dog then another then another. ahh the peeing started just before the 3rd dog. at first we though well maybe we havent been changing the litter enough or maybe they didnt have enough litter, so we rechecked that and it seemed fine, we then put the baby gate up in front of the stairs going to the basement for the cats to have a safe place. the young male cat is the one that decided that i guess he wanted a higher rank in the group.

a little further back i just rememberd when we got the 2 new kittens at the time one cat did not like them the one that has kinda remained the alpha cat, the other took them in and treated them like they were her kittens even letting them nuzzle her to try and get milk she then i guess even though she never gave milk weened them from this practice.

now back to where we were at with the younger male trying to increase his place in the group, he first went after the female that tried to be his momma, she put a quick end to it, and knocked him down and held him there, then left he tried several other times each time gaining some ground, i think she just gave up on him. he then moved on to the (as we call her the fat cat she is the only one that is over weight i dont know why though she eats what the others do) alpha cat or the biggest one of the group he would walk up to her and sit right infront of her as she was sitting, then they would have a stare down, which would lead to them both up on thier back paws standing batting at each other. most of the time the large overweight female would win, by using her weight advanatage and leaning into him. well he kept getting bigger and stronger and eventually could beat her. i never realy got involved in thier fights unless they seemed to get to heated. i know they have to figure out thier place in the pack. we then got molly a english springer spainel who had never seen cats, she has see squirrels but not cats, well she pulled out of my hands and took off after the cats only to have baby the big female turn on her and wack her in the face a few times molly turned and ran back to me shaking, she has since then never approached the cats ever, she even walks out of her way to avoid the cats. we then got sasha a puppy doberman, sasha was instantly curious with the cats we trained her not to attack the cats and to leave them alone. this works most of the time she will however if the cat will run chase them, but thats all she wants to do is chase.

it was after she was around 3 that the peeing started im not sure of anything in paticular that started it, shortly there after we got remi a 13 week old doberman puppy, and she actually seem completly un interested in the cats, she only wants to play with sasha. we kept the blankets, bet each time they were peed on they went through this cycle.

1. put in washer with detergent softner and booster cleaners such as oxi clean and or boron. then let run for half cycle to get everything stired up, then let sit and soak for 24 hours more or less, then cycle restarted, then extra rinse
2. reapeat above only double all detergents and softners
3. same as above only now add bleach to it color safe if it is a colorfull blanket.

this is how we would clean the blankets im not saying we got everything out, but it would be hard for a scent to stay after that.

i havent heard of the electronic doors ill check into that. those sound great, and ill see about the feline behavorist if i can find one near us. right now im laid off so if we can afford it we will budgets tight right now though.

i know what your saying about those who may be less than willing to see what im trying to say. it happends on all boards every where. i came here to see if any other might have a idea what it is i could do and at least you have given me some insight into it, thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Godzilla: Well, definitely seems it was the puppy arrival that started
this all back up. I think the cat doing dominance thingy is interesting -
considering your pup is not interested in them - perhaps even a bit afraid?
Dogs pick up vibes from other dogs, so if one of the dogs is afraid of the cats - the pup may get that vibe and give it off too... and the dominant
aggressive cat senses that and goes into score!!

I would definitely looking into the electronic door with collars.
don't have to give the dogs access just the 2 cats that aren't
a problem.

Sorry to hear about the layoffs. Yeah, behaviorists
would probably cost you. Right now, best thing
is probably to try the electronic pet door idea -
see if segregating the 2 problem cats to the lower
levels works. If you have money then, you can
try the behaviorist next to see what they say.

Good luck! And if you can't keep the 2 "problem"
cats, definitely go with fostering at your place
till you can find new homes. Just like I said
keep in mind that its a full time job, but it CAN
be done!

Originally Posted by opilot

Godzilla: Oh, and last thing. There are some people on this board who can be very judgemental. They love their animals, just as you do, and they want all animals taken good care of. Unfortunately, they are't tolerant of anything "other" than the "perfect" solution!

Its true, different strokes for different folks. As long as you are responsible, caring and ethical in addressing the needs of the cats and dogs in your home (and don't cop to the "pets are disposable when they don't suit my lifestyle any longer belief), and you are willing to try to address the problems first, and work hard at getting a GOOD home if it comes down to it, bully for you I say!!

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I take issue with this comment and here is why. This board is a teaching board. People come here that know hardly anything about how to be a responsible pet owner and the goal of this community is to tell them how. If they stay here, they learn and they grow and in turn they teach. It has nothing to do with be looking for the perfect solution, it has everything to do seeing to the welfare of the cat.

The poster early on has said she is going to rehome two cats if she can't stop this behavior. Is that not treating cats as disposable?

It sounds to me like there are to many animals in one home and territorial disputes will break out. Peeing over other animal's beddings is a dominance behavior. The cats could be clearly overwhelmed by all the scents and in their confusion they put the one scent that settles them down over it all- their pee.

So opilot, it is admirable that you have reached out and helped this poster, but don't put in a negative light the board members here, because they have learned that putting the welfare of their animals first, results in harmony in the home and so they will try to impress that on other people that come here.

Did you ever check with a vet about the possibility of UTI?

I posted the information below earlier and I repeat it here again. I have seen this question about "spraying" many times but I don't recall anyone suggesting Stud Pants.

I don't know if this will help but you may want to consider a pair of Stud Pants for your problem moggie(s). You can make these or you can buy them online. Just go to Google.com and use the key words Cat Stud Pants. There is a lot of information on this subject.

I also agree with many of the comments above that you are probably over crowded and you have serious competition going on. It upsets me to no end when our Little Friends who have trusted us for their well being are up rooted, discarded and put in unfamiliar surroundings. I feel that you want what is best for your Little Friends and this is why you have come to this forum. Maybe Stud Pants can help until everyone settles down.

For hose folks who haven't seen Stud Pants, I got this using the Google search mentioned above from http://www.cat-world.com/StudOveralls.htm

say stud pants ive never heard of those, are they just for male cats, or female to. see our 2 problem cats are the brother and sister pair of the younger 2. how do these work i guess or is it kinda like a cat diaper and it just absorbs it and you would change daily.

well we made the entire basment area just for the cats and cats only that is thier little safe haven area, and it keeps the dog's from eating the kitty patte in the littler box's thus not improving thier dog breath.

as the last poster said yes i do want to do whats best for them that is why i came here for help. i will only rehome them if i have No other alternative.

our house is almost 2000sqft so thier is plenty of room to romp and play. i have only introduced the puppy to the cats a few times i do it 2 to 3 times a week as part of her socializing training. the 2 problem cats didnt want anything to do with her, and the other 2 came up to her and sniffer her face to face, then turned and walked away, they didnt seem to care, she isnt for some reason a excitable pup unless she is playing with one of the older dogs. so sofar around the cats she is pretty timid, she hasnt batted at them to play or anything. ill lookinto that gate we have a small door already put into the basment door but ive had to lock that off since the peeing started.

well again thanks for all the help these suggestions i hope will work, alone or a combination of them.